This Old House

Kevin: Today on "This Old House"... After an extended trip down South, we're shipping up to Boston -- well, 20 miles outside of Boston, to be exact -- to suburban Needham, Massachusetts, where for seven years, a family has been dreaming of renovating their 1896 historic home.

And that dream will become a reality today on "This Old House."

Man: Ahh.

That's it.

Kevin: What in the heck is going on here, pops?

Tom: Well, you called and you said you needed ham.

Kevin: Need ham?

No.

I said, "We're working in 'Need-ham.'"

The town "Need-ham."

Tom: It's not "Need-ham."

It's Needham, sonny.

Kevin: Needham?

Tom: Yeah, you've been here long enough.

You'd think you'd know that by now.

Kevin: Listen, growing up in Jersey, it's a tough adjustment.

You've got some funny-sounding towns here.

Tom: Yeah.

Like what?

Kevin: Well, uh, "Glou-chester."

Tom: It's not "Glou-chester."

It's Gloucester.

Kevin: "Wor-chester."

Tom: It's Worcester.

Kevin: [ Laughs ] I'm just saying.

Just because your family's been here forever.

They've probably named towns after you guys.

Tom: Yeah, like what?

Kevin: Ah, I don't know.

I was thinking Marblehead?

[ Tom laughs ] Or Athol.

Tom: Oh!

Kevin: I've always thought you were an "Athol."

[ Both laugh ] Tom: That hurt.

So we don't need the ham.

Maybe we can offer that to the homeowner.

Kevin: Let's go meet him, see what we think.

Tom: Sounds good.

Kevin: Do they know they live in "Need-ham"?

[ Tom laughs ] There they are.

Tom: Hey.

Kevin: Hey, guys.

Tom: How are you?

Kevin: Liz.

Patrick.

Nice to meet you.

Liz: Hi.

Kevin: Pleasure.

How are you?

Tom: How are you?

Nice to meet you.

Patrick, how are you?

Patrick: Nice to meet you.

Kevin: Oh, and who's this?

Liz: This is baby Ronan.

Kevin: Baby Ronan.

All right.

One of three, right?

Liz: Yeah.

Three boys.

Kevin: Three boys.

How old is he?

Liz: He's 8 months.

And he has a big brother, Declan, who's 17, and Brendan, who's 15.

Kevin: Very nice.

Tom: Wow.

That's fantastic.

So how long have you guys been in the house?

Patrick: We've been here about seven years now.

Tom: Seven years.

So what's your goals for the house?

I mean, what's your plans?

Patrick: So I think the biggest things we'd like to do is update the kitchen and bathrooms.

But in order to do that, we'd also like to add a little bit of space so that we can reconfigure those areas.

And so we're hoping to put an addition on the back.

Tom: Nice.

Kevin: And you haven't done anything yet?

Patrick: We've done very little work to the house since we moved in.

You know, we've been here since 2017, and by the time we really got settled, COVID hit.

And then a couple years later, our oldest son, Declan, was diagnosed with leukemia.

So he was in treatment for 2 1/2 years or so.

And so, you know, obviously we didn't want to do the work then, but he's doing great now.

And, you know, things are kind of back to normal.

So we're -- we're ready to do some work.

Tom: Fantastic.

Kevin: So if you haven't done anything to the house, do you know how long it's been since something's been done?

Liz: It's been over 30 years.

Tom: Whoa!

Kevin: So it's ready?

Liz: Yes.

Kevin: Sometimes a good thing.

It gives almost like a clean slate, right?

Patrick: Absolutely.

Kevin: All right, well, I'd love a tour.

Who wants to take me inside?

Liz: I'll show you.

Thanks.

Tom: I'd like to take a look out back, see what's going on there.

Kevin: All right.

Dad has the football.

So, Liz, I'll follow you.

Show me what we've got.

Liz: So it starts right at the front door.

This is original, and we love it.

But at one point, this lock got broken, so it's perpetually locked from the outside.

And we've had a couple locksmiths look at it, and they don't know how to fix it.

Kevin: Even the locksmiths couldn't.

Okay.

Liz: And then we have an issue here that we need to get underneath to fix, because -- you can see there -- there's a little bit of a ridge where it looks like the front is sinking a bit.

Kevin: It's opening up a little bit here at the seam.

So that sort of suggests that maybe there's some sort of support here and not here.

Liz: Right.

So there's basement under this area, but under here, under the front window, it's just footings, so it's hollow.

And it also gets kind of cold under here.

So we're hoping to insulate that better.

Kevin: Okay.

Nice room, though.

Liz: Yes.

Kevin: Is it a front living room or parlor?

What do you call it?

Liz: I usually call it a parlor, but I guess it's, like, more of the formal living room.

Kevin: Sure.

Liz: And it's a beautiful room.

We're not really changing much here, other than the flooring.

And then this is the only closet on the first floor, which is obviously... Kevin: So closet in here?

Yeah.

Liz: Yeah.

There's a closet in there.

And we have no idea why there is a stained-glass window in the closet.

Kevin: Because there was something else there at some point.

Liz: We can't figure out the original configuration, but obviously there was something different in there.

Kevin: When I see a window like that on an outside wall, I think, "Staircase," but yours is going the other way.

And you are...up three steps... Liz: Yep.

Kevin: ...down three steps.

Liz: Right.

Kevin: How do you feel about that?

Liz: We like it.

We like it.

Kevin: You do?

Liz: I think it's just quirky.

It's different.

Kevin: Well, that's good because you've got an old house.

So if you can embrace a little bit of quirk, you're gonna save yourself a lot of money.

This room in here is, uh... Liz: The family room.

Kevin: ...Ronan's domain.

Liz: Right.

Kevin: That's awesome.

Liz: The baby room.

And all the kids' books and everything are in the built-ins.

Kevin: I like the ceiling height.

And you got great light.

Liz: Yeah, we do.

It's a great room.

Um, but I just think it's a little odd to have the two living spaces right next to each other.

Kevin: It's kind of old-fashioned.

Liz: It's kind of old-fashioned.

And we also want to -- You know, we're taking down the chimney.

So what we're gonna do is make this the dining room, bring the wall forward, get rid of the chimney.

So this will be more of a hallway so people don't have to necessarily go up and over the stairs.

Kevin: I see.

Liz: But, also, if you don't go, you kind of have to go far around a corner.

Try to make it more cohesive.

Um, so this will be the dining room.

We're gonna save the built-ins and kind of build them out to make them look more dining-room-y.

Kevin: And so you're taking the chimney down because you no longer need it and you want the space?

Liz: Right.

We're gonna put a gas fireplace in the new family room in the back of the house.

Kevin: Okay.

So let's go in there.

And I've got to assume that the reason for switching these two rooms... Oh, this is really nice.

But I guess you want sort of the living space as close to the backyard?

Liz: Right.

Well, like you said, this is nice.

This is, like, the prettiest room, I think, in the house.

We have beautiful light, but it's kind of a drop zone because it's just the dining room and you just kind of walk through it.

There's no real reason to sit in here.

Kevin: But you've got this beautiful piece right here.

What happens to this?

Liz: That, we believe, is original to the house.

So we're gonna save that and move it into the dining room.

They're gonna build it in.

Kevin: Ah.

Okay.

So this becomes a family room.

And we get a little extra space by moving the wall.

Liz: Right.

So we're gonna move the wall back so it's a better size for a dining room and use some of that space for the family room.

And, also, we are gonna add on, um, out the back a bit so that we can make the family room bigger and also add a mudroom and a pantry.

Kevin: So there's a high chair next to a hockey gear bag.

Liz: Oh, right.

Kevin: You got it coming from both ends.

Liz: Yeah.

So you see the one closet is full of hockey equipment.

We've got hockey sticks behind the front door.

We have a hockey bag there 'cause it doesn't fit in our tiny mudroom that we have now.

So we want to expand the mudroom to fit hockey bags, hockey sticks, and all the other sports equipment.

So this wall's gonna come down.

Um, this will be all -- This will be a big island, and it'll be open to the new family room.

And then, with all this gone, we're gonna use this space for the kitchen, as well.

And the mudroom is gonna be behind it with a powder room over there.

Kevin: So this is a full bath.

So you got good room there.

And this is a full mudroom.

You've got, uh, helmets, book bags, hockey sticks, maybe a long-pole defensemen.

Liz: Right.

Kevin: This is crowded.

I can see why you want to make some improvements back here.

Liz: Right.

So this is gonna become actually a half bath, which will be here.

Kevin: So get rid of the full bath?

Liz: Get rid of the full bath.

We're adding one upstairs.

And then we're going to make this area a much bigger mudroom.

Kevin: Okay.

And you're gonna push off the back, you said.

How many square feet down here?

Liz: Yes.

We're gonna add about 230 feet on the back.

Kevin: And then a little bit up top, as well?

Liz: And match it upstairs, as well.

Kevin: Okay.

So on this side of the kitchen, which has got your sink, your corner windows, your big, old stove -- What's the plan for over here?

Liz: This area is gonna be a pantry.

So we're gonna have a utility sink in the pantry.

And we're gonna reuse these cabinets in there and add some lowers and some shelving, as well.

Kevin: When I walked in here, I was thinking -- You said the house hadn't been touched in 30 years.

This does not look like a 30-year-old kitchen.

This looks pretty good.

You didn't do this?

Liz: No, we didn't.

It is a 30-year-old kitchen.

Actually, more than 30 years.

But they did a great job, you know, picking really high-quality materials.

And all we did in here was, we changed the backsplash to update it.

And it was a little dated.

And then we added this island.

Kevin: And you're telling me that they did this, too?

I was thinking, like, a four-burner white stove, but this thing?

Liz: Right.

Yeah, they did.

They put in a commercial-grade stove.

And the issue with it is that it's too powerful for us.

Kevin: Wait, so too powerful?

Liz: Yeah.

So you can't simmer anything.

Kevin: You're a hockey family.

You don't simmer anything anyway.

Sounds like you got a plan down here.

How about upstairs?

Liz: Right.

Okay.

Tom: So, are you excited about getting started?

Patrick: Absolutely.

Tom: Yeah.

It should be a fun project.

Hey, Jenn.

Jenn: Good morning, guys.

Where's the baby?

Patrick: No baby with me right now.

He was getting a little tired, so we had to put him down for his morning nap.

Jenn: Aww.

Well, next time, I can't wait to meet him.

But I've had a little bit of time to look around your yard.

It's a great space, but I know there's a few changes you'd like to make.

So what's your wish list?

Patrick: Yeah, definitely want to make some changes.

I think the biggest thing is lowering the maintenance.

Jenn: Okay.

Patrick: For me, uh, you know, so we have a lot of plantings that, while they're beautiful, they grow very aggressively, require a lot of pruning.

And so I'd really like to cut back on that.

And, uh, I understand that when we put the addition on, we're gonna have to take up this brick walkway, which we love.

Tom: Yeah.

When we dig for the foundation, you have to overdig for the guys to get in there and work.

And so all this brick will have to come up.

Jenn: But we could save it, put it on a pallet, and use it for a patio.

Patrick: That'd be great.

Tom: So are you talking about over here at all with the brick?

Patrick: Yeah, that would be great.

And having less mulch would also be great because this washes into the driveway when it rains.

Tom: I'm not a landscaper, but my eyes said this is a problem right here underneath the brick patio.

That will just lift the patio right up, right?

Jenn: You're absolutely right, Tommy.

I mean, this is a river birch, and it's just -- it's a very aggressive tree.

It'll buckle the patio no matter what.

So I think it needs to go, unfortunately.

So that brings me to the rest of the yard.

What do you think of this space?

Patrick: Yeah.

So this is a landscaping that we inherited.

First of all, the frog pond should really go.

It's just a lot of maintenance.

Jenn: Oh, yeah.

Patrick: And it takes up a ton of space.

Jenn: Mm-hmm.

Patrick: So what we'd like to do is tear all this out and put in some grass so that the boys have more room to play.

Jenn: I think that sounds like a great idea.

And this pergola, this thing has seen better days, I think.

Tom: Oh, yeah.

I mean, it looks like somebody tried to fix the rotted post by wrapping PVC around it.

Jenn: Yeah.

Tom: That'll come down in about two seconds.

Jenn: Yeah, I better move.

If that's gone, this patio doesn't belong anywhere now.

Then you have your playing field.

Patrick: Yeah.

We would love that.

Jenn: Alright.

And then if we go all the way to the back, you know, we could reuse and repurpose some of your shrubs and plug in some empty spots.

Patrick: That all sounds amazing.

Tom: So you're gonna put an addition off the back.

It's gonna be two stories bumped out about eight feet.

Correct?

Patrick: Correct.

Tom: I know the original plan was to take all the windows and all the siding off and change it.

Patrick: Well, we definitely want to replace all the siding and all the windows when we can, but whether or not it's in the budget remains to be seen.

Tom: Yeah.

I mean, you could save probably in this project, 20% if you didn't do it now and did it later because that can always be married in to the new siding that you choose out here.

And this is aluminum siding.

You can tell the aluminum siding by sound.

[ Tapping ] But also when you take your hand and you rub it on it, the white like that, that's called chalking.

And it's designed so that dirt and dust that forms on the building, when it rains, it washes off because it can't stick to the chalk.

That's why they do it.

But it would be interesting to see what's underneath this siding.

This is all gonna get stripped off here.

I could take a little piece off and see the shingles.

I know the shingles because I looked at a different spot, but let's look right here, see if I can bend this back and take a piece off.

I bend this over.

The problem is, is when you take this siding off, you have a whole new issue to deal with because of the age of the house and because the type of paint that was used.

It's probably gonna be lead paint.

That means that you're gonna have to have a certified person strip off all the lead.

Alright.

So, they put this foil on here because that's a radiant reflector or barrier.

Keeps the heat from the hot sun out of the building in the summer.

So you have 4 1/2-, 5-inch reveal.

You can see that paint is really flaking and chipping, and it's probably lead paint, so we'll have to have that tested to verify.

But to me that looks like lead.

We got our work cut out for it, that's for sure.

Jenn: And you have a few decisions to make.

Tom: Oh, yeah.

Patrick: Yes, we do.

Tom: Can't wait to get started.

Kevin: Staircase to the second floor.

Liz: So there are three bedrooms on this floor and two upstairs.

Kevin: Okay.

Liz: And this is Ronan's room.

Kevin: Oh, the little man's got a good room.

Liz: Right.

Yeah, it's a big room.

And he's got that separate little study area.

The only thing that's changing is he's gonna get another closet.

Kevin: So you keep him right next to you guys, right next to the primary.

Right?

Liz: Yes.

Kevin: Oh, this is nice.

Wow.

A lot of light, high ceilings.

Liz: Yeah, it's a big room.

Kevin: Yeah.

Liz: That's the closet that's going to be closed off and given to Ronan.

Kevin: Turn it to face the other way.

Liz: Right.

Kevin: Any other changes in here?

Liz: Not in this part of the room.

But the big change is gonna be through there.

Kevin: Okay.

Well, I can see why you wouldn't change this, but go ahead, lead on.

I'm gonna follow the black cord going back to wherever.

What's the story with this?

Liz: The only cable outlet was here in this sort of dressing room, closet, quarter bath?

Kevin: Wow.

So it's carpeted.

Not a bathroom, but it's got double sink vanity.

So it is a bathroom.

And Ronan gets to hang out.

I don't know what it is.

It's weird.

Liz: Yeah.

It's interesting.

We weren't really sure what was going on here.

It was an improvement over our last house for sure because we have a lot more counter space and vanity, but we are looking to make this into a full bath and closet area.

Kevin: So you're gonna bump off the back.

It's on this side, right?

So you'll pick up space off the back?

Liz: On the addition on the back, we're gonna turn that area into the primary bathroom and closet.

Kevin: Okay, so you pick up all this space and then you've got a shared bath in here that you guys were taking advantage of?

Liz: Right.

This is the only full bath on the second floor.

So we share it with the other two bedrooms.

And right now there's only a shower.

So we have to put a little baby tub in there for Ronan.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

No tub up here.

Liz: No.

Kevin: Now you need one.

Liz: Yes, we do.

Kevin: Alright.

Liz: We also have a little bit of a mold issue that's just started recently.

So we need to deal with that as well.

Kevin: So changes to the bathroom coming?

Liz: The bathroom's going away completely and being moved over there.

Kevin: Ah.

So are you gonna -- what?

-- flip it with a bedroom and you got extra space because the addition goes off the back of the house?

Liz: Yeah.

So the bedroom that's here now is gonna get pushed back and the bathroom is gonna go here with a bathtub, and that's gonna be shared for the two bedrooms.

Kevin: And laundry up here, which you must like.

Right?

Liz: Right.

We love having laundry on the second floor.

But because the chimney is going away, we're gonna have room for a utility sink and a bigger laundry room.

Kevin: So a nice laundry room gets even nicer?

Liz: Yes.

Kevin: That's good.

And it's one fewer room that Richard has to replumb.

So that's good.

Although trust me, he's gonna have other things to say about your house.

Liz: I'm sure.

Kevin: Nice.

Charlie: Hey, Richard, here's your favorite place.

Richard: Oh.

Another basement, Charlie.

Thank you.

Charlie: And behind this wall here is a finished playroom, the only finished space in the basement.

Richard: Okay.

Charlie: This is mechanical and storage in this space.

Richard: Good.

Charlie: On the other side of these bookshelves and stone foundation is gonna be our new foundation.

We're going about eight feet out, 30 feet in width.

And that will be our new exercise room in the basement.

Richard: So on the other side of that wall is all this new space right there, the new foundation?

Charlie: And you would think a straight line coming down here, we'd cut an opening through this stone foundation to make an access.

Richard: But you're not gonna?

Charlie: Not gonna.

Budget concerns.

Access is gonna be right around the corner where that window is.

Richard: Okay, I see that window.

And just what?

You just cut the stone away right there?

And that saved some money?

Charlie: It does.

It's already headed off.

Richard: Okay, cool.

Alright.

Now, will this place ever become a finished basement?

Do I have to worry about modifying any of this ductwork?

Charlie: No.

It's staying mechanicals and storage only.

Richard: Okay, well, I did a little history hunting and look what I found.

This is actually the outline of the original coal-fired furnace.

Coal chute would have come in over here.

You can actually see the remnants of some of the old connections.

This would have been a floor register, and it would have been before electricity.

So it would have been coal-fired, and it just would have come up through the first-floor registers and the second-floor registers.

Well, somebody did a really nice job with this system where they tied onto those -- those -- not to the ductwork.

They probably ran new ductwork, but they ran onto those registers and they zoned the system, two zones, one on the top floor and one on the bottom floor.

So now they come down to here.

There's a damper up in here.

And then look at this.

This is about 10, 12 years old and it's a gas-fired furnace.

It's super efficient, direct vent to outside, efficient.

It heats up the air.

It also has air-conditioning with it that modulates it and a two-zone system with really good filtration.

I know.

We come to these houses all the time and we always just say, "Let's blow it up."

I'm not sure we really need to do.

Do they complain about any operating costs or comfort?

Charlie: Nope.

No complaints.

Richard: Alright.

I think we just sort of keep this out as a budget item for now.

Unless somebody comes along and wants this all to be finished.

And if we start modifying this ductwork enough, then maybe we change it all out.

But for right now, I'd say leave it.

Okay?

Charlie: Good with me.

Richard: On the third floor, I want to show you something, though.

Charlie: Okay.

Up here in the third floor, we have two bedrooms, a full bath, and really no plans to touch this space.

Richard: Alright, well, this original ductwork never came up here, so somebody added a separate system.

You can see the thermostat here.

Here's the return.

I was up here snooping around a little earlier, and what I did was I looked at the air handler that sits up here and checked out the installation.

And what I also did is I stuck a thermometer up in here.

So what do you see?

Charlie: 120?

Richard: 120.

Charlie: It's not even the heart of the summer yet.

Richard: It's unbelievable.

So think about it.

Somebody put this air handler in up here.

They put it and they put it above the insulation.

So it's sitting with no insulation outboard of it.

So now that means it's trying to cool today.

It wants to make 60-degree air.

It's sitting in 120 degrees.

It's working twice as hard as it should.

In the winter, it's even worse.

I see it all the time.

So you thought you had no work up here.

There's a little bit of insulation.

Charlie: A little bit of work.

Richard: Just a little bit.

Charlie: We can handle it though.

It's gonna make it better.

Jenn: Okay, Mark, this is Brendan, and he's here to help us today.

Not sure if it was his idea or his parents.

Brendan: It was mine.

Jenn: It was him.

It was him.

Mark: Alright.

Great answer.

Jenn: Good answer, good answer.

So we're gonna lift all this brick, put it on a pallet, and we're gonna incorporate it into a new patio.

Mark: Okay.

Excellent.

Reuse I always love.

To get started, I have my brick hammer.

That's gonna let me get in and it's gonna be easy to peel these brick back.

We're just gonna keep going until all the brick are on pallets.

Brendan, you'll get a brick tong.

Clamp that brick.

Walk it over to the pallet.

We're gonna stack them.

Jenn: You don't have to go to the gym today, yeah?

Mark: You're gonna go the opposite way on the second tier.

Jenn: Alright.

I think this is as heavy as we could get this pallet.

Mark: And we are done.

Charlie: Now the bricks are out of the way.

We can start removing this deck because this is where the new addition is going.

Tom: Right.

I was looking at these railings and they may be able to repurpose them.

Alright.

Here's the first one.

Charlie: Alright.

Tom: Ready?

I'm gonna give it a little kick.

Charlie: Go ahead.

Got it.

If we can't use them here, I'm sure we can find a home for them.

Tom: Oh, I have no doubt.

Got it?

Charlie: Yep.

I think we should just cut it up in sections.

A couple of floor joists at a time.

Tom: We'll use a machine and take each section and throw it right in the dumpster.

Boy, we made some pretty good progress out here today.

Charlie: We really did.

So a little bit more selective demo to go on the porch.

We're gonna bring an excavator in next and excavate this entire area for the new basement.

Tom: That's gonna be great.

And we got a lot of demo to do inside.

What we really want to do also is take out all the kitchen cabinets, save some of them for a pantry area.

So I think we've made some great progress and looking forward to that.

So until next time, I'm Tom Silva.

Charlie: And I'm Charlie Silva.

Tom: Here in Needham, Massachusetts, for "This Old House."

And that's Needham, not Need-ham.

Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"... Tom: I'll show you a few tips on removing kitchen cabinets that are gonna be reused.

Alright, you got it there, sonny?

Kevin: I do.

And we've got not one, not two, but three concrete pours to form the foundation for the new addition.

Mark: Then we're gonna remove this chimney from top to bottom, brick by brick.

Charlie: You realize there's 3 1/2 stories of brick here, right?

Mark: We're gonna need a bigger boat.

Charlie: A boat?

Mark: Or a dumpster.

Charlie: That makes more sense.