PBS News Hour

AMNA NAWAZ: Also today, President Trump# signed orders to impose 25 percent tariffs## on all steel and aluminum imports to the U.S.# Two key American allies, Canada and Mexico,## would be significantly impacted.

But so# would American businesses and consumers.

For more, I'm joined by Greg Ip, chief economics# commentator at The Wall Street Journal.

Greg, welcome back.

It's good to see you.

Let's start with this announcement then of# 25 percent steel and aluminum .. days ago, you wrote in your column that the# early verdict on tariffs was bad economics,## better politics.

Does this latest# announcement here fit in with that pattern?

GREG IP, The Wall Street Journal: Well,## only time will tel.. We know from Trump's first term that, when he# imposed similar tariffs on steel and aluminum,## the result was to create some additional# domestic production and jobs in the steel## and aluminum industries, but to# significantly raise costs and cause## a lot of harm in the industries# that consume steel and aluminum.

And that harm was compounded when# our trading partners retaliated## against those tariffs.

And so the net# effect was an economic negative.

Now,## fast-forward to today.

When President Trump a# week earlier said that he was going to impose## 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico, we saw# a very negative reaction in the stock market.

That too suggests that investors expect that## the net effect on the economy of# these tariffs will be negative.

AMNA NAWAZ: We should point out too that# there's an intention here to target China## in some way.

China is not one of the top# steel or aluminum suppliers to the U.S. And there are already existing tariffs on# Chinese steel and aluminum even from the## previous administration.

So how would this latest# potential move here, how could that impact China?

GREG IP: So I think that the --# certainly, Trump's first administration,## and to some extent the Biden administration, made# a distinction between China and everybody else.

There was a recognition that China was# a strategic competitor to the United## States and that it did not adhere to the# rules of global trade as other countries## understand it.

And so there was a better# case for imposing high tariffs on China,## notwithstanding the harm that that would# cause to those who import things from China.

In this case, the president is not# really making that distinction.

He's## saying tariffs on everybody, whether or# not you're an ally.

And that's because## the motive here is to try and protect# the U.S. steel and aluminum industries.

Now, to be sure, China, even though it's not the# specific -- it's not being singled out in these## tariffs, it's sort of there in the background,# because one of the concerns that folks have had## about tariffs and about China in the past is that,# even when there are tariffs on Chinese steel,## it comes in through third countries, where# China sells steel cheaply to one country.

That country's industry suffers, and it# sells its steel to the United States.

So## there might be in a roundabout way an# effort to get at China.

But that is,## I think, kind of secondary.

What Trump is# saying here is, he is willing to impose very## high tariffs indefinitely to protect# industries that are important to him.

AMNA NAWAZ: Is it clear to you, though, what the# actual goal is here for the Trump administration,## especially when it comes to Canada and Mexico,# the other tariffs that he's postponed as well?

GREG IP: Well, Trump's adviser has put# forth many different justifications for## tariffs.

They will tell you, for# example, that there's a difference## between tariffs that are intended# for negotiation or punitive tariffs.

That's the tariffs that were threatened# against Mexico and Canada as a way to get## them to act on American concerns about the inflow# of illegal migrants and fentanyl.

And then there's## a different bucket, which they call structural# tariffs or strategic tariffs.

And these are kind## of indefinite.

And they're meant to inculcate# long-term economic and political changes,## such as strengthening the U.S. manufacturing base# or raising revenue that can help pay for tax cuts.

So the tariffs that were punished --# threatened against Mexico and Canada a## week ago fall into that first bucket.

They were# not, at least if you listen to the president,## intended to be there forever, just# long enough until Mexico and Canada## did act.

And it appears that they# are acting on American concerns.

The tariffs that the president announced# today on steel and aluminum and the ones## that he said are coming, the so-called# reciprocal tariffs on everybody,## those are probably more in this second bucket# of structural, open-ended tariffs.

And we can## expect those to be in place for a very long time,# because the problems that they're addressing,## the very large trade deficit, are# not going away in just a few months.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Greg Ip,## chief economics commentator at The Wall# Street Journal, .. Greg, thank you so much.

Good to speak with you.

GREG IP: Thanks for having me.