10thirtysix

(bright music) (bright music) - "How We Heal" is our new series focusing on mental health and how to better manage and cope with what you or a loved one may be facing.

Mental health has been identified as the number one health issue in Milwaukee County.

In fact, according to the city, one in four adults living in Milwaukee is dealing with the mental health condition.

Milwaukee PBS producer, Elizabeth Cramer, is also a psychotherapist.

She introduces us to a woman who found ways to cope with decades of depression.

(gentle music) - When I'm making something beautiful from broken things, because that's the word, oh, I used it all the time to describe myself.

I would just, that's how I felt.

I would say "I am just broken."

And it didn't occur to me then, 'cause it wouldn't, 'cause I was depressed.

That broken things can be beautiful, and broken things can have value, and broken things can have integrity.

Hi, I am Terry McGuire, a Milwaukee native.

I am the founder and president of a mental health nonprofit, and I started that and the weekly Giving Voice to Depression podcast after I had my worst ever depression in about 2015, and was hoping to help other people by talking about it.

(bright music) - When do you feel, now, you first had symptoms of depression?

- I think as a child, I think, preteen.

Definitely in my teens.

I think those are very hard years for a lot of people, and I fit right in that category.

There was a lot going on and I was miserable, but it was not, I think, it was considered teenage angst, you know, that it was just, I don't know, I was moody or I was sad or whatever it was.

It wasn't considered a medical thing really by anyone then, we're talking, it was a very long time ago and I was from a big family and you know, that generation just didn't talk about it, so it wasn't like they were recognizing the, you know, five most common symptoms or anything.

I started high school, like everybody does, you know, sort of hoping I'm gonna fit in and be okay, and I never shot for popular, that was not in my wheelhouse, but fit in.

And then within months of starting, I got put into one of those full braces, and all of a sudden I was the girl in the brace, and I wasn't expecting that.

That changed- - For scoliosis?

- Yes.

- Okay.

- For eight years, 23 hours a day.

- Oh wow.

- It started at.

And that changed everything.

- How did you kind of go from high school to the next step?

- I don't think I was aware of depression.

I was married.

I was probably a young mother.

I don't think I had postpartum depression, but I, couple times, went on antidepressants.

You know, where I was just like, "Ooh, something's wrong and I'm hoping it's not my life."

So let's start with what might be going on internally and if we can fix that, not fix, but if we can manage that, then I can go back to feeling like myself again.

- [Elizabeth] When you had that deep depression, how old were you when that episode happened?

- Oh, you're gonna have to, let me see.

It was seven years ago I started the podcast.

So probably two years, we'll say 10 years ago.

I'm 62, so early 50s.

- And what did it convince you about yourself?

- Ooh.

I think the worthless thing is the biggest, and I'm glad you asked because it is my firm belief that the worst and, oddly, least often discussed symptom of depression is the thoughts.

I can live with being drained.

I can live with having no energy.

I can live with, not connecting with life's joy.

Living with those thoughts is hard.

I would wake up and just swear.

I said the same word and I can't say it on public...

I can't say it anywhere.

And I sometimes just said it like, ugh, and sometimes I shouted it, 'cause I was living alone and I was just like, do I have to do this again?

I know just how this day's gonna play out.

I know just how I'm gonna feel.

I know just what I'm gonna think.

I mean, just how many people are in bed?

How many people are dragging their bodies through their days?

How many people are being inundated with those thoughts that just play on a loop and they don't know that it's a common and treatable medical condition?

It's really easy to stay in it because one of the symptoms is that you believe it's you, you as a human being, your true, horrible, worthless self is being revealed to you.

I wished every night to not wake up the next morning.

And that didn't even seem sad to me.

You know, it just seemed like- - A normal thought.

- Ugh, enough like, are you kidding me?

Like, what's the point, if this is how it's gonna be?

What is the point?

I'm not contributing to anything.

- Looking back from where you are now, what would you tell your younger self that was feeling so profoundly worthless?

- Oh, I would say what we're saying here, I would say, hey, you know, this is an illness.

This is common, it's treatable.

Call your doctor.

Treat this like you would treat anything else that has you in bed sick.

You're in bed sick.

That's what that is, but it's not how it feels.

You know, it's not what your brain's telling you.

It's just like why bother to get up?

Well, you don't do that to yourself when you have the flu.

You know, there are times you're bedridden with something and you can hardly find the energy to get up and go about your day.

Again, you don't take that on as proof that you're a worthless human being.

You take it on as proof that you're sick.

(gentle music) I have a very strong sense of purpose now, and that helps me immensely.

And it lets me know that I have worth too.

Now, that's external.

Do I know it just internally?

I do.

I have two children I love more than life itself.

I don't have any issues with myself.

It's not like, oh, I'm a bad person or I should be this or I should be that, or I should be earning this or I should have this kind of house.

I don't do that to myself.

I am comfortable with who I am.

This is a person who tries.

This is a person who is good.

This is a person who is kind, this is a person who has, you know, principles and lives by them.

I wasn't thinking on that level during depression.

- Very seldom, especially when I am in session with a patient, do they say, "I really want joy back" specifically.

- Right, right.

Joy?

Yeah.

- (laughs) Like joy isn't even in the room.

- No, no.

- With us at that point.

I think just feeling any emotions, other than the one that you're feeling right now.

- Right.

- Is what people are searching for.

Because I think if they can experience that emotion that's different than the depression they're feeling in that moment, then it means that other emotions are possible.

- Right.

- Like, just to experience something means that all of them are possible.

So just give me something.

- Just give me something.

- Just give me one.

- Yep.

- Other than what I'm feeling right now, and then I'll believe that I can get to joy again.

- And that's hope.

- That's hope.

- That's what hope is.

Yes.

- That's hope.

- Yeah, and I tell people, and I'm not a therapist, but I say like, if hope sounds like too much, if hope sounds like joy to you, go for curiosity.

Try to find something you're curious about, you know?

Are those tulip bulbs I planted gonna bloom?

What's my grandchild gonna look like?

You know?

I don't know.

Am I ever gonna finish painting the damn room?

- What are some of your biggest coping skills now?

- Some of the things I do are sleep more, for sure.

Sleep is so important for me.

You know, even when I am well, if I miss a couple night's sleep, I'm less well, right?

I don't like myself when I'm really tired.

I do see a therapist regularly.

I'm not currently on meds, but I would go on meds this afternoon if it was back.

I have zero, you know, I'll do whatever I gotta do to not go back into that pit.

- What has talk therapy given you?

What has that experience been like?

- I think it's what was missing before I went into the worst depression, because had I been talking to someone once a month, once every other week, whatever it is, you know, if you say I can hardly get up or if you say I go to bed every night A-okay with not waking up in the morning, if you say, you'd have to say that once and the therapist would be like, "Whoa, whoa, let's talk about that."

- Right.

- I've always found someone at the right time, and it has helped immensely, you know?

I just think it's great to be able to say whatever it is you want to say.

(gentle music) I like the metaphor, I like all of it.

I like the value in seeing the beauty in the pieces and then we put ourselves back together, you know?

Everybody does.

It's not a depression thing.

Things break.

Hearts break, promises break, all sorts of things break.

Glass breaks, plates break.

And there's, for me, therapeutic value in putting them back together.

(gentle music continues) I think that it is one of my mental health management tools because I don't, I have to think just enough that I don't cut myself.

I have to think just enough that there's some balance in the colors.

It's not taxing.

So I'm not like stressed out by it.

It must be what knitting or something is like.

So I feel creative, I feel peaceful.

It's very zen for me.

(gentle music continues) - Elizabeth Cramer joins us now to talk more about "How We Heal," and stories like Terry's that you'll hear in the coming months.

Thanks for being here, Elizabeth.

- Thanks for having me.

- Well, first let's start off with the inspiration.

What inspired how we heal?

And it sounds, from the title of it, it sounds like it's a positive approach to mental health.

- Absolutely.

And I think our goal for this series is to make viewers feel comfortable having conversations about mental health in their own homes, and what healing looks like.

The inspiration for the series is really coming from my own mental health practice and years of being in the field, of treatments and mental health leadership, and seeing real people coming in who needed help, and didn't know what mental health treatment looked like until they needed it.

Until they said, I am not feeling good, or my kiddo is struggling, or my spouse is struggling with addiction, having real problems and then needing to look into treatment that they never thought they would have to.

It's a part of the health field that I think people don't really talk about it until it's too close to ignore, and those conversations are oftentimes uncomfortable.

So there's still a stigma around mental health.

It's hard to talk about in public, and I think it's hard for families to talk about at home.

- Well, we are shining a light here on Milwaukee PBS and on "10thirtysix," so in this first series that we just saw, it talks about the depression and the cognitive therapies.

What other aspects of mental health are we going to explore with this series?

- So Terry's story is not unique in that a lot of people struggle, especially with depression, anxiety, even passive suicidal thoughts, much more often than we think they do.

And that conversation continues next month with another guest that we're gonna have talking about their story and losing their spouse to suicide.

But other modalities that we'll be featuring on the series will be equine therapy, art therapy, music therapy, outdoor therapy.

There's so many different therapies out there, and the goal is to let people know that they exist, that they can get these treatments, that they can get help, and that they can heal.

- How can people maybe identify when they're at that point where they might need help?

Because like you said, sometimes you're so close to it, you don't really know what are some ways that maybe you can find yourself seeking help.

- Mm-hmm.

I think there's many ways, aside even from recognizing your own emotions.

So I think one step and hopefully some education that comes from this series, is helping people to know when they're not okay.

Because even that question is a bigger question, right?

Like when am I sad and when am I really, really sad?

Some people don't know that distinction.

And beyond that, I think having conversations with people you trust and being able to connect, and hearing other people's stories, so that you can hear someone say like, "I was not okay and when I realized I was not okay, that's when I went to go get help, or I told someone or I went to the doctor."

And then you can reflect on yourself and say, "You know what?

That sounds a lot like my story.

Maybe I need some help."

- That's great to hear.

And I think on that note, as a psychotherapist, what do you see as perhaps the biggest challenge that we're facing right now with mental health, if you had to pick one?

- I think our biggest challenge is one that has been continuous, and that's the stigma around mental health.

And that stigma, even though we're so much further than what we were in having conversations about mental health, but it's still there.

It's still kind of an awkward conversation to have, especially if you've not had the practice of talking about it.

If you've never talked about your mental health, telling someone how you feel can be really vulnerable, so I think that our biggest challenge is just talking about it, and beyond that, we have a crisis.

We have a mental health crisis in our nation, and especially right here in Wisconsin, our suicide rates are increasing, and if we don't have these conversations, then I think those challenges are only gonna continue to grow.

- Elizabeth Cramer, thank you very much for being here, and for this series, "How We Heal," I think it's going to do, it's important work.

Thank you very much.

So if you need more information or you want resources on mental health, you can always go to our website, milwaukeepbs.org/hwh.

Healthcare, including mental health, is one of the issues many voters are concerned about this election year.

Veteran political journalist Craig Gilbert, formally with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and now a Lubar fellow at the Marquette Law School, shares his thoughts on the Republican National Convention here in Milwaukee and what voters need to be aware of when they go to the polls this year.

- For Republicans, I think they're gonna run a campaign about the economy and about immigration, and Democrats will run a campaign, probably, about abortion.

There'll be a debate over the economy, but that's, you know, one of the X factors for sure in this race, among many x factors.

And again, it doesn't take much to tip the outcome, but you've got, you know, the third party dynamic.

You've got the Trump trials, (laughs) you've got, you know, how these two candidates perform on the campaign trail at their ages, and whether they campaign even.

I mean we haven't talked about that, but one of the great oddities of this campaign, and certainly even of the primaries campaign, is there gonna be a campaign?

I mean is there gonna be a campaign involving the candidates?

There will be a campaign on the ground, and there'll be a campaign on the air.

But you could argue that both Biden and Trump are better off, you know, campaigning less, personally, rather than campaigning more.

- We will continue to have conversations with the community regarding important issues facing voters this election.

Watch for these civic dialogues in the coming months on our local programs.

You may have tuned into PBS's two-part docuseries "Gospel," where Henry Lewis Gates takes a closer look at the origin story of black spirituality through sermon and song.

We bring this back to Wisconsin with a powerful story of a 25-year-old musician spreading the good news through blending gospel and hip hop genres.

Producer Alexandria Mack shares his moving testimony grounded in overcoming doubt and health challenges with the help of faith, family and his music.

(Israel singing) - My faith hasn't been easy my whole life.

It's really been a back and forth and a wrestle at times, and then got a cancer diagnosis that would change my life.

(gentle music) My name is Israel Oby.

I go by RAEL the Artist, that's my stage name.

- [Alexandria] The name Israel means he who wrestled with God.

God of the wind and the waves Did I really fall in love or is it all just a phase Feel I'm buzzing off a drug How I've been singing your praise And been feeling I'm insane How I've been screaming your name - [Alexandria] And for the 25-year-old rapper, his music tells a story of fighting doubt with a love that's always been there.

- Music and faith.

I feel like they've both shaped my life so much in different ways.

I make music that's really a fusion of gospel and hip hop.

You lifted up my eyes All my sight's been higher Nothin' in the world could ever light my fire like you Gospel and hip hop, those are my two favorite genres.

I grew up on gospel.

I grew up listening to gospel music all the time.

My parents are pastors, so that's all they used to play.

- It started like when he was about one years old that he would just really get into the worship services where a lot of kids are coloring and playing, he was really focused on the music.

- Yes.

- And people would say, "Wow, he really loves to worship."

And we would say, Yeah he does."

(laughs) - And it was that connection with the music that he just really, it was something in him that he just connected with it and he really enjoyed it.

- When I went to college, I kind of had a falling out in my faith, and I had a long period of time where I wasn't sure if I really believed in God or not.

- [Alexandria] But like the Prodigal Son, Israel would find his way back with a new fire.

- [Israel] Around my junior year, I really had, what I believe, was a radical experience with God that kind of brought me back into my faith.

But in my heart of hearts I feel There's been a shift in my faith I feel like my life ain't been the same Since you did shown me your face It's like the light's been brighter As I grew older and kind of came into my own, I kind of got to a point where I needed to find faith for myself.

- [Alexandria] Setting ablaze a new ministry of his own, through music.

Overcame my demons, put 'em on a shirt this year - I started seeing my job as kind of a barrier to doing the things that I wanted to do, but that was really hard for me, 'cause it was a great job.

It paid well, it was secure, but I found that the job itself wasn't really satisfying me, because there was other things that I felt like God was really putting on my heart to do.

As I grew in my faith, and just my desire to get the message of my faith out more and tell more people about who God was, the more music grew on my heart.

Places I was hurt and pain you took away from me Feel like I'm on the cloud since you made a way in me - [Alexandria] And just as Israel had taken a leap of faith... - About a month before I ended up leaving my job, I was in like some pain, and as like the weeks got closer to me leaving my job, the pain kind of progressed more and more, and I started going to the doctor, like to figure out what it was.

- [Alexandria] He'd be rocked with news of a different growth happening in his body.

- I was actually on my way home one day and he called me and asked me could I pick up some medicine, or go to Walgreens and pick up something for him.

And when I got to him, got home, I jokingly said to him, "You're getting a lot of medicine.

What's going on with that?"

And he said, "Well, you know, there's something I gotta tell you."

- What I remember, they like put the, you know, the results in my MyChart, and I had looked at it, and was just in shock.

That's the only word that I have for it.

The form of cancer that I was diagnosed with was called diffuse large b-cell lymphoma.

By the time the doctors caught it, it actually had progressed to stage four, and diffuse large b-cell lymphoma is a very aggressive cancer, so it starts really suddenly and it grows pretty quickly.

And when my doctors caught it, they said that it is stage four, but it is still very curable at this stage.

- [Alexandria] But even in a space of uncertainty, Israel held on to a confident hope.

- It was really difficult and God really gave me a faith and a confidence that I was gonna come through on the other side of this, and that I was gonna be healed of my cancer and that everything that was going on with me physically in terms of my health would be resolved.

- And sometimes I would cry with Israel, and the tears were, just be watching him just go through the pain and the chemo and being sick.

And like any parent- - Mm-hmm.

- When your child is diagnosed with something, you know, like cancer, you almost feel like, "Okay God, just let it be me."

- [Alexandria] Despite sickness, the music reawakening his purpose.

I think I left Earth this year Beat cancer, got engaged and put in work this year - It was the thing that kind of kept me going.

And even when I had really hard chemo sessions, it was something that got me up, and I like I got a dream to pursue.

So it got me up, it got me working, and it guided me through.

- We would have moments where after chemo he would be very tired and just need to rest, but then as soon as he could get up and go, he would have 12-hour days where he's in the studio, perfecting the mix of the songs, trying to find different sounds, just working on it thoroughly, but then also too, working on ministry, and getting the church in a better position, and being a good boyfriend to me, and all these things that were phenomenal, so I think it just speaks to God's strength, 'cause I've seen Israel as a human going through something painful and tiring and depleting like cancer, but then I've seen God's strength come through.

I feel like I'm on a cloud Since you made a way in me - [Alexandria] Channeling the journey all back into his music.

You lifted up my frown You could see the change in me - There was times where I didn't know if I could believe.

There was times where my faith was really, really hard for me, and "Wind and Waves" was, I was in a moment where I really was just feeling grateful for who God is in my life, and just wanted to really write kind of a love letter to God that was extremely real and extremely personal.

God of the wind and the waves Did I really fall in love or is it all just a phase God of the wind and the waves After going through everything I went through and just seeing how God just transformed my heart and gave me peace and gave me excitement and gave me joy, even in the midst of what would be the hardest season of my life, it made me just really wanna shift my music to be more about God.

- [Alexandria] Rapping the gospel of health restored.

God's gonna heal all His people Way, way, too, too, many, too many People broken, for me - [Alexandria] And faith renewed.

- I think going through what I went through matured me a lot.

I think it gave me a very sober way of looking at life and recognizing that everything isn't sunshine and rainbows, that you will go through difficulties in life.

And oftentimes when you're trying to walk in faith, right, sometimes you go through more, right?

But through all of that, God is still good.

I need different (gentle music) - We will wrap up this edition of "10thirtysix" on that positive note.

(bright music) Remember, you can check us out on all of our media platforms.

Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time.

(bright music continues)