Frederica Freyberg:
Governor Tony Evers has until next Tuesday to decide whether to veto his own maps. He has said he will sign them into law, but many fellow Democrats see the Legislature’s move to pass Evers’ maps as a trick. Among them, Democratic State Senator Mark Spreitzer. Senator, thanks very much for being here.

Mark Spreitzer:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
So are you among those who wanted the governor to veto his own maps and hold out for the Supreme Court’s choice?

Mark Spreitzer:
I trust Governor Evers to make this decision and to consult with his lawyers and figure out what the best path to fair maps is. Obviously, his map is one of four fair maps that are pending before the state Supreme Court. I do trust the state Supreme Court to make the decision on what the best map is, whether that’s one of these for or whether to make any tweaks or anything to any of those four maps. I also trust Governor Evers to decide if signing this map is the best path to get fair maps that we can all have going forward. There was a question with what actually came before the state Assembly and the state Senate to vote on, that although it was a clean version of the governor’s map, we had a question about whether the bill itself was a clean bill because it doesn’t cause the map to take effect until this fall’s election. And right now, we have a map that is unconstitutional, that the Wisconsin Supreme Court has said can’t be used for any future elections and there’s a recall effort against Speaker Robin Vos. There’s a special election that’s needed in the Fourth Senate District, and so there’s some unanswered questions if this bill is signed into law about what map those elections are held on and what map exists between now and November. Those questions could be answered by going back to the state Supreme Court and trying to get clarity, but that’s something I think Governor Evers needs to look at as he’s making this decision. And then we also just need to make sure that there’s not any Republican tricks that would somehow make it easier for them to choose what court to appeal to and maybe get a conservative federal court to intervene here and stop us from having fair maps. Those are all the things that are on my mind and that I hope are on Governor Evers’ mind as he makes this decision.

Frederica Freyberg:
So on those two points, does it matter to you at all that the Legislative Reference Bureau reports that it added the language to the bill saying the maps would first take effect for the November 2024 election?

Mark Spreitzer:
I think there’s a question of intent and there’s a question of effect. So I take the Legislative Reference Bureau at its word that they added that language and weren’t directed to add it for any political purpose, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have a political outcome, and I think it still leaves open the question of what maps say the Vos recall should be held on and any future special elections and LRB said that this is sort of the normal procedure, but we’re not in normal circumstances. We normally aren’t doing a redistricting process mid-decade because the state Supreme Court has found the existing map to be unconstitutional. So I think there’s still some questions there and one of the really unfortunate things and one of the things that cemented my “no” vote was that even though Republicans announced the week before their intention to vote on this map, they didn’t actually put the amendment out to the public or to legislators in advance. They didn’t go through the normal committee process. I’m the top Democrat on the committee that this underlined bill was in and normally we would vote in committee and maybe adopt the amendment with the maps in committee, but instead the bill was pulled out of committee without a vote at all. And we didn’t get the amendment that put the governor’s maps into place until we were actually on the Senate floor. That could have been put out all weekend for the public to look at and for people to weigh in, but no public hearing was held and this was really something that was decided in closed Republican caucus and brought forward at the last minute. And my question is why? If this is what you were going to do, why not just put it out for everybody to see and then we could have raised these questions in advance of the vote.

Frederica Freyberg:
As to the question of whether or not the passage of the governor’s maps opens the door to federal lawsuits, say, so many experts say that that is just not at all likely.

Mark Spreitzer:
I have certainly heard folks saying that’s not likely, and I hope it’s not likely. I hope that if this is the map, that we can all run on it and not risk further lawsuits, but I also know that they are very credible lawyers, like Mark Elias, who has won numerous cases on elected-related issues around the country who’ve raised concerns here. I have not had a chance to talk to him directly. I’m not a lawyer, and that’s something where, you know, I wanted to take the cautious approach and say, you know what, this is moving really quickly. We don’t have answers to these questions. I’m going to vote no, but the governor has plenty of lawyers around him that he’s talking to and I trust that if he decides this is the right thing to do, he’ll either sign or veto this accordingly.

Frederica Freyberg:
Going all the way back to the beginning and really with only about half a minute left, how surprised were you that the Republican Legislature took up and passed the Evers’ maps?

Mark Spreitzer:
I was surprised. Republican legislators just a couple of weeks ago were talking about how terrible these maps were, but I think they ultimately decided that they wanted to control the process here and control their own destiny, and that’s another reason I voted no. I don’t think politicians should be cherry-picking maps. I think the people of Wisconsin should be picking they’re politicians, their elected officials and so I just did not want to be in a position of deciding what map was best for political reasons. Leave that to the governor. Leave that to the court.

Frederica Freyberg:
Senator Spreitzer, thanks very much.

Mark Spreitzer:
Thank you for having me.