US Rep. Mark Pocan on Tariffs, Funding Cuts and Immigration

Zac Schultz:
If there’s one constant with Donald Trump as president, it’s that he creates a firehose of news. And just as it appears one topic will dominate the national conversation, another issue pops up. Joining us now to talk about the Democratic response to the first 100 days of Trump’s second term in office, is Congressman Mark Pocan. Thanks for your time today.

Mark Pocan:
Yeah, thanks, Zac. I appreciate having me.

Zac Schultz:
So from DOGE to immigration to tariffs, have Democrats really found an issue to focus on when it comes to responding to Trump?

Mark Pocan:
Well, I mean, I think we all should be focused on the economy, right? That was the number one issue for Donald Trump when he got elected. Half the people in exit polls said they voted on the economy. And it’s also the number one issue hurting Donald Trump right now. Whether it be the indiscriminate use of tariffs that’s, you know, blowing the stock market up and causing prices to continue to rise. His inability to lower costs. He promised to do it day one. It’s been just the opposite in most areas. And you know, the rule of law and the chaos and the flooding the zone of so much is really hard. And it’s kind of exhausting for people who are calling into the office trying to keep up with what’s going on.

Zac Schultz:
Well, so many of Trump’s actions have come through executive orders, and many of those are now being fought over in court. And even on the topic of tariffs, some of them are announced and then rolled back. So do you think the general public actually understands what’s happened versus what is just being talked about?

Mark Pocan:
You know, one of the things Donald Trump does well for himself, and that’s usually how he does things for himself, is he floods the zone with a lot of different messages on any given issue. So you may hear what you want to hear, but, you know, just take tariffs. You know, I would defy anyone to tell me exactly where we’re at on tariffs right now, because I don’t know if I could tell you. They’re on, they’re off. Some are on, some are off, a bunch are on. Penguins are paying tariffs. And I’m not sure where we’re at today. Right. I think tomatoes just got tariffs in Mexico. So you really can’t keep up with it. But the problem is we’re hearing from a lot of business people their costs are going up because of tariffs and things that aren’t even tariffed are going up because this is a backdoor way for people to raise other costs. So at the end of the day, people are going to start paying more and more for things as Donald Trump throws these tariffs out without a real plan. And, you know, targeted tariffs can be done well. If China is dumping cheap steel in the United States, we should absolutely respond with targeted tariffs. It’s a very effective tool. But if you use a screwdriver to pound a nail in, it’s not as effective. You can’t use the same tool for everything. And that’s what Donald Trump is doing. And at the end of the day, it’s just costing people in Wisconsin and across the country more money out of their pockets, which is the opposite of what he promised.

Zac Schultz:
We had your colleague, Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany, on last week, and he said tariffs are a negotiation tactic that will ultimately lead to lower tariffs globally. He said, “You would hope over the next couple of months that with these active negotiations going on, that we’re going to see some good things happen.” What would you make of his assessment?

Mark Pocan:
You know, I think he’s going to Minnesota and getting some medical marijuana or something because I’m not sure that is an answer that anyone else honestly believes, including other Republican members of Congress I talk to. They’re concerned about tariffs. I just had a company from, in our area — I’m not going to say the name of the company — but they sell a lot to China. It’s a higher medical device. Let’s just say. And because of that with the tariffs right now, their leading market — they’re going to have a much harder time of selling to that market. And most of their stuff, 70% here is sourced in the United States, 48% just in Wisconsin. So if you start stopping those sales because of the response tariffs and the indiscriminate use the way the president’s doing, they’re feeling a real impact. And I hear that from manufacturer after manufacturer in the area. So it’s not just that consumers are paying more, it’s that companies are going to start feeling this. And we’ve even heard of some building projects starting to be canceled because of increased costs on tariffed goods, like some of the lumber that has been coming from both Canada and Mexico and aluminum costs. So right now there is not a plan, right? I think when Donald Trump answered the question in the debate about health care. They said you have a plan? He said he had a concept of a plan. Everything seems to be a concept of a plan, not a plan. At some point, we really need plans.

Zac Schultz:
Eight years ago, it was Paul Ryan leading the House during Trump’s first two years, and Republicans were largely focused on passing tax cuts and really seemed to ignore most of Trump’s other agenda. A lot of those Republicans have been replaced in Congress with Trump loyalists. So what, from your perspective, what is the difference between then and now when it comes to the Republican majority in Congress?

Mark Pocan:
Well, let me clarify one thing. The Holy Grail for the Republicans is still this tax cut for the wealthiest. That’s what they’re trying to get done by Memorial Day. I don’t think they’ll get it done by then. But the trillion and a half dollars they’re trying to steal from the middle class and those who aspire to be in the middle class through things like health care and long-term care through Medicaid, food assistance for kids, the number one program that keeps kids out of poverty, a 45% cut to federal funding for education. All of that is to pay off this tax cut that originally was estimated at $4.5 trillion dollars to extend it. Now, the Joint Committee on Taxation said, no, it’s $5.5 trillion. And that’s all money literally stolen from working class people to go to Elon Musk and Donald Trump and people who can afford to go to Mar-a-Lago. So even though the faces may have changed, the Holy Grail has not. But when you flood the zone and make people think that, you know, we’re going to talk about Greenland or Canada becoming the 51st state, things that are never going to happen, then you’re not talking about the money that’s being stolen out of your wallets in order to give Elon Musk a tax cut. And that’s why I think it’s really important that we remember, there is no difference in their agenda. It is always about their donors and the wealthiest in this country. Even more so now that you’ve got Donald Trump in office and Elon Musk, an unelected billionaire turning on and off federal funds, turning off funds for programs that middle class people rely on. So I really just want to keep the focus on that.

Zac Schultz:
You’ve been part of a trend of Democratic members of Congress holding town halls in Republican districts. And part of this is to call out Republicans for not holding their own public forums. But what are you hearing from people? Are they just local Democrats coming to talk to a Democrat, or are they other constituents?

Mark Pocan:
Yeah, this is the ultimate common-sense test, right? It doesn’t pass the smell test. If you say you’re doing something good for the American people, but instead of doing town halls to share that information, you’d want to go on the rooftop, right, with a megaphone and scream it if you’re doing something good. You’re hiding in your basement and not doing town halls. And Republican leadership has told Republican members not to do town halls. Well, I smell that. And that smells pretty bad. What they’re doing, again, is stealing money from us to do this tax cut. So I’m going to make sure that people in Wisconsin aren’t getting ripped off. So I’ve done several town halls in Derrick Van Orden’s district. He’s never done an open, public town hall in two and a half years. So, you know, people want to be heard. I did one last week in La Crosse, and 350 plus people showed up. They want to talk about those cuts to Medicaid and long-term care. Don’t forget that’s 1.3 million people in Wisconsin. 55% of seniors in nursing homes get help from Medicaid. One out of three kids in Wisconsin gets their health insurance from Medicaid. So, you know, that’s why they’re hiding in their basements, because they don’t want to talk about what they’re actually doing. And just the opposite needs to happen. People need to be heard. That’s why the turnout was so big in that April election. People just want to be heard. And that’s why we’re doing the town halls to make sure people can be heard.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Congressman Mark Pocan, thanks for your time today.

Mark Pocan:
Yeah. Thank you.