Amanpour and Company

>> AND IT HAS BEEN A ROUGH ROLLER COAST WE ARE PUBLIC HEALTH AND POLITICAL CRISES, ALL MELDED INTO ONE. OUR NEXT GUESTS BELIEVE THAT SOMETIMES ALL YOU CAN DO TO STAY SANE IS LAUGH. LONG TIME FRIENDS, W. KAMAU BELL AND HARI KONDABOLU WITH THEIR PODCAST, TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY CALL THE DUMPSTER FIRE THAT IS AMERICAN POLITICS, AND THE IMPORTANCE OF EFFECTING CHANGE. >> THANKS. THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US. YOU HAVE THIS NEW PODCAST OUT. YOU'RE BOTH STAND-UP XHEEDIANS, YOU'VE DONE DIFFERENT KINDS OF COMEDY BEFORE. WHAT IS THE IMPETUS ABOUT BRINGING BACK THIS PODCAST THAT YOU USED TO HAVE FOUR YEARS AGO. WHAT DO YOU DO? DO YOU MEET IN A DENNY'S PARKING LOT IN YOUR PARKED CARS AND RECORD THIS SORT OF CLOSE TO EACH OTHER? >> HONESTLY, HARI, NOT MY FRIEND FOR TEN YEARS, THAT'S HOW I'LL IDENTIFY YOU. IF WE LIVED NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER, MAYBE THIS PODCAST WOULDN'T EXIST. A LOT OF THIS PODCAST IS ABOUT TWO FRIENDS CONNECTING. WHEN WE CONNECT, WE TALK ABOUT POLITICS. WE THOUGHT WE WOULD PUT THE PODCAST DOWN FOREVER BUT WITH THE STTHE STATE OF THE WORLD, THERE IS A LOT GOING ON AND WE LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY. IT WAS FANS AND THE PANDEMIC PROVIDING THE TIME THAT REALLY BROUGHT IT BACK. >> I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT KIND OF THE STATE OF POLITICS TODAY. YOU HAVE BEEN COMMENTING ON THIS AS WELL. HEADING INTO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION NOW, IT IS NOT LIKE THERE IS ONE TENT THAT IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY THAT IS THE LEFT, THE PROGRESSIVE WING. THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF CONSTERNATION ON WHAT DIRECTION JOE BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION SHOULD TAKE, AND HOW WE GET THERE. >> THE GRAND PARENTS HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE WAY. I MEAN -- NO OFFENSE TO CHUCK SCHUMER AND DIANE FEINSTEIN AND NANCY PELOSI AND ALL THE OTHER FOLKS IN CHARGE FOR WAY TOO LONG. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER GENERATION COMING UP AND THEY'RE YOUNG IS THAT THEY'RE HUNGRY. AND THEY'RE MOBILIZING. AND IT IS JUST A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS THAT I FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH MODERATE REPUBLICANS THAN THEY DO WITH A SEGMENT OF THEIR BASE, YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR, WOMEN OF COLOR, MEMBERS OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, LIKE IT WAS LIKE THEY'RE MORE COMFORTABLE HANGING OUT AT COCKTAIL PARTIES WITH MODERATE REPUBLICANS AND DOING THE BUSINESS OF WASHINGTON, VERSUS THE BUSINESS OF JUSTICE. AND SO YEAH. I THINK THERE'S A GENERATION. AND I THINK THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO HOLD ON TO WHAT THEY HAVE GETTING IN THE WASTE FUTURE. I REALLY SEE HAPPENING. >> KAMAU, THE COMEBACK IS LOOK, 70, 72 MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FOR THE OTHER GUY. THERE IS STILL A BIG GAP BETWEEN THE TYPE OF AMERICA HARI IS DESCRIBING AND THE AMERICA WE MIGHT HAVE TODAY. >> YEAH. YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT. MAYBE WE SHOULD BE TWO SEPARATE COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP. I THINK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA, WE'RE NEVER AS PROGRESSIVE AS WE THINK WE ARE, WE'RE NEVER AS GOOD AS WE THINK WE ARE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTRY, IT IS ABOUT TRENDING IN A MORE INCLUSIVE DIRECTION. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN AS FAST AS YOU WANT IT TO. WE ARE ALWAYS MOVING IN A MORE PROGRESSIVE, INCLUSIVE, KINDER DIRECTION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTRY, WE'RE A PRETTY LONG COUNTRY. IT'S NOT THAT LONG. YOU CAN SEE IT. EVEN WHEN THINGS AREN'T QUOTE/UNQUOTE POPULAR, SOMETIMES THEY ARE JUST CORRECT. FOR EXAMPLE, MAYOR de BLASIO MADE THE LAW OF THE LAND BEFORE THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS NOT ON BOARD WITH IT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN MARRIAGE EQUALITY SHOULDN'T BE THE LAW OF THE LAND. I BELIEVE IF SLAVE WRITE WERE A LAW WE VOTED ON, I MIGHT NOT BE FREE TO TALK TO YOU RIGHT NOW. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYTHING IS CORRECT. >> THE IDEA THAT EQUALITY AND JUSTICE AND FREEDOM, THOSE AREN'T THINGS THAT YOU CAN TAKE MODERATE OPINIONS ON. EVENTUALLY, LIKE KAMAU WAS SAYING, WE MOVED IN THE DIRECTION OF PROGRESS AND WHAT IS PROGRESSIVE NOW ENDS UP BEING SEEN AS THE STATUS QUO LATER. SO WE'RE JUST SAYING, LET'S GET TOM FASTER AS OPPOSED TO THIS PIECEMEAL JUSTICE AND FREEDOM OVER SEVERAL CENTURIES THAT NONE OF US CAN ENJOY. >> YOU WERE MENTIONING ON THE PODCAST THAT WE'RE ALWAYS ASKING THEM TO QUICKLY ENDORSE THE DOMINANT CANDIDATE. YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHY, WHAT IS IN IT FOR THEM TO DO THAT, WHEN ULTIMATELY THE RESULT IS TO WATER THINGS DOWN. >> IT HANGERED ME TO NO END. >> HOW COME ARE BERNIE SANDERS DIDN'T SUPPORT HILLARY SOON ENOUGH? WHAT IS IN IT FOR THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT? WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD SOLDIERS AND SUPPORT THE CANDIDATE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THEN CANDIDATE GETS ELECTED AND FORGETS US. JOHN KERRY IS CURRENTLY THE CLIMATE ENVOY. LOOK NO OFFENSE TO JOHN KERRY BUT WAS HE THIS BIG ENVIRONMENTALIST ALL THESE YEARS? I DON'T REMEMBER. AL GOVERNOR, AT LEAST, FINE. JOHN KERRY NEVER MADE THIS, THIS WASN'T PART OF WHAT HE WAS USING IT, THIS WASN'T WHAT HE WAS SAYING ON HIS PULPIT. SO IT IS RIDICULOUS THAT ALL THESE ENVIRONMENTALISTS, ALL THESE YOUNG PEOPLE DRIVEN TO SAVE THE PLANET AND YOU APPOINT SOMEONE NO ONE HAS SEEN WORK ON THESE ISSUES. >> DO YOU THINK THAT MAYBE JOE BIDEN HAS JOHN KERRY AND AL GORE ON LIKE SPEED DIAL ON HIS PHONE AND ACTUALLY JUST HIT THE WRONG ONE? >> OH, JOHN, YEAH. OH, MAN. >> HE DOESN'T HAVE THAT ISSUE WITH JOHN EDWARDS. BUT YES. >> ONE OF THE CRITIQUES OF THE LEFT IS THAT THE LEFT CIRCLES THEIR WAGONS AND THEY SHOOT EACH OTHER. THE RIGHT CIRCLES THE WAGONS AND TAKE ALL COMERS. IT IS SUCH A BROAD CONSORTUM. WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE RIGHT HAS, THE LEFT HAS THE DENIES MENU, ALL THINGS FOR ALL PEOPLE OF THE NOT ANY OF THEM TASTY. THE RIGHT HAS THE CHIPOTLE MEN YOU'VE. WE HAVE THESE EIGHT THINGS. IF YOU'RE ONE OF THESE EIGHT THINGS, SHOW UP AND HAVE A GREAT TIME. HOW DO WE RECONCILE THIS? IN THE INTERESTS OF TRYING TO GO FORWARD AS A COUNTRY, AND AS YOU SAID, DON'T COW TOW TO THE MODERATES OR THE EXTREMES ON THE OTHER SIDE. >> I MEAN, IT IS REALLY ABOUT WHAT THE PARTY STANDS FOR. IF YOU START FOR CERTAIN VALUES, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO COMPROMISE? WHEN YOU COMPROMISE VALUES REGARDING JUSTICE AND EQUAL RIGHTS AND HUMAN DIGNITY, YOU'RE SACRIFICING SOMEONE ELSE'S HUMAN RIGHTS AND HUMAN DIGNITY. THAT'S WHERE THE COMPROMISE REALLY LIES. SO TO ME, WHAT DOES THIS PARTY STAND FOR? IF YOU'RE A PARTY THAT REALLY STANDS FOR THESE VALUES, YOU CAN'T CONSTANTLY MODERATE THEM. THEY'RE NOT YOUR RIGHTS TO MODERATE. >> I THINK IT IS, YOU SAID NEW PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF POWER. WE HAD THE KORY BUSH ON THE PODCAST. SHE IS A YOUNG BLACK WOMAN FROM MISSOURI WHO WAS HOMELESS, AN ACTIVIST, LIVED A REALLY HARD LIFE. AND NOW SHE'S A CONGRESS PERSON WHO IS NOW IN A POSITION OF POWER. AND I THINK THE MORE PEOPLE LIKE THAT THAT YOU GET IN THERE, REAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME FROM BEING ACTIVISTS, COME FROM DOING THE WORK, THE MORE THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW WE DO IT CHANGE. A BUNCH OF FIRED UP PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND FEEL RESPONSIBILITY TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS AND NOT RESPONSIBLE TO D.C. >> I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS CONFUSED ABOUT THIS. WHAT? A PERSON OF COLOR OUT OF NOWHERE? THROUGH A TAKING POWER, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? HAVE YOU FORGOT THOSE EIGHT YEARS ALREADY? >> LIKE THEY'RE INTO THIS CLINTON MODEL OF MODERATION GOING TOWARD THE CENTER WHEN YOU HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE FIGURE IN BARACK OBAMA WHO TOTALLY DID NOT DO THAT. ALSO FOR ALL THESE CLAIMS, WHENEVER THERE IS THE DEFUND POLICE, MODERATES LOSE IN CERTAIN COUNTIES. THAT'S NOT WHY YOU LOSE. AOC TALKED ABOUT IT. YOU LOSE BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE SOCIAL MEDIA. YOU'RE NOT DOING WHAT OBAMA DID WITH HIS CAMPAIGN, WHICH WAS GROUND BREAKING IN TERMS OF THE INTERNET. AND YOU'RE STILL DOING THE SAME STUFF YOU DID 20 YEARS AGO. OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE. IF THE REPUBLICANS ARE BEATING YOU WITH TECHNOLOGY, THAT'S YOUR FAULT. >> OKAY. BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WAS RECENTLY TALKING TO PETER ON A SNAP CHAT SHOW. AND HE IS SORT OF MR. MODERATE. HE WAS MAKING COMMENTS. SOME OF THE COMMENTS HE WAS MAKING, FOR EXAMPLE, MESSAGING. HE SAID, IF YOU WANT TO SAY DEFUND POLICE, YOU'LL GET A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN YOUR POINT OF VIEW TO SAY RA, RA. IF YOU JUST REPHRASE IT AS REFORM POLICE, YOU MIGHT GET MORE PEOPLE ON BOARD FOR THIS IDEA WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT NOTION? >> I'LL TAKE THAT ONE. THIS IS A BRANDING ISSUE? >> LET ME TAKE THAT. IT IS BLACK ON BLACK HERE FOR A SECOND. I HEARD THAT. I HEARD OBAMA SAY THAT. I DO BELIEVE THAT HIS PACKAGE WAS MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN HIS REALITY. I THINK HE WAS MORE OF A MODERATE AND LESS OF A MODERATE IN SOME WAYS. I THINK THE PIECE THAT HE'S MISSING, TWO, ONE, AFTER YOU HEAR THE PHRASE DEFUND POLICE, YOU CAN GOOGLE IT AND FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN USING THAT TERM FOR MANY YEARS. HE CAN LEARN ABOUT IT. IF YOU JUST GET CAUGHT UP IN THE CATCH PHRASE, YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN PEOPLE WHO GOT CAUGHT UP IN HOPE AND CHANGE IS THAT DIDN'T LEARN ABOUT IT. SO AS A GUY WHO KNOWS ABOUT MISLEADING PEOPLE, HE SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION. TWO, THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE TRIED REFORM POLICE. WE TRIED LOTS OF WAYS TO SAY POLICE, PLEASE STOP BEATING US AND KILLING US. IT HASN'T WORKED. SO BLACK FOLKS ARE VERY CREATIVE. IF YOU DIDN'T WILL HAVE TO THIS, LISTEN TO THIS. IF YOU DIDN'T RESPECT THE BLUES, HERE'S HIP HOP. WE KEEP ASKING DIFFERENT WAYS FOR POLICE TO DO A BETTER JOB. AND REFORM HAS CERTAINLY FAILED AROUND THIS COUNTRY. EVERY URBAN ENVIRONMENT HAS A NEW POLICE CHIEF EVERY SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS. A NEW POLICE CHIEF -- DO IT DIFFERENTLY. WE'RE WAY PAST REFORM. I WAS REALLY BUMMED OUT BY OBAMA REALIZING THAT REFORM IS AN IDEA THAT HAS NEVER FAILED. >> WITH THAT WE WILL NEVER HAVE BARACK OBAMA ON OUR PODCAST. >> I'M THE ONLY BLACK COMEDIAN IN AMERICA WHO HAS NOT MET BARACK OBAMA. I WONDER WHY. AND TO BE CLEAR, I LIKE OBAMA. I LOVE OBAMA. I RESPECT OBAMA. OBAMA DID THINGS, WHEN I SEE HIM SPEAK LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, THERE IS A PART OF ME THAT WEEPS AND GETS SHAKY. SO THERE IS A RESPECT AND A LOVE FOR THIS MAN BUT ALSO AS IT WAS SAID RECENTLY ON OUR PODCAST, WE STILL GET TO CRITICIZE PEOPLE. >> IF YOU CONTINUE ON TO DO THIS, DOES HUMOR GET EASIER? MORE DIFFICULT? STAY THE SWHAM THE ADMINISTRATION IS SLIGHTLY MORE IN YOUR FAVOR IN. >> I THINK IT GETS EASIER BECAUSE MAYBE IT'S NOT SUCH DESPERATE ANGER. LOOK, I'M ALREADY DEALING WITH A COUNTRY THAT IS ANTI-BLACK. I CAN'T DO ANTI-BLACK AND ANTI-SCIENCE. SO IT IS EASIER TO GET TO WHEN THE SITUATIONS AREN'T SO DIRE BUT HUMOR COMES FROM PAIN. IT IS JUST A DIFFERENT TIME OF HUMOR. >> SATIRE IS BACK. YOU WERE ABLE TO GIVE EXTREME EXAMS OF THINGS. >> KAMAU, ARE YOU IN THE FIFTH SEASON NOW OF UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA IS THIS. >> WE JUST FINISHED OUR FIFTH SEASON AND I'M CURRENTLY FILMING THE SIXTH SEASON BECAUSE I AM NOT AFRAID, APPARENTLY. >> UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA. ALWAYS ENOUGH SPACE FOR DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS. THIS SEASON, IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER. >> NOW LOOKING BACK OVER THE SEASONS, WHAT STUCK OUT TO YOU? >> THE IT IS PROGRESSIVE, WE WANT GOOD SCHOOLS FOR OUR KIDS. WE WANT LIVING WAGES. WE WANT HEALTH CARE, AFFORDABLE FREEDOM. WE WANT GOOD STREETS, WE WANT THIS. TO SAY HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOUR LIFE? I TALKED TO GANG MEMBERS, I TALKED TO COAL MINERS IN APPALACHIAN. THEY ALL WANT THE SAME THINGS. WE HAVE GOTTEN DISTRACTED BY A TON OF MISINFORMATION AND LIES. SO I THINK YOU CAN CUT THROUGH ALL THE LIES AND DISINFORMATION AND THE TEAM SPORT AND GO, WHAT DO YOU WANT? WE ALL WANT THE SAME THINGS. >> YOU KNOW, YOU MADE A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE SIMPSONS. >> A CARTOON, A WHITE GUY. A WHITE GUY DOING AN IMPRESSION OF A WHITE GUY MAKING FUN OF MY FATHER. >> AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE READY FOR IT, BUT THE KIND OF VITRIOL AND HATRED THAT YOU GOT ONLINE. I THINK ANYBODY FOLLOWING YOUR SOCIAL FEED SAW THIS. WHAT DID THAT DO TO YOU? IT SEEMS FOR MONTHS, AND THERE HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE ON THE PROGRAM. THERE IS NO LONGER A VOICE. THE CHARACTER MIGHT NOT BE BACK. OTHER WHITE ACTORS WHO SAID I WILL NO LOCKER BE VOICING OF CO. AS YOU SAW THE RESPONSES, HOW DID YOU MAKE SENSE OF IT? >> IT IS WHAT I GET FOR GIVING HUMAN BEINGS THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT. IT SERVES ME RIGHT. I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE THIS DOCUMENTARY AND HAVE A CONVERSATION THOUGHTFULLY ABOUT REPRESENTATION AND RACE AND THIS HAZING PROCESS THAT ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR SEEM TO GO THROUGH THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF AMERICA. WHERE WE ARE AS A SOCIETY NOW COMPARED TO WHEN THE SIMPSONS CAME OUT. INSTEAD, IT WAS DEATH TO ME. LIKE, THAT WASN'T PART OF DOCUMENTARY. AND IT SERVES ME RIGHT. I HAD THIS LITTLE HOPE THAT PERHAPS WE WOULD HAVE A DISCUSSION. WE WOULD BE IN A NATIONAL SEMINAR CLASS. JUST CHIPPING AWAY AND CONTRIBUTING TO EACH OTHER'S POINTS. AND IT SERVES ME RIGHT. SO NO. I DIDN'T BRACE FOR IT. I KNEW THERE WOULD BE SOME PUSH BACK BUT NOT GLOBALLY, CONSIDERING THE MOVIE WAS ONLY AVAILABLE IN ONE OR TWO COUNTRIES. BUT IT TELLS YOU, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE SUBSTANCE DOES NOT MATTER. IT FEELS LIKE THERE IS A TEMPLATE FOR WHAT YOU'RE ANGRY FOR THIS WEEK ON THE INTERNET. AND I GOT PLUGGED IN FOR A COUPLE YEARS. >> NOT JUST FOR A WEEK. >> THERE IS STUFF THAT MAYBE HE WOULDN'T SAY OR COULDN'T SAY. THE SHOW HAS MADE CHANGES. THEY HAVE NOT INVITED HIM TO THE TABLE TO SAY, HEY, YOU ARE RIGHT. IN FACT, THE PRODUCER, WHO HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE EARLY DAYS, HAS TROLLED HIM ON TWITTER A COUPLE TIMES. HANK AZARIA HAS NEVER REACHED OUT TO SAY, THOUGH WHAT DID YOU HURT, IT LED ME TO DO THIS. EVERY TIME YOU TALK ABOUT HIM LEAVING THE SIMPSONS, I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. THIS IS ONCE AGAIN, WHITE PEOPLE TRYING TO GET CREDIT FOR A BROWN PERSON'S WORK. THEY ARE ACTING LIKE WE CAME TO THE POINT OF CHANGING THIS. IT IS ALL THROUGH HIM. AND I THINK IT IS TOTALLY DESPICABLE ON THE PART OF THIS LIKE IT IS A DECISION THEY CAME TO BECAUSE THEY WERE ENLIGHTENED. >> I'M NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT. I'M NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING YOU SAY. >> THEY NEED FRIENDS LIKE KAMAU. >> EVERYBODY SHOULD FIND THEIR KAMAU. WE'RE PRETTY GOOD FRIENDS. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.