PBS News Hour

AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump# has spent his first weeks in## office reshaping much of the American# immigration system through executive## actions and working to see through a# campaign promise of mass deportations.

For more on all of this, I'm joined now by Chad# Wolf.

He's former acting secretary of homeland## security in the first Trump administration# and the current executive director of the## America First Policy Institute.# That's a conservative think tank.

Secretary Wolf, welcome back.# Thanks for being with us.

CHAD WOLF, Former Acting U.S. Secretary# of Homeland Security: Well, thanks for## having me.

Good to b.. AMNA NAWAZ: So, White House# Press Secretary Karoline## Leavitt said last week that about more than# 8,000 people had been arrested in immigra.. enforcement actions since President# Trump was inaugurated on January 20.

We have seen reports recently that# the president has been unhappy with## the pace of arrests and deportations.# When you talk to people on the inside,## what do they tell you about the challenges# of meeting some of these expectations?

CHAD WOLF: Yes, well, the number I# have got is a little over 11,000,## but I think it's a good first step.

I think we got to remember that we're only three,# going on the fourth week of the administration.## So scaling up the number of folks removed# from the country is going to take a little## time.

I think they want immediate results,# given where the president has been on this,## but there -- as you indicate,# there are challenges to doing that.

Both you need manpower to# target and arrest individuals,## and then you need detention space to put# them in as they're being flown out of the## country.

So all that takes logistics.

It# takes scaling up to be able to do that.

But, look, it's three -- like I said, three weeks,## four weeks into the -- into this# effort, and they're at a very high rate.

AMNA NAWAZ: And we have seen, of course, of the# pace slowing a little bit.

I think the highest## single-day arrest total we saw was about 1,100,# over 1,100 early in Mr. Trump's administration.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but there# was reporting that, of that total,## about half of all of those so, about 600 people# or so, were arrested as criminal arrests.## The rest were what you call nonviolent# offenders on civil immigration charges.

Is that your understanding of the trend,## about half of everyone arrested so# far has been on a criminal arrest?

CHAD WOLF: I haven't seen the# exact breakdown of criminal versus## non-criminal arrest within that overall# number, but that doesn't surprise me.

Look, they're going to target the worst of the# worst, those criminal aliens.

But what they have## also said is, as they target these individuals and# they have to go into these neighborhoods and these## cities, that they're not going to ignore other# individuals that they come into contact with,## meaning other individuals that are here# in the country illegally and don't have## a legal right to be here, what they# often refer to as collateral arrests.

And so what we saw during the Biden# administration is, they would not detain## those individuals.

They wouldn't deport# them.

The Trump administration has said,## well, that's ignoring the law.

We're not# going to do that.

We're going to let ICE do## their job.

And so I think you're starting to# see more and more of those types of arrests,## as they continue to roll out and look for those# violent and dangerous individuals as well.

AMNA NAWAZ: And so, if that's# the case, can you clarify for us?

Because, as you know, there are a lot of# ways people can have protected status here,## temporary protected status, TPS, for hundreds# of thousands of people.

DACA is another form## of that protection, the Deferred Action for# Childhood Arrivals.

You probably saw there## was a report out of Florida about a middle# school teacher who was a DACA recipient,## a 24-year-old teacher there, who was reportedly# detained, arrested and deported back to Honduras## after appearing for what the union said# was a regular immigration appointment.

And that's caused a lot of concern# for people.

Can you just clarify,## if someone has DACA, are they# protected from deportation?

CHAD WOLF: Yes, look, there's a number of relief# that the U.S. government provides to folks.

So whether that's temporary protective status --# obviously, you mentioned DACA.

They could be in## the middle of their asylum proceedings, right?# All of those measures and relief have an ongoing## process that you have to adhere to, unless# those individuals for any number of reasons## fall out of status, and so they could commit a# crime.

They could do any -- a number of other## things that make them fall out of status# and then therefore eligible for removal.

But if you do have some type of relief# or you're in a process of doing that,## then it's -- you're obviously# not eligible to be removed.

AMNA NAWAZ: Can I ask if you can share anything# to help clarify some of the deportation flights## we have seen to Guantanamo Bay?# My understanding is there's been## a few military flights already.

It's been# reported between 60 and 70 people so far.

We have heard President Trump say# that this is where what he calls## sort of the worst of the worst will# be sent.

What is the bar for deporting## someone to Guantanamo?

Do they have to be# convicted of a violent crime, for example?

CHAD WOLF: Well, again, they're# using Guantanamo Bay as, again,## a staging area.

Any time that you target# an individual, arrest an individual,## you have to put them in a bed in order to# hold them in order to line up a deportation## flight back to their home country# or back to another third country.

So they're using Guantanamo Bay# as a staging ground.

And, again,## the Coast Guard has done this in the past# with Haitian migrants, with Cuban migrants## that they pick up at sea.

So that facility# has some muscle memory on how to do that.

And, obviously, for the number of arrests# that this administration wants to see as## they continue to scale up, they're# going to need more and more beds,## whether that is through the military at places# like Guantanamo Bay or that's through state and## local sheriffs or that's through private# contractors.

They're going to need more## capacity to hold individuals as they line up# flights to remove them out of the country.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, we should clarify, I# guess, the U.S. hasn't really held people## en masse there from Cuba and Haiti since the# 1990s.

That generally stopped in 1996.

And,## since then, there's been fewer than 100# or so migrants held at the facility there.

But, again, the bar for deporting someone# from United States soil to Guantanamo Bay,## is it clear to you where that is?

CHAD WOLF: Well, I have continued# to hear the worst of the worst.

But it really doesn't matter what they# have done.

If you're eligible for removal,## then they can move you to places like Guantanamo# Bay.

They can move you to other places that they## have here in the United States in Texas# and Arizona and other places.

Again,## it's just a holding facility so that then# you can be put on an aircraft and flown back## to either your home country or another# country that's going to repatriate you.

AMNA NAWAZ: While I have you, I want to get a big# picture question in here, because the agency that## you used to lead, the Department of Homeland# Security, which has the third largest federal## department by work force, was targeted in that# outline in Project 2025 that was looking for ways## to reshape the incoming Trump administration as# a department that could be eliminated wholesale.

And when you look at now the actions# taken by Elon Musk and his team,## looking for efficiencies, places to cut# the work force, what's your view on that?## Should the Department of Homeland Security# be eliminated or dramatically scaled back?

CHAD WOLF: I would not advocate# for wholesale abolishment of DHS,## but is there places where you# can trim the fat?

Absolutely.

So whether DOGE wants to come in or other# groups of individuals should come in,## take a hard look at the department.

Where are# they meeting their statutory mandate?

Where## have they grown or had that mission creep# over a period of time?

And where can they## scale back?

Save the American taxpayer some# money, but continue to keep America safe,## protect the homeland and do what was# originally envisioned by Congress.

AMNA NAWAZ: That's former Acting# Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf,## now the executive director of the# America First Policy Institute.

Secretary Wolf, thank you.

Good to speak with you.

CHAD WOLF: Thank you.