PBS News Hour

JUDY WOODRUFF

When he retires in January, Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy will leave the presidential line of succession and the seat that he has called home for nearly half-a-century. But, before he steps down, he took a moment yesterday to sit down with me, reflecting on a career few in our nation's history can match. Senator Leahy, thank you so much for joining us. After all these years in the United States Senate, you are taking your leave. And you have written this book, "The Road Taken," a play on Robert Frost. And I have to say I was struck in the introduction, when you speak about how, after all this time, you still haven't great awe of what the government does for the American people. And you hold that side by side with a great disappointment, a frustration. How does that work?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT)

Well, I have kept noted during all the 48 years I have been in the Senate. And going back and thinking how thrilled I was when I got there, how excited I felt the Senate could be, should be. I realized it wasn't perfection. But then I look back and I have seen so much that was good in the Senate has been lost. And then, after January 6, it all came -- the whole country is being riven and torn apart. And I said, I will write this and show how it could be, how it should be, and at least some hope that it may be again.

JUDY WOODRUFF

You came into office on the heels of this great constitutional crisis in our country, Watergate. President Nixon resigned. As you leave office, a lot of people think we're just on the edge of another constitutional crisis.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

I worry that we are. And I look at what happened back at the time of the Nixon era. Members of both parties came together and thought, what should we do under the Constitution? I remember having quiet conversations with some of the most conservative Republicans, like Barry Goldwater, Hugh Scott and others, who told me they took no pleasure in going down and telling Richard Nixon he had to leave, but they felt that was their duty to the American people, not to their party, not to their own political future, but to the American people. Now you see senators who will tell you, we don't like what Donald Trump did, but we worry about our own political future if we say anything. If you're going to be one of 100 U.S. senators, stand up and say what you think.

JUDY WOODRUFF

And so what are you saying about Republican senators who say that to you? Are they serving the country?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

They're not in that regard. And I point out the number who are here now who do speak out. But I also tell stories about Democrats and Republicans who spoke out on different things when it might not have been popular in their party, but it was the right thing for the country.

JUDY WOODRUFF

You worked closely with Republicans over the years.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

I do.

JUDY WOODRUFF

It was part of what you -- how you saw your job. But that stopped at some point, for the most part.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

Yes. And I don't mean to say, oh, it was wonderful in the past. There are UPS and downs here. But when I came in, I was the only Democrat ever elected in Vermont's history and the youngest person ever. Mr. Republican, Senator Stafford, Bob Stafford, was the senior senator. He took me under his wing. Both he and his wife became dearest of friends. And he urged me to meet and talk with both Democrats and Republicans. And he

also taught me the same thing that Leader Mansfield did

You always keep your word. That was sacrosanct. Republicans and Democrats, you always kept your word. Now people will change their minds overnight, and not tell anybody. And that, the American people started losing confidence.

JUDY WOODRUFF

You served for so many years on the Judiciary Committee. I believe it's right that you have voted on every member of the sitting Supreme Court. I mean, what are you thinking at this point about that process and where we are with the courts?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

Well, I respected the process because it was always above politics. In the past few years, it has become very, very political,

Donald Trump saying

I must have judges who will vote my way. I have argued cases at appellate courts. I have argued cases in trial courts. I always assumed the judge is going to look at what the law is, not what my political party might be. The reason we have seen such a diminishing of respect for the -- for example, the U.S. Supreme Court, because they are seen as being political. Courts are not supposed to be political.

JUDY WOODRUFF

I want to ask you also, Senator, about the work you have done in foreign affairs. One of the principal issues I think about is land mines. You have been a leader on these issues over time. And what remains to be done?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

I think a lot has been done. I mean, I wrote the first law in the world, the Leahy law, to ban the export of land mines from the U.S. A number of other countries followed that. But we're seeing in Ukraine the just indiscriminate use of land mines by the Putin forces. They're always aimed not at combatants. They're aimed, 95 percent, 98 percent at individual noncombatant civilians, children. They are indiscriminate weapons of terror. They should be banned everywhere. I have taken trips to places where the victims are. I have always invited both Republican and Democratic senators. When they have seen the damage, it's had an effect. And many of these same senators in both parties have come back and worked with me to ban the export or ban the use of land mines.

JUDY WOODRUFF

When you think of the all the work that you have done, the presidents you have worked with, the legislation, the colleagues, is there one thing you're most proud of, or is it just too many things just to think about?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

Well, that I have kept the -- my Vermont values. I quoted Edmund Burke when I first ran that you owe your duty to your constituents to help them in every way, but you keep your conscience to yourself, and you owe that to nobody. And I have cast votes that I was told would be very unpopular politically at the time, but, in my conscience, I knew it was right.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Senator, you're 82 years old. You're stepping away from the Senate. A number of your colleagues are older than you are. They're staying. There's been debate in this country about Congress, the presidency, the Supreme Court. Should there be age limits on these positions?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

Well, there's an age limit in one sense. You have got elections. I mean, I have -- I have served with 20 percent of the senators in this nation's history. I don't believe in age limits. I believe in a very close watch by constituents.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Is there a piece of advice or pieces of advice you would share with others who are starting to serve in Congress right now, whether it's the Senate or the House?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY

Elections come and go. Your conscience is there only once. Don't violate your conscience. If you do, whether you get reelected or not, you're not going to -- you're not going to be happy.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Senator Patrick Leahy, stepping away from the United States Senate and writing a book, "The

Road Taken

A Memoir," thank you very much.

Thank you. JUDY WOODRUFF

We appreciate it.