Amanpour and Company

>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> A SUPREME COURT RULING ALLOWS THE WHITE HOUSE TO CONTINUE DEPORTATIONS.

I ASK CONSERVATIVE LAWYER GREGG NUNZIATA WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE RULE OF LAW.

>> THEN, NEW VIDEO DEBUNKS ISRAELI CLAIMS ABOUT THE DEADLIEST ATTACK ON EMERGENCY RESPONDERS SINCE THE START OF THE GAZA WAR.

MEANWHILE, HUMANITARIAN WORKERS ARE UNDER THREAT ALL ACROSS THE WORLD.

WE HEAR FROM NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL HEAD JAN EGELAND WHO'S JUST RETURNED FROM THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO.

AND LATER -- >> VIRUSES DON'T NEED PASSPORTS.

VIRUSES DON'T OBEY BORDERS.

>> WHAT DRAMATIC CUTS TO GOVERNMENT HEALTH SERVICES MEAN FOR AMERICA.

HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS TO FORMER CDC DIRECTOR TOM FRIEDEN.

> >> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

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THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

TWO SUPREME COURT RULINGS WILL IMPACT CRITICAL TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DEPORTATION CASES.

FIRST IN A 5-4 VOTE THE COURT ALLOWED THE WHITE HOUSE TO CONTINUE USING THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT, WHICH GIVES THEM SWEEPING WARTIME AUTHORITY TO RAPIDLY DEPORT ALLEGED GANG MEMBERS.

NOW, THE RULING ALSO ASSERTS ANYONE DEPORTED UNDER THE ACT MUST BE ALLOWED DUE PROCESS TO CONTEST THEIR REMOVAL.

DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF STEVEN MILLER CLAIMED VICTORY ON FOX NEWS LAST NIGHT.

>> THIS WAS A HUGE, I MEAN A MONUMENTAL VICTORY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IT MEANS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, FBI, DEA, ATF, THE U. S. MARTIAL SERVICE, CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION, BORDER PATROL, AND IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOM ENFORCEMENT NOW HAVE MAXIMUM AUTHORITY TO FIND AND REMOVE ILLEGAL ALIEN GANG MEMBERS FROM VENEZUELA THAT HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR SO MUCH MISERY IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> IN A SECOND CASE, CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS TEMPORARILY EXTENDED A DEADLINE FOR RETURNING MARYLAND FATHER KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA TO THE UNITED STATES.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CONCEDES ABREGO GARCIA WAS DEPORTED BECAUSE OF ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR, BUT HIS CASE HAS BECOME EMBLEMATIC OF WHITE HOUSE WILLINGNESS TO DEFY THE COURTS AND TO DEPORT IMMIGRANTS WITHOUT A HEARING OR REVIEW.

SO WHAT ARE THE WIDER IMPLICATIONS OF THESE RULINGS AND THE WHITE HOUSE ATTEMPTS TO CIRCUMVENT THE RULE OF LAW?

GREGG NUNZIATA IS A VETERAN OF THE CONSERVATIVE LEGAL MOVEMENT.

HE'S A FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL AND WORKED AS POLICY ADVISOR TO SENATOR MARCO RUBIO.

GREGG NOW JOINS US FROM WASHINGTON.

GREGG, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE SHOW.

SO THE SUPREME COURT RULED THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION CAN CONTINUE TO USE THE ALIENS ENEMY ACT BUT A JUDICIAL REVIEW IS REQUIRED.

HERE IS HOW THE PRESIDENT RESPONDED ON SOCIAL MEDIA TO THE DECISION.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS UPHELD THE RULE OF LAW IN OUR NATION BY ALLOWING A PRESIDENT, WHOEVER THAT MAY BE, TO BE ABLE TO SECURE OUR BORDERS AND PROTECT OUR FAMILIES, OUR COUNTRY, ITSELF.

A GREAT DAY FOR JUSTICE IN AMERICA.

IS HE INTERPRETING THIS RULING THE WAY THE SUPREME COURT INTERPRETED IT AND CAME DOWN WITH IT?

>> NO.

THE PRESIDENT AND THE WHITE HOUSE ARE VASTLY OVERSPINNING THIS CASE, AND THEY ARE TRYING TO CLAIM A WIN WHERE, IN FACT, THE COURT UNANIMOUSLY RULED AGAINST THE CORE CONTENTIONS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION AND REALLY VINDICATED ITS STRONGEST CRITICS ON THESE ISSUES.

ALL THE COURT SAID LAST NIGHT WAS THAT THESE CASES NEED TO BE BROUGHT INDIVIDUALLY IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THE DETAINEES ARE BEING HELD, NOT AS A CLASS IN WASHINGTON.

THAT'S IT.

THAT WAS THE PROCEDURAL DECISION.

THE CASE GOES FORWARD.

BUT IN MAKING THAT DECISION, MULTIPLE JUSTICES WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO WRITE EXPLICITLY THAT ALL NINE OF THEM AGREED THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS DESERVED DUE PROCESS, AND REALLY IMPORTANTLY NOT JUST DUE PROCESS BUT DUE PROCESS WITH NOTICE AND A MEANINGFUL OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD IN COURT.

AND THAT IS WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION WAS TRYING TO EVADE AT THE OUTSET, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO CONTEND WITH NOW AS THESE CASES MOVE FORWARD.

SO, NO IT'S NOT THE VICTORY THEY'RE PORTRAYING IT AT.

IT'S A NARROW VICTY AND A JURISDICTIONAL QUESTION.

I JUST WANT TO SAY I KNOW THIS CASE IS ABOUT A FEW HUNDRED PEOPLE.

IT'S ABOUT FOREIGNERS WHO MAY BE MEMBERS OF CRIMINAL GANGS, AND AMERICANS MAY NOT KNOW WHY THEY SHOULD CARE.

BUT THE ISSUES HERE THAT THE COURT WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT ARE REALLY DEEPER, GOES TO THE HEART OF WHO WE ARE AMERICANS.

IT'S ABOUT THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, THE RULE OF LAW, AND DUE PROCESS.

AND THE COURT UNANIMOUSLY UPHELD THAT LAST NIGHT.

AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHERE IT GOES FROM HERE.

>> TO THE NOTE OF HABEAS CORPUS ALL NINE JUSTICES THAT WAS WRITTEN BY ALL NINE AND JUSTICE CAV NOU.

ALL DETAINEES MUST RECEIVE ADVANCED NOTICE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THEIR DEPORTATION BEFORE THEY CAN BE REMOVED.

HE WROTE IN CONCURRENCY WITH OTHERS THE SPLIT AMONG THE COURT WAS OVER WHERE AND HOW THIS SHOULD HAPPEN, AS YOU NOTED.

SO HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THIS ASSERTION AND THE RIGHT AS HIGHLIGHTED BY JUSTICE KAVANAUGH TO HABEAS CORPUS?

>> I THINK THIS IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT PARTICULARLY GIVEN WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN PLAINLY TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS TO DEPORT PEOPLE IN THE COVER OF DARKNESS WITHOUT NOTICE TO COURTS AND TO PUT THEM IN THEIR VIEW BEYOND THE REACH OF AMERICAN LAW, WITHOUT ANY MEANINGFUL REVIEW.

THE COURT HAS NOW SAID THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE HEARD AND TO BE HEARD ON MULTIPLE LEVELS.

THEY MAY CHALLENGE THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT TO BEGIN WITH.

SECOND, THEY MAY CHALLENGE HOW THAT ACT IS BEING APPLIED.

IS THIS EVEN A WAR?

I MEAN ARE WE AT WAR WITH THE GANG OF VENEZUELA?

DO AMERICANS KNOW THAT?

THE COURT MAY BE ASKED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

AND THEN, FINALLY, IF THE LAW IS CONSTITUTIONAL, IF WE ARE AT WAR, ARE THESE INDIVIDUALS BEING REMOVED ACTUALLY MEMBERS OF THIS GANG?

ARE THEY ACTUALLY ALIEN ENEMIES?

ARE THEY ACTUALLY OF THE APPROPRIATE AGE?

ALL OF THAT WILL HAVE TO BE LITIGATED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, AND THE ADMINISTRATION WILL NOW HAVE TO DEFEND HUNDREDS OF THESE CASES IN THE FEDERAL COURTS.

>> ARE WE GEARING UP FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS BETWEEN THREE --I GUESS NOW TWO COEQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT HERE?

AND THAT IS, OBVIOUSLY, THE ADMINISTRATION ITSELF VERSUS THE COURTS?

BECAUSE IT DOES APPEAR THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO SAY THE COURTS HAVE NO RIGHT TO DIRECT NATIONAL SECURITY POLICY OVER THE UNITED STATES IN USING THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.

I MEAN, ULTIMATELY, THE FACT THE SUPREME COURT TOOK UP THIS CASE IS ONE POINT TO BE MADE, BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THEIR DECISION WILL COME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT THEY, IN FACT, ARE USING IT CONSTITUTIONALLY GIVEN THE MAKE-UP OF THE COURT?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

I'M HOPEFUL BY SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID IN THOSE DECISIONS LAST NIGHT.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE THAT THIS COURT HAS A GENERALLY PROTECTIVE VIEW OR STRONG VIEW OF EXECUTIVE POWER, AND EXECUTIVE POWER IS AT ITS STRONGEST POINT UNDER OUR LAWS WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS DEALING WITH NATIONAL SECURITY AND INTERNATIONAL ISSUES.

I THINK THAT'S WHY THE PRESIDENT WHO HAS BEEN CERTAINLY TRYING TO WEAKEN THE COURT'S ABILITY TO PLAY THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE, HAS REALLY STAKED OUT A LOT OF CONFLICTS THAT HE'S STRUCTURED AT LEAST OR PRESENTED AS NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES RATHER THAN, LIKE, HERE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE.

SO HE'S TRYING TO CONFRONT THE COURTS ON THE STRONGEST GROUND HE HAS, BUT I DON'T THINK THE JUDICIARY IS GOING TO ALLOW THE PRESIDENT AND HIS ADMINISTRATION TO DISAPPEAR PEOPLE TO LATIN AMERICA BY SIMPLY MUTTERING WORDS OR ISSUING A PROCLAMATION THAT THE NATION IS AT WAR.

I MEAN, THIS REALLY DOES CHALLENGE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AND VALUES THAT WE HAVE AS AMERICANS, AND I THINK THE COURT WILL DRAW SOME APPROPRIATE LINES.

>> SO HOW MUCH SHOULD WE READ INTO JOHN ROBERTS WRITING DECISION HERE TO AT LEAST TEMPORARILY DELAY THE RETURN, WHICH WAS THE DEADLINE WAS LAST NIGHT AT MIDNIGHT FOR ABREGO GARCIA FROM EL SALVADOR?

>> I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD READ ANYTHING INTO THAT YET.

I THINK THE COURT IS LETTING THE STATUS QUO STAND WHILE IT MORE FULLY CONSIDERS ITS DECISION.

BUT THIS IS A MORE IMPORTANT RELATED CASE.

THEY SAID LAST NIGHT THAT DEPORTEES HAVE THE RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS.

NOW, THIS GENTLEMAN, MR. GARCIA, IS BEYOND OUR BORDERS IN A PRISON IN LATIN AMERICA.

HE WAS REMOVED.

AS THE ADMINISTRATION ADMITS NOW BY ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR --THEY'RE NOT CONCEDING HE OUGHT NOT BE REMOVED, BUT THEY ARE CONCEDING HE HAD A COURT ORDER WHICH PROTECTED HIS PRESENCE HERE AND THEY REMOVED HIM NOT WITHSTANDING THAT COURT ORDER.

IF DUE PROCESS IS TO BE MEANINGFUL, IT NEEDS --THE ADMINISTRATION --THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T HAVE A BACKDOOR AROUND IT BY SIMPLY REMOVING PEOPLE AND THEN CLAIMING THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I THINK THE COURT IS GOING TO SERIOUSLY LOOK AT THIS CASE, AND I THINK IT WILL NOT AGREE TO A RULING THAT EFFECTIVELY ALLOWS AN ADMINISTRATION A PATHWAY AROUND JUDICIAL REVIEW.

>> CAN I ASK YOU QUICKLY BECAUSE JUSTICE JACKSON WROTE SEPARATELY IN THE FIRST RULING THAT WE TALK ABOUT, THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT, THAT SHE --SHE WAS VERY CRITICAL OF THE COURT'S DECISION TO CONTINUE TO ACT ON THE EMERGENCY DOCKET WHERE CASES ARE TYPICALLY HEARD SO QUICKLY, AND THEY'RE NOT LITIGATED WITH ORAL ARGUMENTS IN A FULL BRIEFING.

DOES SHE HAVE A VALID POINT HERE?

>> SHE ABSOLUTELY HAS A VALID POINT.

THESE ARE SOME REALLY WEIGHTY ISSUES THAT INVOLVE DIFFICULT LEGAL QUESTIONS THAT THE COURT NEEDS TO CONSIDER DEEPLY AND CAREFULLY DRAW SOME LINES AROUND HOW THESE THINGS SHOULD BE HANDLED IN THE FUTURE.

SO THOSE KINDS OF DECISIONS YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULLY BRIEFED.

YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ATTORNEYS TO ARGUE THEM IN COURT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WHILE SHE DOES HAVE A POINT, THERE IS A LOT HAPPENING.

AS YOU KNOW, TRYING TO FOLLOW THE NEWS EVERY DAY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS MOVING REALLY AGGRESSIVELY, AND TRYING TO CHALLENGE THE STATUS QUO AND CHALLENGE EXISTING PRECEDENT ON MULTIPLE FRONTS.

REAL PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE BEING AFFECTED DRAMATICALLY IN REALTIME, AND SO THE COURT DOES NOT ALWAYS HAVE THE LUXURY TO WAIT A YEAR OR MORE TO FULLY LITIGATE THESE MATTERS.

SO THESE ARE INTENTIONS THAT ARE ALWAYS BEFORE THE COURT, SO I UNDERSTAND KIND OF JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR'S CONCERN THIS IS MOVING TOO QUICKLY, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THE MAJORITY FELT THE NEED TO ACT ON AN EXPEDITED BASIS HERE.

>> GREGG NUNZIATA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BREAKING IT DOWN.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> >> IT HAS BEEN A MONTH SINCE ISRAEL CUT OFF AID TO THE GAZA STRIP, AND AID AGENCIES SAY CONDITIONS THERE HAVE DETERIORATED DANGEROUSLY IN THAT TIME.

HUNGER IS SPREADING, WATER IS SCARCE, AND ISRAELI MILITARY OPERATIONS IS A CONSTANT THREAT TO THE PEOPLE THERE.

ONE SUCH ATTACK IN MARCH CAUSED THE DEATH OF MORE THAN A DOZEN PALESTINIAN EMERGENCY WORKS.

NOW NEW VIDEO EVIDENCE CASTS DOUBT ON ISRAELI CLAIMS ABOUT THE KILLINGS.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTS FURTHER.

AND A WARNING, SOME OF THE VIDEO YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE IS DISTURBING.

>> EMERGENCY LIGHTS FLASHING IN THE PRE-DAWN SKY.

A CONVOY OF AMBULANCES AND A FIRE TRUCK PULL UP TO THE SCENE OF AN ISRAELI ATTACK.

PALESTINIAN PARAMEDICS AND CIVIL DEFENSE RESPONDERS GET OUT OF THEIR VEHICLES WHEN SUDDENLY -- [ GUNSHOTS ] AMID A HAIL OF GUNFIRE, EMERGENCY RESPONDERS DROP TO THE GROUND.

A PARAMEDIC WHO WAS FILMING BEGINS TO PRAY.

IT IS THE SINGLE DEADLIEST ATTACK ON EMERGENCY RESPONDERS IN GAZA DURING THE WAR, KILLING 15.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAD ACKNOWLEDGED ITS SOLDIERS ATTACKED THIS CONVOY OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES, BUT THIS VIDEO DEBUNKED THEIR CLAIM THAT THE AMBULANCES WERE ADVANCING SUSPICIOUSLY AND WITHOUT EMERGENCY LIGHTS.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS IT IS REEXAMINING THE INCIDENT.

NOW NEW TESTIMONY FROM A SURVIVOR FURTHER UNDERMINING THE ISRAELI NARRATIVE.

PARAMEDIC MUNTHER AHBED SAYS ISRAELI TROOPS DIDN'T JUST OPEN FIRE ON ONE AMBULANCE CONVOY.

ABOUT AN HOUR EARLIER HIS AMBULANCE WAS ALSO ATTACKED.

THEY OPENED FIRE DIRECTLY ON US IN THE VEHICLE, MUNTHER SAYS.

I SURVIVED BY LYING DOWN IN THE BACK OF THE VEHICLE.

IF I HAD STOOD UP, I WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED.

HE LISTENED AS TWO OF HIS COLLEAGUES DREW THEIR LAST BREATHS.

ISRAELI TROOPS THEN DETAINED MUNTHER.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS DESCRIBED THAT FIRST ATTACK AS TARGETING A HAMAS VEHICLE, KILLING TWO HAMAS MEMBERS AND KILLING A THIRD.

ISRAELI OFFICIALS SAID THEY WERE NOT UNIFORMED PARAMEDICS, BUT THUNTHER SAID THEY WERE DRIVING A WELL LIT AMBULANCE AND WERE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS.

AS ISRAELI TROOPS QUESTIONED MUNTHER, OTHER MEDICS WERE DISPATCHED TO LOOK FOR HIM.

THE PALESTINIAN RED CRESCENT SOCIETY SAYS THIS IS MUNTHER'S AMBULANCE, LIGHTS EXTINGUISHED AFTER COMING UNDER FIRE.

NO COMMENT FROM ISRAEL MILITARY.

MUNTHER COMMENTED AFTER ARRIVING.

I WAS LYING FACE DOWN A SOLDIER HAD AN M- 16 RIFLE PRESSING ON MY BACK WITH MY FACE TOWARDS THE STREET.

THERE WERE DEFENSE VEHICLES AND AMBULANCES PARKED NEARBY.

THEY OPENED FIRE DIRECTLY ON THEM.

THERE ARE SOLDIERS, THERE ARE SOLDIERS, ONE PARAMEDIC SAYS IN THIS RECORDING OF HIS FINAL CALL.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY BURIED THE BODIES IN THIS SHALLOW GRAVE.

THEY SAY IT WAS TO PREVENT THE BODIES FROM BEING SCAVENGED.

THE U. N. ONLY REACHED THE SITE A WEEK LATER.

THIS PARAMEDIC NEARLY ENDED UP IN THAT GRAVE, BUT HE CALLED IN SICK THAT DAY AND HIS SON, MUHAMMAD TOOK HIS PLACE.

HE SOON CALLED HIM ONE LAST TIME.

HELP ME, DAD, HELP ME.

I ASKED HIM WHAT WAS WRONG, AND HE SAID WE WERE TARGETED BY THE ISRAELIS, AND THEY ARE NOW SHOOTING AT US DIRECTLY, THEN THE CALL DISCONNECTED.

A WEEK LATER HIS FATHER IDENTIFIED HIS BODY.

THEY WOULDN'T LET ME WASH THE DIRT FROM HIS FACE.

I DON'T KNOW WHY.

HE HAD A WOUND ON HIS MOUTH HERE, ANOTHER ON HIS FOREHEAD, AND ANOTHER ON HIS BACK, ALL FROM GUNFIRE, HIS FATHER SAYS.

GOD BLESS HIS SOUL.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN, JERUSALEM.

>> THAT WAS JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTING FOR US.

WELL, GAZA IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE WHERE HUMANEITARIAN WORKERS FACE THREATS BOTH NATURAL AND MAN MAID.

AND THE GUTTING OF AID FROM THE U. S. MEANS WORKERS FROM MYANMAR TO HAITI ARE FORCED TO SHUTDOWN CRITICAL SERVICES.

NOW IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO, MILLIONS FACE DESTITUTION AS THE ESCALATION AND VIOLENT CONFLICT FORCES THEM TO FLEE ACROSS BORDERS.

JAN EGELAND IS JUST BACK FROM IT DRC AND NO STRANGER TO CONFLICT ZONES.

EGELAND SAYS HE WAS SHOCKED BY CONDITIONS THERE.

EGELAND, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

SO LET ME ASK YOU.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS DISPLACED.

THOUSANDS THUS FAR HAVE BEEN KILLED.

TELL US WHAT YOU SAW ON YOUR VISIT.

>> WHEN I CAME TO GOMA, WHICH IS THE LARGEST CITY IN EASTERN CONGO, IT WAS CONTROLLED BY THE MILITIA GROUP M23.

THIS GROUP HAS TAKEN ALSO THE SECOND LARGEST CITY IN EASTERN CONGO AND A LARGE PART OF THE KIBU PROVINCES.

NOW THERE ARE NEW DISPLACEMENTS.

1.

2 MILLION PEOPLE DISPLACED BY THAT RECENT FIGHTING WHEN THIS GROUP TOOK CONTROL OF THE AREA.

BUT I WAS ALSO TAKEN ABACK BY SEEING SOME OF THE 1.

8 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE NOW TO RETURN HOME TO THEIR ANCESTRAL LAND WHO NEED SEEDS TO PLANT AGAIN.

THEY WANT TO BE FARMERS AGAIN.

THEY WANT TO REBUILD THEIR HOMES.

WE CAN'T HELP THEM.

AND THEN IT IS HEART BREAKING TO SEE THAT THE U.S. IS CUTTING ITS AID IN THIS HOUR OF GREATEST NEED AND GREATEST OPPORTUNITY TO HELP THEM THE CONGOLESE.

THE EUROPEANS ARE TURNING THEIR BACK ON THIS TREMENDOUS CRISIS.

WE CAN DO SO MUCH MORE.

WE HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED HUMANITARIAN WORKERS ON THE GROUND, AND THEY CAN DO MIRACLES IF WE HAVE THE RESOURCES.

>> HOW ARE THE CONGOLESE THERE THAT YOU SPOKE WITH REACTING TO THIS SORT OF MORE ISOLATIONIST VIEW FROM THE UNITED STATES IN TERMS OF CUTTING OFF AID FOR OTHER COUNTRIES?

I MEAN, YOU HAVE THE SECRETARY-GENERAL SAYING WE'RE --I MEAN THE SECRETARY OF STATE SAYING WE'RE NOT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE WORLD.

AND AS YOU NOTED, EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AS WELL MAYBE NOT FOR THIS PARTICULAR REASON, BUT THEIR FOCUS HAS TURNED TO DEFENSE ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

KEIR STARMER ALSO SAYING THEY WILL HAVE TO BOOST DEFENSE SPENDING AND THUS TAKE A CUT IN SORT OF THEIR INTERNATIONAL AID.

HOW ARE THE CONGOLESE RESPONDING TO THIS NEWS?

>> I MEAN, THEY ARE --THEY ARE SO DISAPPOINTED REALLY BECAUSE WHAT IS HAPPENING IS A TREMENDOUS STRATEGIC MISTAKE OF THE WESTERN COUNTRIES.

NORTH --THE UNITED STATES, EUROPE, THE GULF COUNTRIES, AND JAPAN MUST DO MORE.

WE ARE INTERESTED ALL IN A WORLD WITHOUT PANDEMICS, WITHOUT MASS MIGRATION, WITHOUT PERPETUAL WARS.

WHAT WE'RE SPENDING IS 0.

2% OF A GROSS NATIONAL INCOME ON ASSISTANCE.

THE U. S. IS LESS THAN 0.

2% OF GROSS NATIONAL INCOME.

NORWEGIANS ARE PAYING FIVE TIMES MORE PER TAXPAYER, AND WE'RE STILL ONLY PAYING ONLY 1% OF OUR RICHEST.

AND WHAT WE DO WHEN WE INVEST IN HOPE IS SAVING LIVES.

THESE WERE MOTHERS SINGING AND DANCING AFTER THEY HAVE GOTTEN ASSISTANCE FROM THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL.

THIS WAS FROM THE U. K. AND FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION AND FROM NORWAY.

THEY WERE REBUILDING THEIR HOMES.

THEY WERE NOW BECOMING SELF-SUFFICIENT ON THEIR OWN LAND.

WE COULD DO THAT BECAUSE WE HAD THE RESOURCES.

I THINK IT'S A STRATEGIC MISTAKE NOW TO BE INWARD LOOKING, NATIONALISTIC AND DO ARMAMENTS ONLY.

>> YEAH, THE IDEA OF SOFT POWER BEING SO POWERFUL, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART --OR FOR MANY, MANY DECADES HAS BEEN PART OF U. S. FOREIGN POLICY AS WELL AS FAR AS THE HUMANITARIAN ASPECT OF GIVING AID TO THESE COUNTRIES.

IF WE CAN GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAW IN THE DRC.

YOU SAY GENERATIONS OF CHILDREN NOW KNOW NOTHING BUT THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

LET ME JUST READ THROUGH SOME OF THE DETAILS THAT YOU SHARED WITH OUR PRODUCERS.

THE URBAN CAMPS HAVE OVERFLOWN, LATRINES, NOWHERE TO WASH, DOZENS OF PEOPLE SLEEPING IN ONE ROOM.

THESE ARE THE SO-CALLED LUCKY PEOPLE THAT MANAGED TO SURVIVE AND FLEE BUT ARE NOW DISPLACED.

NO POTS FOR COOKING, GENDER BASED VIOLENCE, MOTHERS HAVING TO SEND THEIR KIDS OUT BEGGING OR EXCHANGING SEX FOR FOOD.

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS CRISIS --AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR FOCUS ON IT --HAS BEEN SO NEGLECTED BY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD?

>> WELL, IT'S BEEN LASTING FOR A LONG TIME.

OF COURSE, THE CONGO IS SO RICH IN MINERALS, IN NATURAL RESOURCES THAT IT HAS BEEN RIPPED APART BY COLONIAL POWERS, EUROPEAN COLONIAL POWERS, BY NEIGHBORING STATES, BY MULTINATIONAL COMPANIES, SOME OF THEM EUROPEAN, SOME OF THEM AMERICAN.

THE PEOPLE HAVE NEVER GOT THE FAIR CHANCE TO BUILD A FUTURE.

NOW WE CAN DO THAT.

SO LET ME TELL YOU A STORY OF GOING TO ONE SCHOOL WHERE THERE WERE 3,500 PEOPLE WHO HAD FLED THE FIGHTING AND WHO HAD COME TO THIS SCHOOL AND NOW SLEEP EVERY NIGHT IN THE CLASSROOMS.

EVERY MORNING THEY HAVE TO DRAG OUT THE BLANKETS AND MATTRESSES BECAUSE THERE'S SCHOOL STILL GOING ON THERE, AND THE LATRINES ARE OVERFLOWING.

THEY TOLD ME THAT THIS GUERILLA GROUP, THE M23 THAT IS IN CONTROL HAD COME AND SAID YOU HAVE TO LEAVE, WE GIVE YOU 24 HOURS TO LEAVE.

IF NOT, THE MEN WILL HAVE TO GO TO FORCED LABOR, AND THE WOMEN WILL BE ERNED ON THE FOOTBALL STADIUM.

SO I ASKED THEM DO YOU WANT TO GO BACK HOME, IS THAT YOUR WISH?

AND THEY SAID THERE IS NO HIGHER WISH FOR US, BUT IT IS SO FAR AWAY.

SO WE AGREED WITH THEM TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE ARMED GROUP, AND WE GOT TO STAY ON THIS --ON THIS EXPANSION FOR TWO WEEKS.

AND IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WE WITH --THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL WITH THE UNITED NATIONS ENABLED VOLUNTARY RETURN WITH TRANSFER AND SO ON, CASH TO REINTEGRATE WHEN THEY COME BACK SO THEY CAN START TO FARM AGAIN.

THIS IS A SUCCESS STORY THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF RICH COUNTRIES TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THEIR SURPLUS TO GIVE TO THE POOREST AND THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

>> THAT IS DEFINITELY ONE ASPECT, BUT ADDRESSING THE CONFLICT AT HAND ITSELF IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT ISSUE.

WE KNOW THAT TALKS ARE UNDERWAY IN DOHA NOW BETWEEN CONGO AND M23.

M23, WE SHOULD NOTE, BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND THE U. N. BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE BACKED BY RWANDA.

RWANDA HAS DENIED THAT.

BUT HOW HOPEFUL ARE YOU THAT THESE TALKS WILL ACTUALLY BE FRUITFUL AND PUT A PAUSE OR HOPEFULLY EVEN AN END TO THE FIGHTING?

>> I'M HOPEFUL.

I THINK THE ARMED ACT ALL UNDERSTAND NOW THE FIGHTING NOW WILL BE IN NOBODY'S INTEREST, AND THE POPULATION CANNOT TAKE MORE DISPLACEMENT AND CONFLICT.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT THERE'S BEEN MEETINGS BETWEEN RWANDA AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE DRC.

THERE IS TALKS BETWEEN THIS ONE ARMED GROUP, M23, WHICH IS VERY STRONG, AND THE CONGOLESE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT.

THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, THE EASTERN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, THE CENTRAL AFRICAN COUNTRIES ARE INVOLVED IN TALKS.

I'M HOPEFUL.

BUT WE ALSO NEED THEN TO HAVE THE INVESTMENT IN DEVELOPMENT AND HUMANITARIAN AID AND SOME RESOLUTION TO THE SANCTIONS THAT THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY IS UNDER.

WE CANNOT NOW MOVE MONEY TO THE BANKS IN THE AREA BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDER SANCTIONS.

HUMANITARIAN WORK, ECONOMIC LIFE IS BEING PARALYZED.

>> HELP US PUT A FACE TO SOME OF THESE HUMANITARIAN AIDE WORKERS WHO FOR MOST VIEWERS JUST KNOW FROM VIEWERS AND THE HEADLINES TYPICALLY AS OF LATE HAVE BEEN QUITE BLEAK.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE CUTTING OF USAID FROM THIS GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT, OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

LOOK AT MYANMAR.

THREE AIDE WORKERS WERE LAID OFF IN MYANMAR WHILE TRYING TO HELP IN ASSISTANCE WITH THAT DEVASTATING EARTHQUAKE.

YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAW IN THE DRC.

YOU SAW THAT REPORT FROM JEREMY DIAMOND IN GAZA WHERE ISRAEL IS NOW REINVESTIGATING AN INVESTIGATION FOLLOWING WHAT HAD BEEN EYEWITNESS AND VIDEO REPORTS QUESTIONING THE CLAIMS THAT THE IDF HAD INITIALLY MADE.

JUST GIVE US IN THESE FINAL FEW MOMENTS MORE INSIGHT INTO THE RISKS THAT THESE AIDE WORKERS TAKE AND FACE AROUND THE WORLD AND THE CHALLENGES IN PARTICULAR THEY'RE NOW FACING.

>> THERE IS ENORMOUS BRAVERY ON THESE FRONT LINES OF HUMANITY BY LOCAL AIDE WORKERS LIKE THE PALESTINIAN COLLEAGUES WHO WERE KILLED --THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT --BY A MILITARY MACHINE.

AND DON'T BELIEVE THE REPORT OF PARTIES TO CONFLICTS.

BELIEVE US AS AIDE WORKERS ON THE GROUND.

WE'RE INDEPENDENT, NEUTRAL, WE'RE IMPARTIAL.

IN THE DRC I HAD COLLEAGUES WHO WENT INTO LOCK DOWN.

THEY DIDN'T LEAVE WHEN IT WAS TAKEN OVER BY THIS ARMED GROUP.

THEY WENT DOWN IN THE BASEMENT AND AFTER THREE DAYS OF INTENSE FIGHTING, THEY CAME OUT AND THEY STARTED RELIEF WORK.

THAT'S WHAT WE ALWAYS DO WHEN WE'RE ON THE FRONT LINES.

I HOPE WE CAN NOW NOT SEE A RETREAT OF INTERNATIONAL COMPASSION, INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY THAT THE CHRISTIAN AND HUMANIST AND OTHER IDOLS WILL COME THROUGH, REALLY, BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH WE CAN DO, THERE IS SO MUCH WE CAN LIVE TOGETHER IF WE LIVE TOGETHER AND WE HAVE FANTASTIC PEOPLE WILLING TO RISK THEIR LIVES TO HELP PEOPLE IN THE FIELD.

THEN WE CANNOT DISAPPOINT THEM BY NOT GIVING THEM THE TOOLS TO SAVE LIVES AND TO BUILD FUTURES.

>> AND WE KNOW THERE IS SO MUCH MORE WORK TO BE DONE.

JAN EGELAND, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO SEE IT BUT WE DID SHOW OUR VIEWERS THE FOOTAGE OF YOUR TIME ON THE GROUND THERE IN THE DRC WITH THE LOCALS.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS STORY WITH US AND FOR INVESTING YOUR OWN TIME THERE AS WELL.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> WELL, NOW THE U. S. IS FACING ONE OF ITS WORST MEASLES OUTBREAKS IN DECADES, WHICH LAST WEEK CLAIMED THE LIFE OF A SECOND CHILD.

THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IS WORKING WITH LOCAL OFFICIALS TO COMBAT THE OUTBREAK, AND NOW THIS COMES AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS SLASHING THOUSANDS OF JOBS AND BILLIONS IN GRANTS TO STATE AND LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS.

TOM FRIEDEN LED THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION FOR OVER A DECADE, AND HE WARNS HARI SREENIVASAN THESE CUTS THREATEN ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> LAST WEEK THE HHS ANNOUNCED IT'S BEGINNING SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS IN LAYOFFS.

10,000 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE DOWNSIZED.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU HEARD THE NEWS?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS TARGETING ARBITRARY NUMBERS.

THE GOAL SHOULD BE PREVENTING SUFFERING, INJURY, ILLNESS, AND DEATH.

THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO IMPROVE HEALTH AND MAKE AMERICA HEALTHIER.

>> SO YOU WROTE A COLUMN RECENTLY AND THE TITLE WAS "CUTS TO THE AGENCY WILL COST AMERICANS LIVES AND DOLLARS. "

EXPLAIN THAT.

WHY IS THIS LIFE OR DEATH IN.

>> TRADITIONALLY FOR DECADES THE CDC HAS PROTECTED AMERICANS FROM THREATS, WHETHER THOSE ARE INFECTIOUS OR OTHERWISE MAN MADE OR NATURAL FROM THE U. S. OR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE THREE AREAS THAT THREATS COME FROM, TWO OF THEM ARE BEING UNDERMINED BY RECENT ACTIONS.

ONE OF THEM IS NONINFECTIOUS THREATS, WHICH ARE VERY REAL.

THE CHRONIC DISEASE CRISIS IS INDEED A CRISIS, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE CUTS TO THE GLOBAL HEALTH PROGRAMS, THEY'RE DEVASTATING.

IF NOT REVERSED, THEY WILL CAUSE MILLIONS OF DEATHS AROUND THE WORLD AND MAKE AMERICANS LESS SAFE.

>> PEOPLE MIGHT RECOGNIZE YOUR FACE.

YOU USED TO RUN THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION.

KIND OF PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE FOR US, WHERE THE CDC SITS, WHAT IT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR, WHERE THE HHS SITS, WHAT IT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR.

>> THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED, HARI, NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

WHAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IS REVERSING DECADES OF PROGRESS IN PUBLIC HEALTH.

FIRST, LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE AM.

FIRST, SMOKING.

THE CDC OFFICE OF HEALTH HAS MADE GREAT PROGRESS.

WE'VE REDUCED SMOKING TO THE LOWEST LEVEL.

SMOKING IN KIDS IS LESS THAN 4% NOW.

IT USED TO BE 28%.

THESE ARE PROGRAMS WE'RE WORK.

AND OVERNIGHT THEY BE BEEN ENDED, AND THAT MEANS THE LACK OF WORK, THE DISEASE TRACKING, THE SUPPORT FOR STATE PROGRAMS.

THERE ARE MANY STATE PROGRAMS THAT RELY FOR MOST OF THEIR MONEY FOR TOBACCO CONTROL ON THE CDC.

THIS INCLUDES KANSAS, WEST VIRGINIA, MICHIGAN, AND OTHERS.

SO TOBACCO IS ONE BIG AREA.

A SECOND IS ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH RISKS.

THE WHOLE UNIT THAT TRACKS ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH RISKS WHETHER THAT'S ASTHMA OR SOOT CALLED MM 2.

5 OR HARMFUL ALGAE BLOOMS, A BIG ISSUE IN FLORIDA, THAT WHOLE UNIT WAS ENDED FROM ONE DAY TO THE NEXT.

THE THIRD AREA IS COMMUNICATION.

AMERICANS RELY ON THE CDC FOR FACT- BASED INFORMATION.

DOCTORS RELY ON THE CDC FOR MEDICAL GUIDANCE.

ALL OF THE CDC COMMUNICATIONS PROGRAMS WERE ENDED.

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THEY'RE GOING TO UPDATE THEIR WEBSITE OR LIVE STREAM PROGRAMS OR RUN WHAT'S CALLED CDC INFO WHERE THEY ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC.

THIS REALLY DOES UNDERMINE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE U. S. >> THERE'S A STORY IN "THE WASHINGTON POST," WHICH SAID THAT EMPLOYEES WHO WERE LAID OFF WORKED ON MEASURES TO, QUOTE, PREVENT DROWNWRECKER GUN VIOLENCE AND SMOKING.

SCIENTISTS RESEARCHED ASTHMA, CLIMATE CHANGE, AND WORKER SAFETY.

THESE PROGRAMS, SHOULD THEY BE UNDER THE CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL?

>> WELL, FIRST OFF, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN FUNDS GO TO THE CDC, ABOUT TWO- THIRDS OF ALL OF THOSE FUNDS GO OUT TO STATE AND LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS AND SOME TO COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS TO CONFRONT THOSE PROBLEMS IN COMMUNITIES.

SO WHEN YOU CUT THE BUDGET FOR CDC, YOU'RE ACTUALLY CUTTING STATE AND LOCAL PROGRAMS.

AND WHEN YOU CUT THE NUMBER OF STAFF WORKING AT CDC, YOU'RE UNDERMINING THE ABILITY OF CDC TO BOTH INCREASE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THOSE PROGRAMS AND TO SUPPORT STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

>> ROBERT F. KENNEDY HAD SAID --JR. , HAD SAID THIS OVERHAUL WAS NECESSARY.

HE PUT IT UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

QUOTE, THE REALITY IS CLEAR.

WHAT WE'RE DOING ISN'T WORKING.

DESPITE SPENDING $1.9 TRILLION IN ANNUAL COSTS, AMERICANS ARE GETTING SICKER EVERY YEAR.

IN THE PAST YEAR ALONE THE AGENCY'S BUDGET HAS GROWN BY 38%, YET OUTCOMES CONTINUE TO DECLINE.

>> THERE ARE ELEMENTS THE SECRETARY SAYS I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH.

WE HAVE A CRISIS.

WE MUST ADDRESS IT.

WHAT WE LEARN IN PUBLIC HEALTH WHEN WE FOCUS ON THINGS, WE CAN SEE BIG PROGRESS.

LOOK AT HIV.

WITH HIV WE HAVE A 90% REDUCTION IN DEATHS AND A 75% REDUCTION IN INFECTIONS BECAUSE OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS.

WHEN YOU ELIMINATE THOSE PROGRAMS, YOU GET RID OF LABS THAT TRACK THINGS LIKE HEPATITIS AND STDs.

YOU ELIMINATE TRACKING SYSTEMS FOR BEHAVIORAL RISKS.

YOU'RE REALLY PUTTING AMERICANS AT RISK.

>> THERE SEEMS TO BE A FOCUS ON CHRONIC DISEASE FROM THE PART OF THE CABINET SECRETARY.

WHERE ARE WE IN TERMS OF THE WORK THAT HHS AND CDC DO IN PREVENTING THOSE?

>> THE BIG PICTURE ABOUT CHRONIC DISEASE IS THERE IS NO MYSTERY ABOUT IT.

THERE ARE FIVE THINGS THAT ARE DRIVING MOST CHRONIC DISEASE IN AMERICA -- TOBACCO, SALT, SUGAR, SOOT CALLED PM 2.

5, AND ALCOHOL.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADDRESSING INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND ADDRESSING CHRONIC DISEASES IS THAT INFECTIOUS DISEASES DON'T HIRE LOBBYISTS.

THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY HAS BEEN TRYING TO GET RID OF THE CDC PROGRAM FOR DECADES.

THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION ACCOMPLISHED THAT IN WEEKS.

A SECOND AREA THAT'S REALLY CHALLENGING IS IMPROVING NUTRITION.

THIS MEANS IMPROVING THE CHOICES THAT AMERICANS HAVE IN THE SUPERMARKET, IN RESTAURANTS SO THAT THE HEALTHIER FOODS ARE LESS EXPENSIVE, MORE ACCESSIBLE.

RIGHT NOW THE AGRICULTURE DEPARTMENT SPENDS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SUBSIDIZE UNHEALTHY FOOD THAT'S SOLD CHEAPLY TO AMERICANS.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CHRONIC DISEASES, I MEAN, DATA DOESN'T SEEM TO BACK UP OUR CURRENT WAY OF DOING THINGS, RIGHT?

I MEAN, EARLY ON CANCER INCREASED BY 79% BETWEEN 1990 AND 2019 AROUND THE WORLD.

WITH MEDICAL PROBLEMS LIKE THIS SEEM TO BE PERSISTING, WHY SHOULD WE NOT SHIFT COURSE AS CABINET SECRETARY KENNEDY SAYS?

>> WE KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT CHRONIC DISEASE.

TAX TOBACCO.

TAX ALCOHOL, TAX SODA.

TAX JUNK FOOD.

THIS MAKES A REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE.

IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, AT LEAST DON'T SUBSIDIZE JUNKer JUNK FOOD AND UNHEALTHY FOOD.

MAKE HEALTHY FOOD CHEAPER AND MORE AVAILABLE.

IT'S ALSO CRITICAL WE IMPROVE OUR PRIMARY HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

HERE'S A SHOCKING FACT.

LESS THAN 5% OF ALL OF THE FUNDS THAT MEDICARE PROVIDES GOES TO PRIMARY CARE.

PRIMARY CARE IS YOUR LOCAL DOCTOR, YOUR FAMILY CLINICIAN.

THAT IS VERY, VERY COST-EFFECTIVE CARE.

IN FACT, THE BEST EVIDENCE IS IF WE DO IT RIGHT, WE COULD TRIPLE SPENDING ON PRIMARY CARE AND REDUCE OVERALL MEDICARE SPENDING.

AND IN FACT, PRIMARY CARE IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR ABOUT 100 MILLION AMERICANS DON'T HAVE A LOCAL DOCTOR.

SO, YES, WE DO NEED IMPROVEMENTS.

WE NEED BETTER PRIMARY HEALTH CARE, AND FRANKLY WE NEED MORE INVESTMENT IN SOME OF THE LEADING CAUSES OF ILLNESS, INJURY, DISABILITY, AND DEATH.

20 YEARS AGO I WROTE AN ARTICLE CALLED "ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH," THAT WE ARE ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH FROM INFECTIOUS TO NONINFECTIOUS CAUSES OF DEATH.

BUT WE INVEST, WE SEE BIG IMPROVEMENTS.

>> I WONDER WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INFECTIOUS DISEASE, I WAS READING A PAPER LAST WEEK ASUCSF, AND IT SAID THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE MORE DRUG-RESISTANT CASES OF TUBERCULOSIS AND HIV SPREAD IN THE WORLD.

THIS IS KIND OF WHAT HAPPENS AFTER PERIODS OF WAR OR ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, AND THAT'S WHAT THESE TWO RESEARCHERS WERE KIND OF MAKING THIS PARALLEL TO, OUR WITHDRAWAL FROM U. S. AID OR IN SOME OF THE PREVENTATIVE ISSUES UNDER BOTH OF THESE DEPARTMENTS.

>> THE CHAOTIC U. S. WITHDRAWAL FROM GLOBAL HEALTH IS GOING TO HAVE TERRIBLE CONSEQUENCES NOT ONLY ON THE HEALTH OF CHILDREN, MOTHERS, AND ADULTS AROUND THE WORLD BUT ALSO ON AMERICAN HEALTH.

DRUG RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS IS AN IMPORTANT EXAMPLE.

WHEN YOU STOP A TB TREATMENT PROGRAM, WHEN YOU DISRUPT IT WITH MESSING UP SUPPLY CHAINS, WITH STOPPING FUNDING OF ORGANIZATIONS PROVIDING CARE -- TO GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE AN EXCELLENT ORGANIZATION IN BANGLADESH HAD THOUSANDS OF WORKERS HELPING TUBERCULOSIS PATIENTS GET THROUGH TREATMENT.

THEY WERE LAID OFF.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HEALTH WORKERS IN AFRICA HAVE BEEN LAID OFF BECAUSE OF THESE VERY DRASTIC, CHAOTIC, AND UNPLANNED CUTS.

THESE IS REALLY BAD FOR THE WORLD, AND IT'S BAD FOR THE U. S. ALSO.

A SINGLE CASE OF DRUG RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS CAN COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OR EVEN A MILLION DOLLARS TO CARE FOR IN THE U. S. AND YET PREVENTING THAT OVERSEAS COULD COST LESS THAN $100.

>> HOW DO WE GET OVER WHAT HAS BECOME A STRUCTURAL MISTRUST IN THE INSTITUTIONS WITHIN OUR GOVERNMENT REGARDING HEALTH?

RIGHT, THERE WERE AN IPSOS/AXOS POLL 20% OF AMERICANS TRUSTED THE CDC.

BY AUGUST OF 2024 ONLY 49% OF REPUBLICANS AND 59% OF INDEPENDENTS COMPARED TO 88% OF DEMOCRATS.

IT BECOMES AN INCREDIBLY PARTISAN SPLIT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ACCOUNTS FOR THIS KIND OF LACK OF TRUST, AND WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO REBUILD IT?

>> THIS ISN'T EASY TO REBUILD, AND I THINK BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS BEAR SOME OF THE BLAME FOR THIS, FRANKLY.

IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THE CDC WAS REQUIRED TO SPEAK AS PART OF THE WHITE HOUSE, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

BECAUSE IF THEY'RE CONNECTED WITH POLITICIANS, THAIN PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE THOSE POLITICIANS, AREN'T GOING TO LIKE THE ADVICE THAT CDC GIVES.

UNFORTUNATELY, TRUST IS ONLY BUILT VERY GRADUALLY AND CAN BE DESTROYED IN A MOMENT.

WHAT CDC AND PUBLIC HEALTH NEED TO DO IS LISTEN, ADDRESS WHAT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, HAVE SMALL WINS, AND STAY AWAY FROM MANDATES.

NOT POPULAR, NOT EFFECTIVE, AND FOR MOST THINGS NOT NECESSARY.

THE FEW THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY.

SHUTTING A LOCAL RESTAURANT THAT'S SPREADING TYPHOID OR SALMONELLA, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WITH UNDERSTAND.

>> SPEAKING OF THINGS THAT ARE INFECTIOUS DISEASES THAT ARE AFFECTING POPULATIONS TODAY, JUST OVER THE WEEKEND A SECOND CHILD IN TEXAS DIED FROM A MEASLES OUTBREAK THERE.

IN AN OP-ED SECRETARY KENNEDY HAS PROMOTED VACCINES, BUT HE'S ALSO PURSUED REMEDIES LIKE VITAMIN A AND COD LIVER OIL.

I WONDER WHAT YOU SEE ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS AND MESSAGING, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT APPROACH?

>> THERE ARE REALLY BIG PROBLEMS WITH THE U. S. RESPONSE TO MEASLES.

JUST TO BE CLEAR THIS IS THE SECOND LARGEST OUTBREAK WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST 25 YEARS AND AS MANY DEATHS WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST 25 YEARS COMBINED IN THE U. S. THE MEASLES VACCINE IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE.

MEASLES VIRUS IS DANGEROUS.

AND AS WE'VE SEEN, IT CAN BE DEADLY EVEN FOR HEALTHY CHILDREN.

VITAMIN-A --ACTUALLY, BY CHANCE I DID THE STUDIES ON TAMIN-A, WHEN THERE WAS A BIG OUTBREAK IN THE CITY IN THE 1980 s. VITAMIN- A PLAYS A ROLE.

FOR VERY YOUNG CHILDREN A SMALL DOSE OF VITAMIN-A CAN BE GOOD FOR YOUNG CHILDREN.

IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH IT CAN BE TOXIC.

THESE ARE NOT JUST TOXIC MEDICINES BUT TOXIC ADVICE.

THE WAY YOU STOP A MEASLES OUTBREAK IS BY VACCINATING, PROVIDING IT TO PEOPLE, ANSWERING THEIR QUESTIONS, BEING CLEAR THE MEASLES VACCINE IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE P. >> IS ROBERT KENNEDY JR. , MISINTERPRETING YOUR ADVICE ABOUT VITAMIN A STUDIES?

>> ANYONE WHO SAYS GIVING VITAMIN A WILL PREVENT MEASLES OR GIVEN BEFORE A MEASLES INFECTION IS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY FACTS.

>> RECENTLY WE HAD THE CHIEF HE LEFT FDA BECAUSE OF DISAGREEMENTS.

HE TOLD "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" THAT KENNEDY SOUGHT NONEXISTENT DATA TO JUSTIFY ANTI- VAXX NARRATIVES.

SO WHAT DO YOU SEE HERE IF THE PERSON WHO'S RUNNING THE AGENCY IN CHARGE OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IS PROMOTING MIS OR DISINFORMATION?

>> I'M WORRIED.

AND I'M WORRIED ABOUT THINGS LIKE ADVISORY PRACTICES WHERE MR. KENNEDY HAS SPREAD FALSE STATEMENTS.

HE SAID 90% OF HAVE SEVERE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

WHAT CDC HAS PUT ON THE WEBSITE EVERY POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN EVERY MEMBER OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, THESE ARE PARENTS, PEDIATRICIANS, PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALISTS WHO VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME.

AND THIS GROUP WHAT'S CALLED THE ACIP IS WHAT GIVES DOCTORS THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WHICH VACCINES TO GIVE AND WHAT REQUIRES INSURERS TO PAY FOR THESE VACCINES WHETHER THEY'RE THERE FOR COVID OR MENINGITIS.

SO MESSING UP OUR INFRASTRUCTURE TO USE FACTS TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM MICROBES IS VERY DANGEROUS PATH TO GO DOWN.

>> SO WHAT'S DANGEROUS IN SAYING PERHAPS THESE FUNCTIONS CAN BE DONE BY OTHER DEPARTMENTS, OTHER AGENCIES, AND THIS IS A WAY THAT WE CAN CUT COSTS?

>> THERE'S A MOVE TO CREATE A CENTRALIZED UNIT IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND ACTUALLY CONGRESS HAS OUTLINED SOME INTEREST IN LOOKING AT THAT.

UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT ACTUALLY WOULD BE DONE AND HOW, IT'S HARD TO SAY WHETHER IT'S A GOOD OR BAD IDEA.

CERTAINLY DOING THINGS IN AN UNPLANNED WAY, GETTING RID OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO SPENT DECADES OF THEIR LIVES LEARNING HOW TO PROTECT AMERICANS, THAT'S A BAD IDEA, AND IT'S NOT A RECIPE FOR SUCCESS.

AND COMMUNICATION IS SO VERY IMPORTANT.

WHO'S GOING TO TRUST A POLITICAL APPOINTEE TO GIVE INFORMATION WHEN THE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING THE WORLD'S TOP EXPERTS IN MICROBES, IN ENVIRONMENTAL TOXINS, IN PREVENTION OF STROKE AND HEART ATTACK, AND TREATMENT OF DIABETES.

THAT'S WHO WE NEED TO BE HEARING FROM, AND THAT'S HUT WE NEED TO BE STRENGTHENING.

WE CAN REVERSE THE CHRONIC DISEASE EPIDEMIC IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT THAT MEANS BETTER PRIMARY HEALTH CARE WITH A FOCUS ON CONTROLLING HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND IMPLEMENTING THE PROGRAMS THAT WORK WHILE WE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S CAUSING SOME OF THE INCREASES.

FOR EXAMPLE, OF CANCER IN YOUNG PEOPLE, WHICH IS MOST LIKELY A RESULT OF SOME ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATIONS, WHETHER IT'S MICROPLASTICS OR NANO PARTICLES OR ENDOCRINE DISRUPTERS.

ALL THOSE THINGS WERE STUDIED BY THE CDC UNIT THAT GOT AXED LAST WEEK.

>> ONE OF THE SECTIONS THAT WE SEE HERE THAT'S BEING SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED IS THE NIH AND THE GRANTS THAT USUALLY GO THROUGH NIH FOR RESEARCHERS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND REALLY SOMETIMES AROUND THE WORLD.

PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE FOR US, RIGHT?

IF SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT, OKAY, THE GOVERNMENT IS INTERESTED IN TRYING TO PREVENT CHRONIC DISEASE, IS TRYING TO GET ME HEALTHIER FROM THE GET-GO, IF THAT'S WHAT THE CABINET SECRETARY SAYS, SHOULD WE BE INVESTING IN RESEARCH THAT MIGHT NOT BEAR FRUIT FOR YEARS OR POSSIBLY EVEN DECADES?

>> IN MY VIEW WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS IMPLEMENT WHAT'S PROVEN.

AND FOR THE THINGS THAT AREN'T PROVEN, STUDY THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS.

THERE'S A LOT THAT'S PROVEN TO REDUCE CHRONIC DISEASE, ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, JUNK FOOD.

WE HAVE PROVEN MECHANISMS OF REDUCING THE CONSUMPTION OF THOSE HARMFUL SUBSTANCES.

SOOT 2.

5, THERE ARE PROVEN WAYS OF REDUCING EXPOSURE.

WE DON'T NEED STUDIES ON WHETHER THAT'S A PROBLEM.

WE MAY NEED RESEARCH TO FIGURE HOW TO BEST IMPLEMENT PROGRAMS LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS LIKE CANCER IN YOUNG PEOPLE, WHICH ARE INCREASING.

AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT'S HAPPENING SO WE CAN CONFRONT IT.

>> MAKE THE CASE FOR HOW INTERCONNECTED GLOBAL HEALTH IS TO AMERICAN HEALTH BECAUSE SOME OF THE PUSHBACK THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SEEING RECENTLY IS, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW IF I SHOULD BE SPENDING TAXPAYER MONEY ON PREVENTING TUBERCULOSIS IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY OR HIV IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY.

WHAT DOES GNAT HAVE TO DO WITH AMERICAN HEALTH HERE?

>> VIRUSES DON'T NEED PASSPORTS.

VIRUSES DON'T OBEY BORDERS.

AND WHEN A DISEASE EMERGES ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, IT MAY BE A THREAT NOT JUST THERE BUT TO THE U. S. AS WELL.

IT'S FASTER.

IT'S MORE EFFICIENT, AND IT'S MORE EFFECTIVE TO STOP HEALTH THREATS WHEN AND WHERE THEY EMERGE THAN TO WAIT UNTIL THEY'VE SPREAD AND GAINED MOMENTUM AND ARE NOW SPREADING WITHIN THE UNITED STATES.

>> FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CDC TOM FRIEDEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, HARI.

> >> WELL, NOW THE RWANDAN GENOCIDE, 100 DAYS OF SLAUGHTER, 31 YEARS OF PAIN.

THIS WEEK PEOPLE WILL COME TOGETHER TO REMEMBER THOSE WHO WERE KILLED.

IN THE SPRING OF 1994 OVER MONTHS OF CAREFULLY PLANNED TERROR AROUND 800,000 PEOPLE MOSTLY FROM THE TUTSI ETHNIC MINORITY MURDERED BY THE EXTREMISTS.

YET FROM THE MOST HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY FORGIVENESS AND RECONCILIATION EMERGED.

BACK IN 2019 CHRISTIANE SPOKE WITH DENISE UWIMANA, A SURVIVOR WHO WAS PREGNANT WHEN THE MILITIA ATTACKED HER VILLAGE.

HEAR HER CONVERSATION AND THE MESSAGE OF HOME.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FAMILY PRECISELY BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FAMILY HAPPENED TO NEARLY A MILLION OTHERS IN RWANDA.

>> THERE WERE FAMILY ON THE SIDE OF MY FATHER, THE SIDE OF MY MOTHER, THE MOST PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

MY FATHER, MY MOTHER ESCAPED THE GENOCIDE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN RWANDA.

>> IF THEY HAD BEEN IN RWANDA -- >> YES.

>> --YOU WOULD HAVE LOST YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER.

>> OF COURSE, YES.

>> AND YOU WERE MARRIED.

YOU WERE THE MOTHER OF TWO CHILDREN, TWO BOYS, AND YOU WERE PREGNANT WHEN THE GENOCIDE HAPPENED.

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR HUSBAND?

>> MY HUSBAND WAS KILLED DURING THE GENOCIDE.

IF TODAY I DON'T KNOW THE WAY THEY KILLED HIM.

SO NO ONE EVEN TOLD ME YOUR HUSBAND WAS KILLED FROM THIS PEOPLE --I KNOW HE WAS KILLED BY THE HUTU MILITIAS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY PUT HIM.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS.

THIS IS STILL A TRAUMA FOR US.

>> SO YOU'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO BURY HIM OR MAKE YOUR PEACE.

>> UNFORTUNATELY NOT BECAUSE I ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS.

I ALWAYS ASK PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.

NO ONE WAS REALLY ABLE TO GIVE ME AN ANSWER.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU GOT SEPARATED?

DID YOU REMEMBER THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM?

>> OF COURSE.

IT WAS VERY HARD.

IT WAS 5th OF APRIL, 1994, AND HE ASKED ME, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING?

I TOLD HIM WHAT I WAS FEELING.

HE JUST SAYING GOOD- BYE AND HE MUST LEAVE AS HE WENT, AND I NEVER SEEN HIM AGAIN.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER HIS LAST WORDS TO YOU?

>> OH, HE JUST EMBRACED ME.

HE TOLD I LOVE YOU, AND HE WENT.

>> AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT, AND YOU HAD AS I SAID, TWO LITTLE BOYS AND YOU WERE PREGNANT.

YOU WERE NINE MONTHS PREGNANT.

YOU WERE NEARLY ABOUT TO HAVE YOUR THIRD CHILD.

>> YEAH.

>> SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

>> THAT IS A REALLY DIFFICULT ALSO BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE SURVIVORS, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS REALLY WHAT WE EXPERIENCED.

I WAS PREGNANT, AND I HEARD THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE KILLED FROM MY NEIGHBOR, THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE KILLED.

WE MAKE PEACE TO SEPARATE, AND I IN MY HOUSE WITH TEN PEOPLE.

WE MET IN THE CORRIDOR.

WE KNEW THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE KILLED.

WE HAD TIME TO SAY GOOD-BYE AND I FLEE IN THE BATHROOM BECAUSE I HEARD THAT MILITIAS WERE COMING.

I HAD MY SECOND SON ON MY BACK.

OTHER WENT IN MY BEDROOM, OTHER IN GUEST ROOM.

SO IN THE BATHROOM THERE I STRUGGLED REALLY WITH GOD.

AND I HAVE REASON TO STRUGGLE WITH HIM.

FOR MY FAITH I WAS A CHRISTIAN.

MY HUSBAND WAS NOT THERE, SO -- AND THERE I TOLD TO GOD IT IS A POINT TO ME, WHY DIDN'T YOU EVER TELL ME THE TRUTH THAT I WOULD BE KILLED?

>> IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS, YOU GAVE BIRTH.

>> WHEN KILLERS MET ME IN THE BATHROOM, INSTEAD OF KILLING ME THEY HAD A DISCUSSION WITH ME.

THEY ASKED ME MONEY.

I SAID I DON'T HAVE MONEY, SAID WE'RE GOING TO KILL YOU, BUT THEY WANT THE MONEY.

I WENT IN MY BEDROOM.

I SAW MY BELOVED COUSINS DOWN.

>> YOU SAW YOUR DEAD COUSINS.

>> YEAH, DOWN.

SO I TOOK MONEY.

I GAVE THEM.

WHEN I GAVE TO THEM, ONE WANT TO KILL --NO, WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO KILL.

HE GOES TO KILL ME, AND I STOPPED HIM.

AND I WENT IN MY BEDROOM.

UNDER THE BED THEY WILL SEE MY COUSIN, HE WAS STILL ALIVE.

HE TOLD ME PLEASE MAKE ME COME UNDER THE BED, I'M STILL ALIVE.

I CRAWL MYSELF UNDER THE BED.

THEY WERE FULL BLOOD OF PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED.

>> SO YOU CRAWLED INTO THE BLOOD OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE?

>> YES.

I STAYED THERE.

DURING THE NIGHT WATER BROKEN AND HAD TO GIVE BIRTH.

>> YOUR WATER BROKE THEN AND THERE?

>> YES.

AND ALL THE TIME I AM HEALING MY COUSIN IS CRYING, CRYING, JESUS HELP ME UNTIL SHE FINISH.

CAN YOU IMAGINE SO TRAUMATIC?

I BRAVED THE BLOOD, YES THINGS THERE.

AND HE HELP, I TOLD HIM, PLEASE, LET ME GET OUT.

OUR CLOTHES WERE FULL BLOOD.

I WANT A BATH SO I COULD WASH MYSELF, AND I WATCHED THROUGH THE CURTAINS HOW THE KILLERS WOULD PLUNDER THE HOUSES OF TUSI.

>> THEY WERE STEALING.

>> STEALING THE NIGHT.

>> YOU GAVE BIRTH TRYING TO GET HELP TO NEIGHBORS.

I WAS STUNNED TO READ YOU SURVIVED BECAUSE OF YOUR HUTU NEIGHBORS.

>> I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HAD UNEXPECTEDLY SUPPORT FROM HUTU, SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS WHO I DID NOT EXPECT THAT THEY WERE THE ONE TO SUPPORT ME.

SO THEY WERE LIKE ANGELS SENT FROM GOD.

AND UNTIL NOW THEY ARE BEST FRIEND OF ME.

>> HOW ON EARTH -- >> YES?

>> --DID YOU AFTER ALL THIS THAT HAPPENED TO YOU --AND YOU TALK ABOUT RECONCILIATION AND FORGIVENESS.

HOW DID YOU START THE PROCESS OF FORGIVENESS OUT OF THIS HORROR?

>> FIRST, I START IT FOR MYSELF, I CAN SAY BECAUSE I STARTED TO STRUGGLE.

WHY DID YOU ALLOW THAT MORE THAN 1 MILLION TUSI WERE KILLED?

HOW WE AGAIN LIVE WITH THESE PEOPLE?

WHERE ARE WE AGAIN GOING TO TRUST?

WE WERE YOUNG, WE DON'T KNOW.

I SURVIVED 29 YEARS OLD.

>> DID YOU EVER THINK YOU'D BE A WIDOW AT 29?

>> NEVER.

I WAS DREAMING MANY GOOD THINGS WITH MY HUSBAND.

SO SUDDENLY ALL WERE CUT.

HOW I COME TO FORGIVE, SO IT WAS A VOICE INSIDE TOLD ME DO NOT OVERCOME BY EVIL.

DO GOOD THINGS.

AND THEN AS I WAS ALWAYS PRAYING I GOT A MESSAGE REALLY WHICH GAVE ME PSALMS FROM THE BIBLE INSIDE, DENISE, GIVE CHANCE TO THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED YOU SO THEY RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE BACK TO YOU.

>> DID THEY HAVE TO ADMIT WHAT THEY DID?

>> YES, THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

>> BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T JUST FORGIVE JUST LIKE THAT?

>> NO, NO, NO.

THEY SAID FORGIVENESS.

FORGIVENESS IS A PROCESS.

I SAID, YES, BUT I MUST FIGHT EVERY DAY I FORGIVE.

I FORGIVE.

>> WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO FORGIVE?

WHY DID YOU NEED TO FORGIVE THEM?

>> SO I FORGIVE BECAUSE I SAW THEY KILLED MYSELF I HEARD THEM, AND AS A CHRISTIAN I SHOULD NOT DO LIKE THEM.

>> SO YOU NEEDED TO FORGIVE TO END THE HATE.

>> END THE HATE BECAUSE I FORGIVE, AND I END THE HATE.

>> AN INCREDIBLE STORY OF STRENGTH, RESILIENCE, AND ULTIMATELY FORGIVENESS FROM A SURVIVOR.

> >> AND FINALLY, WE END THE SHOW WITH THESE ADORABLE CUBS.

THEY MIGHT LOOK LIKE REGULAR DOGS, BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY A REINCARNATION OF THE DIA WOLF, A FEARSOME SPECIES WHICH WENT EXTINCT OVER 12,000 YEARS AGO.

WIELDING THE POWER OF CLONING AND GENE EDITING TECHNOLOGY, GENE BIOTECH COMPANY SAID THEY EDITED THE DNA FOUND IN FOSSILS.

>> WE'RE A PART OF THE PLANET.

WE'RE KIN TO EVERY OTHER SPECIES OUT THERE.

SO BECAUSE WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SHAPE THE WORLD, I THINK WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO CORRECT OUR MISTAKES FROM THE PAST.

>> WHAT WE DO TODAY IS I THINK WHAT THE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE IS FOR BIODIVERSITY AND FOR NATURE.

>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.