PBS News Hour

JOHN YANG: Good evening.

I'm John Yang.# Geoff Bennett and Amna Nawaz are away.

On the "News Hour" tonight: House# Republicans reject a Senate deal to## end the partial shutdown, even# as airport lines grow longer.

Israel targets Iran's nuclear# facilities while Iran tries## to assert more control over the Strait of Hormuz.

And an Army veteran faces conspiracy charges# after participating in an anti-ICE protest.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA, U.S.

Army Veteran: These are# the things that, when I joined the military,## I thought I was joining to protect.

You have# a right as an American to voice your opinion.

(BREAK) JOHN YANG: Welcome to the "News Hour."

It has been a dizzying and dramatic 24 hours# in the halls of Congress.

Early this morning,## the Senate unanimously passed# a plan to immediately end the## shutdown for most of the Department of# Homeland Security.

But, within hours,## House Speaker Mike Johnson rejected it because it# didn't include money for ICE and Border Patrol.

Now House Republicans are pursuing a different# approach and risking a longer shutdown.

Meanwhile,## President Trump took executive action to# pay one group, TSA workers at airports.

Congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins is## here to help us understand all# this, if we can't understand it.

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

JOHN YANG: TSA workers are## really the ones that have been focused on# .. LISA DESJARDINS: Let's start with them.

They haven't been paid yet, but.. President Trump signed that executive order today.

He would use money that was passed# last year from -- borrow it from the One## Big Beautiful Bill Act.

The TSA tells us that# they expect those workers to be paid by Monday.

Now, of course, all this speaks to those long# lines that Americans have been seeing at some## airports.

We do know there's a permanent effect.# Some 500 TSA workers have quit the job altogether## so far.

One of our senior producers spoke to TSA# union operative -- officer named Johnny Jones.

He said that they are appreciative, but no one's# counting on this money until it actually appears## in their bank accounts.

In addition, Jones# told our producer Murrey Jacobson that they## were stunned to realize that President# Trump could have done this.

This is the## same kind of money he's used to already# pay military members of the Coast Guard.

And one more thing, Jones said they are all tired# of being used as what they feel is as pawns.

JOHN YANG: You know, we started the# day thinking this had been settled,## that there was a deal.

What happened?

LISA DESJARDINS: OK.

Let me take you through# this; 2:30 in the morning this morning,## a rainbow suddenly appeared over the# United States Senate, as it happens.

Behind-the-scenes work had led to this deal,# and the Senate unanimously agreed on this deal## that would fund most of DHS, three-quarters# of it, everything but ICE and Border Patrol.

And, at that time, the funding formula that# they passed was exactly what Democrats wanted,## but Democrats did not get any# of the reforms that they wanted,## which is something that# Senate Leader Thune stressed.

SEN.

JOHN THUNE (R-SD): The reason that# we're standing here right now passing a## funding bill with a list of reforms, if# Democrats had made the smallest effort## to actually reach an agreement.

But# they didn't, because it's now clear## to everyone Democrats didn't actually# want a solution.

They wanted an issue.

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, that's what he said.

The# Senate passed that.

The Senate leaves Washington## altogether, convinced everything was fine.# The House comes in and, surprisingly to a lot## of people, rejected the deal, surprisingly# to the House, to the senators themselves.

In fact, for House Speaker Mike Johnson, it wasn't# a rainbow.

It was a mirage.

He called it a joke.

REP.

MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The reason that# we can't accept this ridiculousness, OK,## is because we're not going to# risk not funding the agencies## that keep the American people safe.

The# Department of Homeland Security is the## third largest department in the federal# government.

It has 10 agencies beneath it.

It's not just TSA.

It's# also FEMA, the Coast Guard,## all these agencies that keep us safe.# We must fund them.

This is not a game.

LISA DESJARDINS: Now, what this# is, is more complicated.

Now,## they want a deal to fund DHS# for 60 days.

But, of course,## now, then the Senate would have to approve# that.

And, there, they need Democratic votes.

Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer already# is defiant.

He's saying, no, this is dead on## arrival over there.

So what we have right# now is both chambers leaving for a two-week## spring break.

And that's why we think this# shutdown very likely will just continue.

JOHN YANG: And where has President# Trump been in all of this?

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

I talked to a se.. "let the Hill work this out."

Now, the president# did cast a little bit of shade on the Senate bill,## but he basically seems to be staying out# of it, saying he understands both sides.

That's a problem.

He's not leading here, as we# have Senate Republicans being more pragmatic,## looking for something that can pass, and House# Republicans being more righteous, looking for## what they think is right in all of this.

That# divides also political risk for Republicans.

They say Democrats started this shutdown,## but really they're the ones right now# who can't seem to get on the same page.

JOHN YANG: So where are we now?

And# what's next?

What can come next?

LISA DESJARDINS: OK, let's see us talk about# this.

First of all, DHS is the third largest## agency in U.S.

government.

So, many# workers, even with TSA being paid,## are going to go again without pay.

They've# been with more than a month now without pay.

So the White House and the Senate heading# toward this two-week break means this is## a shutdown of historic proportions.# Even though it is just a limited one,## to one agency, here you see all the shutdowns# since 1980.

This is the last year's one there.## You see the highest one, 43 days in yellow, the# partial shutdowns, the current one, 40 days.

Now, let's see what happens if we go# this two-week recess without any deal,## which is where we are right now.

Then# we have the longest shutdown in American## history.

Even though it's one agency,# it's a very large one.

So what's next?

The House is on track to vote tonight on# its plan.

The Senate has left town.

Usually,## I like to give viewers a very clear sense# of what is next, John, but, to be honest,## no one knows.

And what we know for workers,# other than TSA and Coast Guard military,## for DHS workers, many of them just don't know# where their pay is going to come from or when.

JOHN YANG: Lisa Desjardins, thank you very much.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

JOHN YANG: Secretary of State Marco Rubio said# today that the United States could achieve its## goals in Iran without ground troops,that despite# the deployment of thousands of Marines to the## Persian Gulf and reports that many more# U.S.

personnel could be on the way soon.

A senior regional diplomatic source# tells the "News Hour" there's no## agreement between the United States and# Iran on direct talks or even a venue for## them.

The proposals from both sides have# been maximalist, which leaves the region,## the world one month into this# war and an apparent impasse.

Ali Rogin reports.

ALI ROGIN: Today in Tehran, a scene of# horror.

Rescue workers dig through the## rubble, looking for the living and the dead,# a lifeless body hanging from the destruction,## as onlookers pray to end the suffering# and comfort a community in grief.

After Israel overnight launched a# new wave of strikes across Iran,## the head of the Iranian Red Crescent# Society today condemned the attacks.

PIRHOSSEIN KOLIVAND, Head, Iranian Red# Crescent Society (through translator):## Claims that only military areas are# targeted and not residential.. are completely false.

They're lying.

All the# areas being hit now are residential.

Around## 20,399 commercial units where people# work have been damaged and targeted;## 290 medical centers have been targeted.

ALI ROGIN: Israel's military said it targeted## sites used for military purposes and had# warned Iran to stop its missile attacks,## with Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz# today promising to escalate the bombing.

ISRAEL KATZ, Israeli Defense Minister (through# translator): Despite the warnings, the firing## has continued and therefore IDF strikes in Iran# will escalate and expand to addi.. and areas that assist the regime in building and# operating weapons used against Israeli civilians.

ALI ROGIN: And, today, Israel struck the# Khandab heavy water research reactor in## Arak in Central Iran, claiming Iran was# in the process of rebuilding the nuclear## energy complex, having first struck the# site during the 12-day war last June.

This comes as Secretary of State# Marco Rubio, after discussing the## war in Iran with his G7 counterparts, said# the American campaign was nearing its end.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S.

Secretary of State: # We are on or ahead of schedule on that## operation and expect to conclude# it at the appropriate time here,## in a matter of weeks, not months,# and the progress is going very well.

ALI ROGIN: And that the United States# was on standby to negotiate with Iran.

QUESTION: Is it your understanding# that they'll convey their response to## the 15-point plan today?

And are you# looking for anything in particular?

MARCO RUBIO: We haven't gotten it yet.

We# haven't gotten it yet.

Look, we've got messages.## We've had an exchange of messages and indications# from the Iranian system, whatever's left of it,## about a willingness to talk about certain things.

We're waiting for further clarification# about who will we allow -- who is it## that we would be talking to,# what we'll be talking about,## and when we'll be talking.

I don't# have any news for you on that yet.

ALI ROGIN: Rubio also spoke# on the day-after scenario## regarding Iran's grip on the Strait of Hormuz.

MARCO RUBIO: It's dangerous to the world,# and it's important that the world have a## plan to confront it.

The United States# is prepared to be a part of that plan.

ALI ROGIN: French Foreign Minister# Jean-Noel Barrot echoing Rubio that## the strait's closure was unacceptable to Europe.

JEAN-NOEL BARROT, French Foreign Minister# (through translator): Today, we are adopting## a new statement on Iran at the level of foreign.. of permanently restoring free and safe# navigation in the Strait of Hormuz.

ALI ROGIN: This comes as Iran# today turned away three oil## tankers in the strait, Iranian state TV reported.

MAN (through translator): The IRGC navy# announced that the Strait of Hormuz is closed,## and any transit through the strait will face# a new a firm response.

All shipping to and## from ports of allies and supporters# of the U.S.

and Israel is prohibited.

ALI ROGIN: The United Nations# today as well announced a new## task force aimed at opening the strait.

STEPHANE DUJARRIC, Spokesman, Office of# the U.N.

Secretary-General: The primary## focus of this task force is to develop and#.. designed to meet humanitarian# needs in the Strait of Hormuz.

ALI ROGIN: Iran later today accepted the# U.N.

's request for aid to be let through,## with Iran's ambassador to the organization writing## on X that -- quote -- "The Islamic Republic# of Iran has decided to facilitate and further## expedite the safe passage of humanitarian# shipments through the Strait of Hormuz."

But even with aid let through, the war and# the profound loss it inflicts continues.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Ali Rogin.

JOHN YANG: ## In the day's other headlines: A pro-Iranian# and pro-Palestinian hacking group claims it## breached an e-mail account belonging# to FBI Director Kash Patel.

The group## said they accessed Patel's personal e-mail and# published what appeared to be photographs of him,## as well as work and travel documents.# Most of them are more than a decade old.

Within hours, the FBI said it had taken all# necessary steps to mitigate potential risks## and that no government information was involved.# It's not clear when the hack might have occurred.

Lawyers representing Fulton County, Georgia,# asked a federal court today to order the FBI## to return 2020 election ballots and other records# seized in a late January raid.

FBI agents serving## a criminal warrant took more than 650 boxes of# 2020 documents from a warehouse near Atlanta.

Today, Justice Department lawyers said# they were cooperative and had provided## the county with digital copies of everything# taken.

Fulton County's lawyer, Abbe Lowell,## argued that the FBI is pursuing crimes for which# the statute of limitations has expired.

Fulton## County has been at the center of President Trump's# false claims that the 2020 election was stolen.

The bipartisan House Ethics Committee said# today that Florida Democratic Representative## Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick violated more than# two dozen House rules and federal campaign## finance laws.

As a result, there could be a# vote in the House to expel her from Congress.

Cherfilus-McCormick also faces criminal# charges for misusing millions of dollars## of taxpayer money.

If convicted, she could face# up to 53 years in prison.

The Ethics Committee## will recommend a punishment in the coming weeks.# Cherfilus-McCormick has denied any wrongdoing,## and after today's decision, she said: "I# look forward to proving my innocence."

Vice President J.D.

Vance presided# over the first meeting of the Trump## administration's new Anti-Fraud Task Force# today.

Vance and Vice Chair Andrew Ferguson,## who's head of the Federal Trade# Commission, said the task force## would focus on prosecuting and preventing# fraud with a whole government approach.

J.D.

VANCE, Vice President of the United# States: What we're going to actually do is## force the bureaucracy to take this seriously# and work together as political principals to## make sure that we stop allowing fraudsters# to steal the American people's money.

JOHN YANG: The inaugural meeting comes as# the administration is targeting Minnesota,## saying there's fraud in the state's social# services programs.

It prompted the administration## to crack down on the illegal immigration of the# Twin Cities and withhold some Medicaid funds.## Minnesota Governor Tim Walz said the state# is the target of a campaign of retribution.

Turning overseas, Austria is now the latest# nation to draw up sweeping social media## restrictions for young people.

The# nation's governing coalition agreed## in principle to ban social media for children# under the age of 14.

High-tech methods of age## verification would be employed.

Officials said# legislation will be drafted by the end of June.

ANDREAS BABLER, Vice Chancellor of Austria# (through translator): The risks associated## with excessive social media use range from# low self-esteem and addictive behavior to## cyber-bullying, which is to say, mobbing,# loneliness, and, in the most tragic cases,## even suicide.

What we wouldn't tolerate in person,# we shouldn't accept in the digital world either.

JOHN YANG: The Austrian government also plans to# teach media literacy and dealing with artificial## intelligence in schools.

In 2024, Australia# passed the first social media ban for children## under 16.

Since then, France, Spain, Denmark, and# other nations have announced plans of their own.

And, on Wall Street, stocks closed out their worst# week since the Iran war began, the fifth straight## losing week.

The Dow Jones industrial average# lost nearly 800 points, or 1.7 percent.

The## Nasdaq plummeted by more than 2 percent, and# the S&P 500 also finished firmly in the red.

Still to come on the "News Hour": how# Ukraine is developing new technology to## intercept Russian drones; an Army veteran faces# conspiracy charges over an anti-ICE protest;## and David Brooks and Ruth Marcus weigh# in on the week's political headlines.

Earlier this month, President Trump said# he didn't want Ukraine's help with drone## defense, saying Ukrainian President Volodymyr# Zelenskyy was the last person he'd turned to.

But, as the -- with the war with Iran# continuing, countries in the Gulf have## been lining up for Ukraine's guidance# on how to counter drones.

Just today,## Zelenskyy was in Saudi Arabia to strike a# deal with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Special correspondent Simon Ostrovsky# filed this report from Ukraine.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: At a secret location in Ukraine,## a local drone manufacturer demos its latest# weapons, a Sting drone capable of intercepting## the Iranian-designed Shahed suicide drone# Russia routinely launches into Ukraine.

The Sting is fast, accurate, and, crucially,## cheap.

Since its first successful strike# a year ago, interceptors like this one,## made by the defense tech firm Wild Hornets,# have taken out around 4,000 Shahed-type drones.

This Sting drone is a perfect example of the## asymmetric warfare that Ukrainians excel# at.

It costs between $1,300 and $2,200,## and it goes up against Iranian and Russian# Shahed drones that cost around $50,000 to make.

It's a technology that until now has largely been## ignored by America's defense tech industry# that's traditionally focused on making## exquisite and expensive weaponry# that can take decades to develop.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: Instead, the White# House has stepped back from Ukraine,## appropriating no new funds for# the war since Trump took office.

This hurts Ukraine's war effort against Russia,# of course, but there are increasing concerns in## Washington that it's also making the U.S.

less# able to recognize and prepare for a host of## emerging threats from American adversaries# like Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China,## who are all working together and absorbing# lessons from the Ukrainian battlefield.

Now the Iran war has exposed America's# overreliance on multimillion-dollar## munitions to shoot down cheap Iranian Shaheds,# according to Wild Hornets spokesman Alex Roslin,## who argues the math just doesn't make sense.

ALEX ROSLIN, Spokesperson, Wild Hornets# (through translator): They're using $4## million Patriot missiles.

Patriots are scarce... Patriots to knock down Shahed drones fired by# Iran.

That's $1.2 billion of Patriots against## 300 Shaheds.

And we could have taken down those# drones with our interceptor drones for around## $600,000.

That's something that# the world could learn from Ukraine.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: Not everyone is ignoring# developments in Ukraine.

A representative## of General Cherry, another Ukrainian drone company# that makes a staggering 100,000 drones per month,## which, incidentally, is the total amount# of drones made in America annually,## said interest in their technology has# surged since the start of the Iran war.

Did the interest in joint# production, joint manufacturing,## did it increase after the war in Iran started?

MARKO KUSHNIR, Communications Director, General# Cherry: Yes, they have a lot of interest in## us.

We have more than 10 different# negotiations in process right now.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: The reason it's so important# for these drones to be battle-tested is because## Ukrainian engineers from companies like# General Cherry that has designed this## new prototype are constantly improving the design.## And this one here takes the original# drone interceptor to the next level.

The reason that these workstations# are empty right now is because## the engineers who usually work here# are out in the field testing these.

MARKO KUSHNIR: Our soldiers# make it on the positions.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: General Cherry's# updated model will fly at close## to 250 miles per hour, fast enough# to take out a jet-powered Shahed.

In just a few years, the company has# managed to set up a full production line,## from 3-D-printing parts to testing# its ready drones.

A small handful## of American defense companies are actually# developing their technology out of Ukraine.

BRIAN STREEM, Founder, Vermeer: We# essentially use this to kind of capture data.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: Vermeer, founded# by New Yorker Brian Streem, is one.

BRIAN STREEM: It's just replacing the GPS antenna.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: The firm produces# navigation systems that allow drones## carrying several hundred pounds of munitions# to fly deep into enemy territory undetected,## using an A.I.-driven navigation system# that's immune to spoofing and jamming.## Vermeer's clients include the Ukrainian# armed forces and the U.S.

Air Force.

BRIAN STREEM: The Russians are very good at# jamming and spoofing GPS.

So, my company,## we build a solution for that.

We call it VPS,# visual positioning system.

Information is power.

The information I'm sharing back to# Americans is incredibly powerful,## very valuable to any nation that wants to compete# in this newfound kind of drone unmanned arms race## we appear to be involved in.

The more we kind# of pull back, we will lose out tremendously.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: America's relationship# with Ukraine has changed drastically## since Trump came into office.

In the years# following the invasion, Congress approved## massive aid and arms packages amounting to# nearly $175 billion in total since 2022,## making Ukraine the largest recipient of# U.S.

foreign assistance in modern history.

Since Trump took office, that number has# dropped to zero dollars.

While everyone## agrees that America's pivot# away from Kyiv hurts Ukraine,## some are starting to wonder# aloud if it hurts America too.

Ukrainians in terms of weapons sales.

I put this question to a panel# of security experts at a recent## U.S.-Ukraine security summit in Washington.

DEBRA CAGAN, Atlantic Council: The less# you invest, the less presence you have of## U.S.

people on the ground learning# what's going on.

And I would say,## but we have cut off our nose to spite our# face.

We're going to cost our taxpayers## hundreds of billions of dollars in failed# expertise because we're not listening.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: At the same time,# America's main adversaries, China,## Iran and North Korea, have all continued# to support their ally Russia in the## war.

As a major supplier of both the# Russian and Ukrainian defense sectors,## China is especially positioned to suck up# information from both sides of the front line.

RUSH DOSHI, Council on Foreign# Relations: The Chinese are## learning a lot from Russ.. SIMON OSTROVSKY: Rush Doshi covers China at# the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington.## In 2022, when Russian invaded Ukraine, he was on# the China team at the National Security Council.## He says Beijing's own military capabilities# are advancing thanks to its backing of Moscow.

RUSH DOSHI: They have seen that the Russians# initially did not perform well.

They want to## fix that.

Second, they're learning about the# future of warfare, what exactly matters in a## conflict in the 21st century, where you have# seen the proliferation of drones and other## technology that wasn't as salient in past# conflicts.

They're learning more about that.

Third, they have learned a lot about the# need to sustain your own industrial base## and economy.

Right now, you could argue# the U.S.

has learned some of that lesson,## but we're slower to adopt that lesson and# diffuse it through our military than China.

SIMON OSTROVSKY: Recent reporting suggests# the Trump administration is learning its## lesson the hard way.

After coming under# sustained attack from Iranian Shaheds,## the American military is now working with# Ukrainian advisers in the Middle East, after## having initially refused a Ukrainian proposal# to partner on interceptor drones last year.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm# Simon Ostrovsky in Ukraine.

JOHN YANG: So, as we have seen, the war in Ukraine## is providing a real-time testing ground# for nations defending against drones?## But unidentified drones are also a# concern here in the United States.

Liz Landers is here with more on a recent# incident at a military base in Louisiana.

LIZ LANDERS: John, the week of March 9, a# swarm of drones repeatedly hovered around## Barksdale Air Force Base in Northwest# Louisiana.

A spokesperson for the base## tells "PBS News Hour" that it was# unauthorized and criminal activity## that's now being investigated by both# federal and local law enforcement.

ABC News reported that the drone# flights lasted four hours at a time,## deliberately maneuvered within# the airspace over the base,## and appeared to be jam-resistant.

Barksdale# is a key facility for the U.S.

in the ongoing## fight with Iran, housing B-52 bombers# and nuclear weapons storage facilities.

For more on this, return to retired Air# Force Lieutenant General Dave Deptula.## He is now the dean of the Mitchell# Institute for Aerospace Studies.

General, thank you for joining us this evening.

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

), U.S.

Air# Force: You bet, Liz.

Good to be here.

LIZ LANDERS: We just saw in Simon's story how# advanced Ukraine's counterdrone technology.. and yet the U.S.

is having trouble stopping# all these drones that Iran is launching at## its neighbors.

How is it that Iran is so# advanced here and that the U.S.

is not?

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

): Well, what I# would tell you is that, with respect to Ukraine,## who are the real experts, with respect# to defense, is they're much better at## defending against drone attacks, because,# for them, this is an existential fight.

Russia is trying to eliminate# Ukraine as a sovereign country,## erase its people, identity and culture.

So when# a nation is facing that kind of threat every day,## it adapts with extraordinary speed# and seriousness.

And that's why I## think that it behooves the United States and our# military to partner with Ukraine and learn from## all their experience in defending against# the drone assaults from the Russians.

Now, with respect to Iran, I think we need# to be careful in defending -- or defining## what the issue is, because we essentially have# reduced Iran's ability to employ their cruise## missiles and drones very, very significantly.# It doesn't mean that it's been eliminated,## but that's part of the objective in# launching the assaults that you have seen## to date so very successfully# applied against the Iranians.

LIZ LANDERS: When you look at# that drone swarm that happened## over Barksdale Air Force Base earlier this month,## what stands out to you and how should the base# commanders handle those kinds of situations?

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

):# Well, it's a great question.

First, I think it's important to# keep this event in perspective.## There was no mission impact from these# incidents.

Operations continued.

And## there's no indication the activity# disrupted the base's core functions.

Now, all that said, the absence of mission# impact should not be mistaken for the## absence of a problem, because unauthorized drone# activity around sensitive military installations## is still a serious security concern,# for all the reasons one might imagine.

Now, the good news is, the U.S.

military does# have the capacity to deal with this.

We have the## technology, the operational experience, and the# institutional knowledge to address these threats.## So, the issue is less about whether we# can respond and more about whether the## responsible organizations are putting in enough# priority and resources against the problem.

And, in particular, a service with the# primary responsibility for base defense,## the United States Army, needs to# increase its efforts on this topic.## So it's an area that requires greater# attention, greater involvement, investment,## and a much greater sense of urgency# than has been lent to the issue today.

LIZ LANDERS: Who do you think is behind this# incident at Barksdale?

Because we have seen## that China has demonstrated very sophisticated# drone use just for entertainment purposes.

For example, they had a Guinness# Book of World Records event last## year where there were more than 7,500# drones that lit up the night sky in## this just demonstration just for# entertainment there in that city.

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

): Yes, well,# that is -- and I have witnessed several of## those entertainment displays, but those should# not be confused with battlefield performance.

Flying thousands of unmanned# aircraft in a scripted show## under controlled conditions is really# different from operating in combat,## under jamming, interference, attrition and# attack.

So the military question is not## whether they can do choreography.

It's whether# they can function in a contested environment.

LIZ LANDERS: Sir, what kind of information can# be obtained and gleaned if you have drone swarms## that are hovering over these critical military# installations for up to four hours at a time?

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

): Well, it's a --# once again, it's an indication of serious concern,## because it's one thing to observe.

It's another# thing to turn that observation into the kind of## lethal attacks that we saw Ukraine execute against# the Russians in some of their highly publicized## activities where they lost drones out of trucks# and destroyed several Russian long-range bombers.

So that, quite frankly, is the area of concern.# And that's why I say we really need to increase## our attention on taking action.

I would suggest# that command-and-control is an extraordinarily## piece or -- extraordinarily important piece# of this equation, and that authority to engage## drones indicating hostile intent needs to be# distributed down to the lowest possible levels.

And those -- these are all issues that the# military is addressing and is facing.

But## we do need to turn up the emphasis# and investment in this area.

LIZ LANDERS: General Dave# Deptula, thank you for joining us.

LT.

GEN.

DAVID DEPTULA (RET.

): My pleasure.

JOHN YANG: ## When a U.S.

Army veteran was arrested# on conspiracy charges for his role in an## anti-ICE protest in Spokane, Washington,# last summer, it was the first time an## American had been charged with conspiracy# in connection with the ongoing ICE protests.

Some legal experts saw it as an escalation# of the administration's efforts to suppress,## even criminalize First Amendment rights.

Special correspondent Aaron Glantz has the story,## which was produced with the# support of the Pulitzer Center.

AARON GLANTZ: The sound of banging# on Army veteran Bajun Mavalwalla's## front door startled him awake at 6:00# a.m.

the morning of July 15, 2025.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA, U.S.

Army Veteran: Something's# not right.

And I went and I looked out the## upstairs window.

The street is all closed# off and there's a bunch of guys with rifles.

AARON GLANTZ: It was the FBI,and# they had come to arrest him.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: My dad very,# very quickly after that was like,## Bajun, it's the FBI.

They have got a warrant.

AARON GLANTZ: Bajun was arrested# for conspiracy for his role in## an anti-ICE protest more than a month earlier.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: I'm an Afghanistan# veteran.

I'm an American citizen.

AARON GLANTZ: Bajun kept his cool in# handcuffs while the FBI searched his pockets.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA, Father of Bajun# Mavalwalla: Have you been read your rights?

AARON GLANTZ: His father recorded this video.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: My son is steady as a rock,## saying he's an Afghanistan# veteran, that this is unjust.

AARON GLANTZ: If convicted, Bajun# would face up to six years in prison.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: I don't think# that you really realize how far away## we have come from democracy until# you open the door and see federal## agents to arrest your son# for a nonviolent protest.

AARON GLANTZ: Bajun comes from a military family.# His parents both served in the army.

His father,## Bajun Ray Mavalwalla, a retired intelligence# officer, earned three Bronze Stars in Iraq and## Afghanistan.

He and Bajun served# in Afghanistan at the same time.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: I think that might be# my favorite photograph in the entire world.

AARON GLANTZ: The younger Mavalwalla provided# signals intelligence in Kandahar province,## one of the most dangerous parts of# Afghanistan.

His unit suffered casualties,## including one time a fellow# soldier stepped on an IED.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: There was three amputations,## three traumatic brain injuries.# I was maybe 10, 15 yards back.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: My son's incredibly brave.## He believes that you should do# the things you're supposed to do.

AARON GLANTZ: After coming home from the war,# Bajun moved to the Pacific Northwest.

He felt## he'd done his duty.

Like many veterans,# he said he wanted to find some peace.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: I bought the land and# it's beautiful.

There's tons of trees.

Like,## I have seen wolves on it.

There's been# moose.

There's been bears.

Like, it's quiet.

AARON GLANTZ: But, a few years later in# 2021, when Kabul fell to the Taliban,## Bajun felt compelled to serve# again, this time out of uniform,## volunteering to help dozens of America's# Afghan allies come to the United States.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: Every single person here, except# for the people who are indigenous to the Americas,## is an immigrant or comes from immigrants.

It's# absolutely ludicrous to think that we can get away## with not bringing people in, especially people who# we told, hey, if you help us, we will help you.

AARON GLANTZ: Five weeks before his arrest,# Bajun saw a Facebook post from the former## president of the Spokane City Council.

Two# men with pending asylum applications had## been detained at a routine ICE check-in and# were going to be transported for deportation.

"I am going to sit in front of the# bus," he wrote.

"Feel free to join me."

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: Happened to be scrolling# through and saw it pop up and I was like,## huh, well, I have time.

I will# swing by and see what's going on.

I'm pretty upset about how this# country is treating immigrants.## The people they rolled up were legal# asylum seekers.

They have been doing## everything right.

There was no# reason for them to be detained.

AARON GLANTZ: The protest was, for the# most part, peaceful.

But, at times,## it turned contentious.

Bajun can be seen in this# video briefly tangling with masked federal agents.## One ICE agent pushes Bajun in the# back, knocking Bajun into another,## who grabs him.

Bajun and the agents# shove each other and then disengage.

Then demonstrators back up and link arms to# try to block the gate to stop ICE from taking## the asylum seekers away.

Dozens of people# were arrested, but Bajun wasn't among them.

Richard Barker, the acting U.S.# attorney for Eastern Washington state,## had monitored the protest from his office# on the other side of the Spokane River.

RICHARD BARKER, Former Acting U.S.

Attorney,# Eastern District of Washington: I went to bed## that evening feeling like this situation could# .. AARON GLANTZ: Barker had worked for# the DOJ for 11 years and focused on## prosecuting drug smugglers and murderers.# But the day after the Spokane protest,## the Justice Department sent him and the# 92 other U.S.

attorneys nationwide a memo## that demanded they prioritize# prosecutions of ICE protesters.

So Barker authorized an investigation.

His# staff started preparing a conspiracy indictment## against Bajun Mavalwalla and eight others,# something Barker knew he couldn't support.

RICHARD BARKER: Nobody was really hurt.

None# of the protesters were hurt.

Fortunately,## none of the law enforcement# officers were hurt either.

AARON GLANTZ: He was aware that# other U.S.

attorneys had been## ousted for refusing to comply with Trump# Justice Department orders.

And he worried## about his ability to act ethically if# he stayed on the job.

So he resigned.

RICHARD BARKER: I didn't feel in this case that# a conspiracy charge that would carry a six-year## term of incarceration was true to who I was# or who I wanted to be as a federal prosecutor.

AARON GLANTZ: Two days after Barker quit,# his successor signed the indictment,## charging Bajun and the others with conspiracy# to impede or injure a federal officer,## the first time conspiracy charges had# been brought against ICE protesters.

In a statement to the "News Hour," the DOJ# said it "respects the First Amendment and## the right of Americans to peacefully# protest, but will never tolerate the## obstruction of lawful immigration operations# or putting federal agents in harm's way."

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: Should we go in?

AARON GLANTZ: The day he was arrested,# Bajun was getting read.. a new house.

He and his girlfriend,# Kate, bought it with a VA mortgage.

KATELYN GASTON, U.S.

Army Veteran: This is# the service uniform.

I was in nine years.

AARON GLANTZ: Kate's also an Afghanistan# war veteran.

She deployed as a medic.

KATELYN GASTON: We're not weak people.

We# are willing to fight for what is right,## which is -- I mean, it's a First Amendment issue.

AARON GLANTZ: Bajun agrees# and is standing his ground.

They say that you were part of a felony# conspiracy to impede or assault a federal officer.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: Conspiracy requires people# communicating and planning it out and saying,## yes, we're going to do this and this is why we're# going to do it and this is how we're going to do## it.

None of that happened, at least as far as --# not as far as I know.

I wasn't part of any of it.

AARON GLANTZ: Since Bajun's arrest in# July, the use of federal conspiracy## charges has spread.

Prosecutors have filed# them against demonstrators in Chicago and## also investigated Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and# Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey for the same crime.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: What these people are# doing to my son and that they're doing all## across the country is unconscionable,# and people need to know about it.

How you all doing today?

AARON GLANTZ: Inspired by Bajun's arrest a.. of government authority, his father announced# in January that he was running for Congress,## challenging Spokane's Republican incumbent.

It was a day after federal agents# fatally shot Renee Good in Minneapolis,## and he stopped by a demonstration in Spokane.

BAJUN RAY MAVALWALLA: This is me and my# son in Afghanistan.

He was arrested by## the FBI.

It's unconscionable and it's un-American.

AARON GLANTZ: The shock of Renee# Good's killing also inspired former## acting U.S.

attorney Richard Barker# to speak out about what he sees as## the government's hypocrisy.

This is his# first on-camera interview since resigning.

RICHARD BARKER: In the one instance, really,# nobody was hurt and the protesters were charged.## In another instance, somebody's life was taken,# and DOJ wants to give that person immunity.

BAJUN MAVALWALLA: These are things that# are supposed to be fundamentally American.## These are the things that, when I joined the# military, I thought I was joining to protect.## You have a right as an American to voice your# opinion.

You can't do it violently.

You can't## do it in a way that harms other people.

But you# have a right to stand up for what you believe in.

Oh, you got it.

AARON GLANTZ: Bajun's jury# .. For "PBS News Hour," I'm Aaron# Glantz in Spokane, Washington.

JOHN YANG: ## The collapse of a deal to end the# partial government shutdown and## more fallout from the war in Iran give# us a lot to talk about this Friday.

And, for that, we turn to Brooks and# Marcus.

That's "The Atlantic"'s David## Brooks and Ruth Marcus of "The New Yorker.

"# Jonathan Capehart is away this evening.

So, we wake up to the news that, overnight,# the Senate Republicans and the Democrats## have cut a deal, unanimous -- passed by# unanimous consent.

Then, a few hours later,## the speaker of the House calls it# a joke, says he can't vote for it.

David, what do you make of all this?

DAVID BROOKS: Oh, we get to watch the# decline of American democracy in real time.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I thought the Democrats# were wrong to start this thing.

I think,## if you don't like what the opposing# party does, you go to the voters and## you try to beat the other party in the next# election.

You don't shut down the government.

But it turns out the Republicans are -- don't# -- haven't learned democracy 101 either,## because when you only control 50# percent of the House, sometimes,## you have to compromise to make the ship run.

And# the House Republicans apparently don't understand## that.

And so they're unwilling to go with the# Senate compromise, which was a compromise.

And it had some things Republicans didn't like.# But guess what?

That's politics.

And so, to me,## what's happening in the country is that# people are not saying who's right and who's## wrong.

Are we blaming the Democrats# or are they blaming the Republicans?## They're saying the whole# ruling class is screwed up.

The entire elite establishment in this country# cannot run things.

And so that impulse,## which has been building for decades, is what# got Donald Trump elected.

And if we continue to## see Americans looking at their ruling class# and saying these people are total losers,## total incompetence, then we're going to elect the# craziest person we can, and Donald Trump is going## to look sane compared to whoever comes next,# whether it's the Democrat or the Republican.

JOHN YANG: Ruth, what can be done# about that to try to change that?

RUTH MARCUS, "The New Yorker": Oh, it's very# easy.

We will just fix it in a nanosecond.

(LAUGHTER) RUTH MARCUS: Look, you.. have lived through government shutdown after# government shutdown after government shutdown.

And I want to take a little bit of issue with you,## David, because Democrats don't# have a lot of levers of power,## right?

They don't have the control of the House.# They don't have control of the Senate.

They don't## have control of the White House.

They have# a grievance with the way DHS is being run.

They have a particular grievance with the# way ICE is being run.

And they have very## few levers of power to try to achieve# reform on that, which, by the way,## they weren't getting out of this deal.# So that's an important point to be made.

But when you have one party in charge# of these three axes of government,## and it can't even agree with itself on# funding one of these important agencies## and allowing TSA agents to be paid,# you are going to get blamed for that.

And I think, as much as people are just# generally frustrated with government writ large,## they are going to be particularly frustrated# at the end of this week and at the end of next## week and probably the week after that with# the operations of the Republican Congress.

People are furious at these delays at airports.# And I think they are unnerved by something else## that happened this week that's not really related# to the shutdown, but goes to trust in government,## which is the accident that -- the tragic# accident that happened at LaGuardia.

I think this all folds together and is# just a state of real public unhappiness.

JOHN YANG: Ruth, I want to stay with you.

You# talk about the reaction of the public.

And this## started out, as David pointed out, talking# about ICE, the Democrats talking about ICE.

Then it became the TSA agents.

And then# today the speaker made it firmly an issue## about border control.

Talk about the# messaging war that's going on here.

RUTH MARCUS: Well, the messaging war# is, I think, primarily for people,## what have you done for me lately or, more# accurately, what have you done to me lately?

And if you are making me -- this was completely# predictable, by the way.

If you're not going to## pay TSA agents, they're going to end up# not showing up on the job.

They're going## to leave.

The fallout from this is going to# take weeks, months to fix.

God forbid some## people who aren't adequately trained allow# something to sneak through in the interim.

So I think the messaging war of you are# inconveniencing me or you are making me## feel unsafe is going to win out over the# border messaging war.

Because, by the way,## there's so much money in the ICE bucket, pardon# that pun -- I didn't mean to make it -- that ICE## is fully funded.

So failing to fund DHS here# is actually not affecting border enforcement.

But it is affecting, as Lisa said in her very# good piece, so many thousands of other people.

JOHN YANG: David, the president tried to take# unilateral action to try to do something about## this.

He sent ICE agents into airports# to help TSA.

He signed an executive order## to have them -- have the TSA# paycheck start flowing again.

What do you make of that?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's unconstitutional.## But we have crashed through that so# many times.

I'm glad.. I flew a bit this week, and people were going# up to this the ICE -- the TSA agents wherever## I was and thanking them for showing up# to work.

And God bless those people.

If I could nurse our disagreement over... RUTH MARCUS: Oh, good.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: The Democrats controlled# all three branch or all three, House,## Senate and White House, through much of# the 20th century, through large sections## of the 20th century, and it didn't occur# to the Republicans, as I don't think it## would have occurred to the Democrats of# that era, to shut down the government,## because they assumed that making the U.S.# government function well and that democracy## was more important than the partisan fight of# the next two weeks and winning the news cycle.

And they assumed that, if# they degrade the government,## then the voters would punish them.

And# Newt Gingrich broke through that norm## a long time ago.

And now we're seeing the# norms degrade.

And so Congress has become## dysfunctional.

And TSA is becoming degraded# because of all this.

The federal agencies## are becoming degraded because of the repeated# government shutdowns and the Trump assault.

And so we're just seeing a destruction of# the basic functions of government.

And,## to me, that's the most important# -- more important issue than who## happens to get blamed and who's doing# what messaging on what cable TV show.

RUTH MARCUS: Well, that's# where actually we can agree,## because one of the really unfortunate fallouts# here is that the fundamentally important issue,## which is not who wins the messaging# war.

And we could keep going on that,## and we will keep arguing when we're# off the air, because that's what we do.

DAVID BROOKS: It's going to be a fun weekend.

(LAUGHTER) RUTH MARCUS: And another thing is that there does# need to be -- th.. fully well understands that ICE needs reform,# that what happened in Minnesota is not OK,that## what we're seeing across the country is not OK,# and that we need to put some controls there.

That is something that the way I think that# this budget fight is going to play itself## out is not going to end up happening, because# Republicans will manage to get the funding done## through a reconciliation measure.

I'm sorry# to use that word.

That will be done with a## majority vote.

And so we won't -- Democrats# will have lost their leverage for reform.

JOHN YANG: Well, another thing that# the American -- or a section of the## American public is questioning and# wondering about is the war in Iran The president has said at the# beginning that we had won militarily,## that we had pounded the Iranians.# And then he says that they're## negotiating.

And now he's sending# more troops.

What's going on here?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I guess my big picture is that# there's -- we are achieving militarily.

There's a## curve of the more and more we achieve militarily,# the more we degrade the Iranian regime, the more## we make it hard for them to build munitions that# going on to the future.

And that's all positive.

But there's another curve.# That's the economic pain curve.## And the economy is being hit.

The stock market is# being hit, the world economy.

Christine Lagarde,## the European -- former head of the European# Bank, is saying it's going to be a catastrophe.

And so, at some point, these two curves cross.# And that's when it's time to end the war, for## sure.

The problem is the downward sloping of the# economic curve is exponential.

We make incremental## progress in degrading Iran's ability, but the# collapse of the economy could go out of control.

And so, to me, I think Marco Rubio said today# to do two to four more weeks.

I'm rooting for## as short a time as possible.

They can say,# we degraded Iran seriously, they're not a## regional power, let's declare victory and get# out before we cause pain all around the world.

JOHN YANG: Yes, Ruth?

RUTH MARCUS: Ooh, I think you'.. in terms of your assessment# of the upward military curve.

Yes, the regime has been degraded militarily.# Yes, important people have been taken out.## Does that make us safer or does that make us# less safe?

Because let's be clear.

We have not## achieved what the president told us on night one# we wanted to achieve, which was regime change.

The regime is not changing.

If anything,# the regime may be coming more hard-line,## more inclined to insist on# developing nuclear power,## nuclear capabilities.

It may be more# incentivized to go after nuclear weapons,## which is the biggest potential threat to# the U.S.

And I take it very, very seriously.

It may be more incentivized by this latest# round of attacks then it was previously,## even after June, even after other# assaults.

And, in the meantime,## we are now negotiating to fix something# that wasn't broken when we started,## which is access to the Strait of Hormuz.

So# I do not see the military arc in the same## positive light, though I -- there have# been some achievements -- that you do.

JOHN YANG: And, David, there's some# elements of the president's supporters## who are questioning this, who say# they feel a little bit betrayed.

Joe Rogan earlier this month: "He# ran on no more wars."

And of this,## what's happening now: "We can't even# really clearly define why he did it."

Tucker Carlson: "This war is something he promised# he wouldn't do, not once, but countless times."

Megyn Kelly says: "No one should# have to die for a foreign country."

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I'm puzzled by# this.

When you look at the polls,## I would not say too many MAGA people are# flaking off.

They're mostly supporting.

But the sort of MAGA people that I# know in the media and in podcast world,## the people I started "The Weekly Standard"# with all these years ago, Tucker Carlson,## a guy named Christopher Caldwell,# they're really upset because they're## more philosophically inclined.

This really is a# betrayal of what they thought they were getting.

But I wouldn't say it's yet a mass# movement among the Republican ranks.

JOHN YANG: Ruth?

RUTH MARCUS: I think we need# to wait and see, because t.. unhappiness with TSA is magnified# with the unhappiness at the gas pump,## the unhappiness at the grocery store.

And that# is something that the -- unhappiness with what's## going on in your 401(k), and that's something the# president is going to have to really deal with.

JOHN YANG: Ruth Marcus, David# Brooks, thank you both very much.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.

JOHN YANG: ## And be sure to tune into# "Washington Week" tonight,## Jeffrey Goldberg and his panel assess# whether President Trump's war of## choice is becoming a war of necessity.# That's tonight on "Washington Week."

And tomorrow on "Horizons,"# William Brangham looks at the## risks and potential awards of A.I.

companionship.

And a special edition of "Compass Points" this# weekend.

Nick Schifrin takes the program to Tel## Aviv for an in-depth look at the unprecedented# U.S.-Israeli military and intelligence alliance.

For all those shows, check# your local PBS stations.

And that is the "News Hour" for# this Friday night.

I'm John Yang.

For all of us here at the "News Hour,"# thanks for watching.

See you later.