Just a Mortal Man: The Jerry Lawson Story

>>Jerry Lawson: You know, I'm just a mortal man.

And that's the way I like for people to see me.

>>Announcer: Ladies and Gentlemen, the kings of accapella, The Persuasions.

>>Johnny Carson: They met these fellas about 8 years ago on a basketball court.

Your love keeps burning and burning and burning, in my soul >>Claude McKnight: The kinds of music that they were doing at the time seemed to be groundbreaking.

>>Jerry Lawson: I remember people were saying, Boy, you did a hellified show last night man.

And I would say, "I don't remember none of it."

>>Shawn Stockman: You are a living testimony that second chances do exist.

I was just thinking to myself this morning What were you thinking?

You know what I thought?

Just how helpless I really am.

And I say to myself, what a wonderful world I see skies of blue and clouds of white Bright, blessed day >>Jerry Lawson: My real name is Jerome Eugene Lawson.

And I say to myself, I was born in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, in Broward County Hospital, so they say.

Colors of the rainbow, so pretty in the sky >>Jerry Lawson: You know, I try to be happy every day.

My philosophy in life is that you're going to have enough rough days as it is.

... shaking hands... There ain't no need of making these beautiful days that God gave us even tougher by worrying about the small stuff.

I love you >>Let's get this thing started.

>>Freddie Grier: Yeah, singing, it was such a beautiful thing back, we talking 50's, 60's, 70's, even in the mid-80's.

But nowadays, you know, they don't sing like they used to.

We used to do the Acapella on the corners.

You used to walk down the street, they have group battling.

You know and uh, I mean, the air was full of music.

You hear a sound, you would stop and listen, because you know that was natural.

The harmony, the tones, the notes they used to have, beautiful.

Take this park for instance, is where the Persuasions used to sing.

Oh, man.

All aboard.

Get on Board All aboard.

Get on Board There's a train coming somewhere down the track The people that ain't ready better step in back This train has been running since time began It's running on the love of your fellow man All aboard.

You better get on Board All aboard.

You better get on Board People get ready.

There's a train a-coming You don't need no baggage.

You just get on board All you need is faith to hear the diesels humming Don't need no ticket.

You just thank the Lord >>Jerry Lawson: Well, you know, as far as my singing is concerned, I think, in my Church, my pastor used to say, "Where's my little boy?

Get up and sing a song."

I would get up and I had my little short pants on and I'd start singing.

One thing about it is that, in Church, you know, everybody liked you.

They like it.

If the pastor liked it, then everybody liked it.

>>Narrator: This is the story of one man's journey.

For Jerry Lawson, it began in the small central Florida town of Apopka.

The singing child with an old soul who would grow up to perform on some of the biggest stages in the world.

>>David Ackerman: Jerry was an extraordinary talent.

He had an encyclopedic knowledge of song lyrics.

I was sitting in the park one day, happy as a lark.

Lord I heard an old lady say, on a bright sunny day America... >>David Ackerman: What I learned from Jerry is that the music doesn't come from you.

It comes through you.

Only son.

Only son.

My only son >>Jerry Lawson: Brooklyn is a special place, especially the promenade.

You know, my Moms took me into New York, I think, as a teenager, maybe I was 12 or 13.

And, I got to go to Coney Island.

And in those little booths, you record a song.

And I recorded in the booth: "Lordy, lordy, lordy Ms. Claudy.

You sure been good to me."

And my uncle Leroy got, bless his soul, used to say, "Sing my song, boy."

Now, going back to the preacher, used to tell me to get up and sing his song, but now it's Uncle Leroy saying, "Lord, Ms.

Claudy."

Well, I think, I... maybe this singing, maybe I got a little voice going for myself.

>>Narrator: In the 1960's and 70's, New York City was the creative hub of the universe.

Talented artists from all over flocked to pursue their dreams.

And so it was with five working class guys who first met in Brooklyn.

And bound by their love of harmony and song, became one of the most popular Acapella groups in history.

>>Jerry Lawson: When I met the Persuasions on the basketball court, and the people used to say, "Hey, man, you guys sound good.

What you're going to sing tonight?

You all oughta get a group together."

If that won't do, then I'll try something new I'm gonna try something new >>Narrator: Jerry Lawson was their leader.

>>Jerry Lawson: I was born in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

Joe Russell was born in Henderson, North Carolina.

Toubo was born in South Carolina.

Jimmy Hayes was born in Virginia.

Jay was born in Detroit.

But The Persuasions, we were born in Brooklyn, New York.

Amen for Brooklyn.

>>Roxie Roker: The Persuasions, you guys are really terrific <Thank you> Who's the lead singer?

Lawson: I am.

>>Roxie Roker: And you are?

>>Jerry Lawson: Jerry Lawson.

>>Roxie Roker: Hi, Jerry.

<Hi> Would you like introduce the other members of the group?

>>Jimmy Hayes: I'm Jimmy Hayes.

I'm the bass.

>>Jessie Russell: Jessie Russell, second tenor.

>>Toubo Rhoad: Herbert Rhoad, Baritone.

>>Jayotis Washington: Jayotis Washington, first tenor.

>>David Dashev: The first time I ever encountered The Persuasions was in Jersey City, probably in the very early 70's.

I'm not exactly sure what the time frame was.

I was walking past a record store.

Back in the day, record stores had loudspeakers in which they were blasting whatever they wanted you to buy.

And I heard The Persuasions.

I didn't know who they were or what they were.

It was a live tape of a concert that had happened in Jersey City.

Couldn't get it out of my head.

I grew up in Jersey City.

There was a lot of stoop singing that went on.

There was a lot of Acapella, and it sounded to me so familiar, yet so original.

>>Jerry Lawson: A lot of people come up to me, and they say, "What advice would you give a person that wants to be a singer?"

And I say, "Well, 50% of it is luck."

>>David Dashev: I called The Persuasions, and I said, Listen, guys, I think you're the greatest in the world.

And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I did my little nervous wrap.

And basically, after about five minutes, they said, "Who are you?"

you know, "What... what's this all about?"

I said, "Listen.

You guys don't know me, but you got to trust me.

And I think you should have an album.

And I have an appointment with Frank Zappa."

Any way the wind blows, We listened to the entire concert.

And he says, without even stopping, he said, "This is great.

I want them on a label."

Any way the wind blows >>Jerry Lawson: He loved Doo-Wop singing, and he loved the way we sung Acapella, and the rest is really history.

>>David Dashev: I didn't know that that kind of thing never happens.

But it was done.

Wham, bam.

I ran out.

I called the guys.

I said, "You're not going to believe this.

But, we're going to have a record deal.

And we're going to be on Straight Records."

"So, it's like Straight Records?"

"Yeah, it's distributed by Warner Brothers, but it's Straight Records."

(laughter) >>Jerry Lawson: That was, uh, he was a heavy guy boy.

>>David Dashev: This was early 70's, probably the golden era of soul music.

traffic sounds The urban scene.

It was the era when the Knicks were in all their glory.

In fact, if you look at the very first album "We Came to Play," we're wearing basketball uniforms, warm up suits, and we're on a funky basketball court in Bed-Stuy.

We wanted to be the New York Knicks of Acapella.

But, that's how we saw ourselves as barnstorming, instead of to gigs, to games.

And so, we would go into every different city.

And we had that mentality that we were going to win that city.

Maybe because it was five, it was a magic number.

Basketball.

That's how we did it.

We were urban.

(court chatter) In the context of the early 70's, we were never an oldies group.

It was always a pure, almost deconstructed sound that we were going for.

>>Barry Richards: I got a group, now, that I can't believe, man.

This group is really out of sight.

This group has completely annihilated me every time I've heard their tunes.

Let's look at them.

Here are The Persuasions.

I just can't work no longer... >>Jerry Lawson: David had to influence a lot of people, because it was pretty hard to get five guys with no band into show business.

And I hadn't given him that much credit.

He did it.

Whatever it took.

Oh Lord.

When the sun comes, you know it shines Lord, I ain't complaining about it 'cause I done wrong and I'm serving my time >>David Dashev: The Persuasions were, and this is a word I've never used in anything to do with me, a calling.

What I wanted to do with them was grab every human being by the shoulder and say, "Put down what you're doing and listen to this."

>>Rip Rense: Dashev was kind of combination of The Persuasions, Brian Epstein and George Martin for the Beatles.

He was the fire in the fireplace.

He directed their careers, very intelligently.

>>Jerry Lawson: The Persuasions.

Where did we get The Persuasions from?

We got it from the Bible, because we found out that Christ had to persuade people to follow His teaching.

He still is.

Got to persuade people to believe in the religion, you know?

What better name for us if we're going to sing without a band?

Because we got to persuade people to get into this.

>>Jerry Lawson(file): Acapella.

What is this thing, acapella?

What is them five cats doing?

You see acappella, first of all, it starts with an A.

It ends with an A.

Another definition.

See, when we came over on the boat, we didn't have no band.

We still don't got a band.

We don't want a band.

>>Barry Richards: You sound beautiful just the way you are.

You don't need a band.

Jerry: Have mercy, thank you.

You sound better than some bands.

I'm serious.

I mean, I'm into, like, when people used to hang out on the street corners in the old 50's and sing the Doo-wops.

You all are from that area, aren't you?

>>Jerry Lawson: Right.

We're from New York, Brooklyn, Bed-Stuy.

And we sung acapella with the groups in the park and on the corners, street corners.

And this is what we're doing, is street corner singing.

But, like I said, it goes back further than that.

It goes back to the cotton fields.

>>Ilene Scott: Actually, if I didn't meet Jerry, I thought I was going to become a nun.

My mother kept me in the Church, the Catholic Church, going to Confession.

And I really, I thought I was going to be a nun until I met him.

That was over.

(laughs) I remember.

He was almost 21 Well, I can't quite explain the situation >>Ilene Scott: Every song that Jerry sang, I loved it.

>>David Ackerman: He is one of many great black male baritones who came out of the Church.

>>Sean Altman: He's up there with Otis Redding and with Sam Cooke.

There's something in Jerry's voice that tugs at my heartstrings and excites me.

He wondered if he got it right or wrong But, Johnny killed that man... >>Jerry Lawson: You can't go wrong when you learn from the people that know what they were doing, you know?

If you could listen to the diction of Nat King Cole when he's sing "Love is for.." You see what I'm saying?

That's not the way I talk.

But I learned from the Masters.

Love.

He never say love.

>>David Dashev: Jerry loved to sing.

The only thing he loved more than singing was singing for somebody.

Jerry never took a music lesson in his life.

This is a guy who was born to do what he was doing.

>>Yvette Lawson: I look at the YouTube videos.

You know, sometimes when I'm at work, and I just pull them up and I just look at them.

And I said, "Wow."

He's done a lot.

I don't realize it, because he's just my Dad.

I'm going home, one day to see my woman I'm going home.

Oh, yes I am I'm going home.

Can't work no longer I gotta go home >> Rip Rense: This was something that got into your being, into your DNA, into your blood and healed you.

You know, it, made you healthier (laughs) >> Ilene Scott: I never stopped believing the dream for him.

I knew he was going to make it.

He was going to make it with me or without me.

And like I said, I wanted that for him.

I wanted that for The Persuasions.

>>Jerry Lawson: I burnt the midnight oil.

(applause) I had to learn everything, as far as being a lead singer.

As far as arranging songs.

It's very important that you know what each guy is capable of doing.

You got to know them inside out.

You got to know how they walk, how they talk, you know.

What they're going to say.

The songs that they can't sing.

The songs that we can sing.

You never be worried...

I could sing, uh, uh, "That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang."

But when the bass say, "Well, don't you know?

Well, don't you know?"

And then the group say, "Ooh, aah, ooh."

And you put it all together and it comes into one.

Then the leader being the lead singer, he could say, "Wow, now that's good."

(applause) >> David Ackerman: You can say you're the producer.

You can be the guy that pays the session guys.

You can be the guy that orders up the fruit and cheese platter.

But when it comes to actually making the music, Jerry Lawson was the guy who did it.

>>David Dashev: He had a great ear, a phenomenal ear, a natural ear, perfect pitch.

>>Jerry was very fortunate because he hooked up with them.

And the five of them were so easy to hire.

Baby.

Baby, baby, baby, baby >>David Ackerman:They toured with plenty of people.

and they were easy.

There was no equipment to lug around.

They had a couple of changes of clothes, and that was it.

And so, because of it, Jerry saw the world.

...going for someone new.

I can feel his presence, honey when I'm kissing you.

>>Jerry Lawson did not evolve over the years.

He didn't need to.

He was fully formed.

He sprung onto the scene with an amazing knowledge of all different genres.

>>Claude McKnight: The kinds of music that they were doing at the time, at least to me, seemed to be groundbreaking in a way.

>>David Thomas: The Persuasions did all kinds of genres of music.

They did R and B, they did pop, they did jazz, they did gospel.

>>Claude McKnight: And, it didn't seem like they really wanted to fit into a mold, that you could say they only do this kind of music.

It just happened to be acapella.

America, lady sing.

.

>>My bias, if I start to think about my favorite R and B singers, you know, it's Otis Redding.

It's Al Green.

It's Sam Cooke.

It's Jerry Lawson.

It's almost an innate sense of communication.

Like this is how happy I am about this or this is how sad I am about this.

And I think you get it.

It was absolutely right out of a Church.

...you send my son off to serve this country.

That you would send the boy back to me.

a stone junkie.

>> Yvette Lawson: Growing up with him, it was pretty exciting.

There was always music in the house.

The guys used to always come and practice there in the living room, and uh, we used to sing.

I used to sing.

I don't know what I was singing, but I was singing something.

And it was just, always music in the house.

In Arizona, and Mexico.

Came a brand new soldier The Indians called him Buffalo >>Jerry Lawson: I found out that I sort of like songs that tell stories.

When you learn from the Masters, you understand most of them sung deep meaning songs.

Heroes of the Tenth Cavalry >>Rip Rence: He just had innate charisma that came from a deep love of singing.

Ooh, ooh They were tired... He would find a way to invest that heart and love in what he was doing.

there were times...

But, he would find something in the song that would speak to him in order that he could convey that to you.

They had to keep on fighting, so that someday we would be free We want to thank you right here.

Buffalo Soldiers >>Jerry Lawson: Music in itself is a form of expression.

This is why it's so important to pick the right material.

People say you could sing the phone book.

Well, maybe you can, but you got to sing the phone book that, to me, that really makes you feel something.

That makes you feel that you're telling a story and you want to help somebody along the way.

You a man.

Whoa...

I wonder, when will they call you a man Oh Lord, I wonder, when will they call you a man >>Johnny Carson: I guess you call that street corner singing, which they do.

They met these fellows about eight years ago on a basketball court.

They've been singing together for eight years, and they appeared in places, diverse places, the Royal Albert Hall in London and the 125th Street subway station.

(laughter) That's not a bad, terrible gig, yeah.

And the latest album is called "More Than Before."

I don't want nobody else but you, ah baby No one treats me, darling, quite the way you do >>Rip Rence: When you see Jerry sing or you hear him sing, it's not about Jerry.

It's about the song.

I need you for myself I swear I don't want.

I don't need nobody Sometimes I can't even breathe Can't even see.

>>Sean Altman: Every time I see young Acapella groups with incredibly busy vocal arrangements and one guy doing this and three guys doing that and all this counterpoint, I say, "You should really just listen to that first Persuasions record.

Or the first two or three, just to hear how simple it is and how effective it is to arrange something simply and sweetly the way Jerry Lawson does it."

I need it real bad, oh Lord I don't care what they say.

I'm going to love you each and every day I swear, I don't want nobody but you >>Jerry Lawson: I think that's why you're really in show business.

You get joy from your fans.

To see your fans get up and clap their hands, that gives you self-satisfaction.

I need it real bad Nobody but you (applause) >>I think what people remember is Jimmy Hayes "brb, brb, brb, brb..." and Jerry.

And Jerry, you know, for whatever else, he could chirp, man.

There's a quote for you.

>>Jerry Lawson: A theater in Oakland...

I was there with Bobby McFerrin and Bobby McFerrin was the star of the show.

And also, a ventriloquist was on the show.

Well, this ventriloquist, we were sharing a dressing room and everything, and he came in and he had this suitcase and he went out.

He said, "Watch my suitcase.

I'll be right back."

Well, I kind of like, opened the suitcase.

And in the suitcase was this dummy.

And I looked, and the guy wasn't there, you know.

And I looked back at the dummy in the suitcase.

And I looked... the guy, the guy wasn't there.

So, I took the dummy out of the box, out of the suitcase, and I put my hand up in the dummy.

And I figured it out.

These little things that, they go in your finger.

They move his eyes.

And I moved his eyes.

And the dummy's eyes started moving.

And I put my thumb and his mouth started moving.

So, I started talking and everything like the dummy.

And I said, "I can do this, man.

I don't want to sing with The Persuasions no more.

I'm gonna be a ventriloquist, man."

And the guy walked back in and he saw me with his dummy.

Boy, that was the wrongest thing I could have did.

I told that guy.

He said, "Man," he said, "You are wrong, brother, you are wrong.

That's the wrongest thing you could do in your life, brother.

You are wrong."

And I knew that I was wrong.

And I apologized to the guy.

I said, "Mister, I swear to God, I'm so sorry."

Meanwhile, I'm just taking my hand out and I put this thing back down in the little box, like it was laying in a casket or something, looking dead, now, because when I took my fingers out, his eyes closed.

And I was still apologizing to the guy.

And he said, "No apology, ain't no apology.

No apology necessary.

No apology is accepted.

No apology..." And he kept on, man.

And I tell you, I did.

I got an attitude.

And I said, "Listen, man.

I already apologized to you.

I ain't gonna apologize no more.

I'll take this damn dummy and I'll make sawdust out of it."

We almost got in a fight.

>>When I think about the engine of The Persuasions, it always comes down to Jerry Lawson and Jimmy Hayes.

Jimmy Hayes was, in my opinion, probably the best bass singer that has ever lived.

>>Jerry Lawson: I worked downtown, and I was an elevator operator in a store called Goodwin's and riding the bus every day.

And I get on the bus.

And I met this guy.

This guy was singing, "Hey, old man river.

Just keep rolling, keep on rolling.

Keep on rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling along."

I said, "Wow.

Boy, this guy's got a bass voice."

>>Barry Richards: Let me hear the bass one time.

How low are you?

>> Jerry: The bass is behind you >>Barry: Oh, excuse me.

(laughter) >>Jimmy Hayes: I'll let Joe tell you how low I am.

(laughter) No, you know, sometime, in the mornings, when I wake up, you can hit the lowest thing on the piano, and I can get it.

That's at times.

I heard you talking about you being a bass singer also.

>>Barry: Yeah, I always wanted to hang out with some R&B groups and do the bass, but I never quite made it.

>>Jerry Lawson: We're not a doo-wop group.

You know, take for instance, I sing, Hovering by my suitcase, trying to find a warm place to spend the night.

Spend the night.

Spend the night.

Spend the night.

Heavy rain falling, I hear your voice calling.

>>David Dashev: Jimmy was terrific.

And the match with Jerry Lawson was really special, because it was almost symbiotic in that Jerry and Jimmy spoke the same language.

And I'm not even talking about a verbal language.

There were looks that were exchanged.

There were nods of the head.

Jimmy knew exactly when to come in.

Jerry knew when Jimmy was going to come in.

Musically, they could finish each other's sentences.

It was like an exquisite jazz combination.

Through the night.

The distant moaning of the train... >>Jimmy was the foundation, the rock, the bottom, the beat.

Jerry was all the elaboration, the lyricism and every bit of nuance that fit over that beat.

A rainy, rainy night in Georgia.

It seems like it's raining all over the world It seems like it's raining all over the world >>The best music The Persuasions ever made was music that they made over lunch or in the car or on an airplane.

It was nothing that we ever captured or recorded, but they could do things together that would just spontaneously break into song.

It sounded as if they had been rehearsing for ages.

And I knew, after a long time, this is the first time either of them were doing this.

Passing time.

Passing time.

Late at night when it's hard to rest Hold my picture to her chest and I feel fine >>And then they would teach it to the other guys.

Rainy night in Georgia.

Lord, it seems like it's raining all over the world It seems like it's raining all over the world It seems like it's raining all over the world It seems like it's raining all over the world >>Jimmy Hayes: See, you didn't hear doo-wop one time in that song, right?

(laughter) >>David Dashev: It's hard to describe how close these two really were.

For example, they lived together on the road.

They would sleep together in the same room for all the years that we were together.

They had this kind of closeness that had no boundaries.

>> Jimmy Hayes: You want to know if we fight?

>>Dashev: The phrase, "Got your back."

had new meaning with these two.

>>Jimmy:You're playing lead guitar... >>Dashev: And they could talk to other and give looks to each other that none of the other guys in the group would even approach.

>>Jerry: And my line, I say, "Well, well.

I caught a passing cab..." >>Yeah, I know you do.

>>You do the bass, do the bass and see, ain't you doing what I taught you?

(laughter) Do the bass.

Have you ever been to Spain, where the joyful, laughing people make you happy again >>Jerry Lawson: William Morris was sending us all over the world now.

I got to go to Israel.

So, I went down to the passport place to get my passport so I could leave the country.

And the lady, she said, "We got no record of you ever being born."

And I said, "Well, I was born in Fort Lauderdale, Florida."

So, she said, "Well, I suggest you contact the people in Fort Lauderdale and get a birth certificate because we don't have a birth certificate."

Well, I went then to my mom, Estee, and I said, "Listen, I need a birth certificate, because, blah, blah, blah."

So, my moms gave me a piece of paper.

Now she undoubtedly had this piece of paper ever since I was born.

And on the piece of paper, it said, "I Rosa White, give Estelle the authority to get this baby out of the hospital."

So, she used that piece of paper to go get me out of the hospital.

My mind ain't clicking on what's going on here.

Something's wrong here.

Well, that's when I found out that Estee, my mother, wasn't really my mother.

She was a cousin.

And I said to my mother, I said, "You're not my mother."

And she fell out on the floor.

I never will forget it.

She fell out on the floor, and she told me what the truth was.

What happened was that, your mother, she didn't want people to know that she was pregnant.

So, she went to the hospital.

She had the baby, but she left the baby in the hospital.

And I said to her, I said, "Listen, you're my mother, and we'll never, ever talk about this again.

You're the only mother I got.

We'll never, ever talk about this again."

Love of my life I love you so.

>>Julie Lawson: I had been at a party.

I was about 17.

I was with my high school boyfriend, and music was playing and the record changed.

And then something came on that I had never heard before.

And I asked who it was.

And they told me the name of the group.

I couldn't stop listening.

I just had to let it flow.

It was so deep.

It was so moving.

It became a daily ritual to listen to this man and his group.

This went on for probably almost five years.

I was walking down Main Street, Boylston Street.

There was a famous jazz club, two clubs, actually, adjacent, Pauls Mall and the Jazz Workshop.

And I saw on the marquis, it said The Persuasions.

I said, "No way.

This could not be."

So, we got there.

And it was a very intimate club.

We got there early and had a seat right, table right up front.

And I said to my friend, I said, "I wonder if he's going to sing."

And I started naming some songs.

And she said, "Why don't you just go to the dressing room and put a request on a napkin or something?"

I said, "I couldn't do that.

No way."

I was much too shy.

And I thought, "You don't just go knock on someone's dressing room door."

She kept bugging me.

And finally, she said, "You may never have this opportunity again, Julie.

If those songs are songs you want to hear, it couldn't hurt to try."

So, I did.

I timidly went up to the dressing room, knocked on the door.

One of The Persuasions, I recognized him from the album cover, it was Jayotis Washington.

He opened the door with a big grin and I'm shaking with my little napkin of requests.

And I asked him if he would give it to Jerry Lawson.

And he said, "Jerry, who?"

He said, "No, I'm just kidding.

Of course I'll give it to him."

>>Jerry Lawson: And I said, "Who gave you this note?"

And he said... when we got on the stage I said, "Show me the girl."

He said, "That's her there."

I said, "Wow, damn, she's pretty."

And, afterwards, I said, "I've got to meet her.

>>Julie: And, he extended his hand.

He said, "Good evening.

I'm Jerry Lawson."

So that was the beginning.

Love of my life Why do birds sing, so gay?

Lovers await the break of day Why do they fall in love?

Why does the rain fall from up above?

>>Jerry Lawson: Now we're traveling around the world with Liza Minelli.

And the next we're travelling with Joni Mitchell.

And the next thing I know, I'm opening for BB King, and I'm opening..

I get to meet Ray Charles.

And I'm going out to LA for two weeks recording with Stevie Wonder.

Who's living next door to me in my apartment but Little Richard.

And I'm just, "Ah, is this for real?

Is this really happening to this little country boy from Florida?"

Why do fools fall in love?

(Applause) (razor buzzing) >>Jerry Lawson: We's in Chicago.

And we went into the hotel and uh, they had a nightclub there.

And so, Toubo started talking to this fine chick.

And she was into Toubo and everything.

And so, >>She was into him?

>>Jerry Lawson: She was into him.

>>Like him a lot?

>>Jerry Lawson: Yeah, she liked him a lot.

So, when I saw Toubo, he was buying her dinner and everything.

And then we went into the bar and Toubo was over at the table and he was buying her drinks and everything.

And about 11 o'clock that night, I saw Toubo getting on the elevator.

They was going up to the room, you know.

So, when Toubo got up in the room, the bartender, he said, "Man, I like your boy."

He said, "But man, you know, the guy that he brought upstairs, that's a man."

>>Ah?

(laughter) And so, I told Toubo the next morning, at breakfast, you know I said, "Toubo, you know the guy said that was a man that you went upstairs with."

Toubo says, "Too late, now."

(laughter) "Too late, now" (laughter) (razor buzzing) Amen.

Amen >>Claude McKnight: The Persuasions and Jerry Lawson certainly influenced modern day acapella in quite a few ways.

And I remember hearing them and being like, "Yeah, these cats are the truth."

You could tell that they had been together for a long time, and they had that polish.

And they had that camaraderie.

>>David Thomas: So, it was really The Persuasions, though, unlike some of those other groups, uh, that really laid the groundwork more fully for groups like Take Six.

>>Claude McKnight: You know, I started Take Six based on those kinds of harmonies and that kind of energy.

Getting me down and people are just too much for me to face Up on the Roof Well, well, well.

Listen >>Narrator: For years, The Persuasions worked hard to please their audiences.

Their shows were magical.

But life on the road had its pitfalls.

>>Yvette Lawson: Oh boy.

I have stories.

>>David Dashev: Jerry Lawson drank, and he drank to excess.

Euphemistically, he had demons.

>>Jerry Lawson: I'm singing, I do a show and I had a good time.

I have a couple of drinks and I had a good time.

And you find out that 61 one nighters is turning to 365 days and the little half a pints turn into pints and the pints turn into fifths, and you find yourself drinking, drinking, drinking.

>>So, he drank this thing down like water.

And that is, honestly, I took that away more than anything from that night that he was that talented who also had that kind of capacity for alcohol.

>>Sean Altman: The first half of those Bitter End Persuasion shows were electrifying.

Jerry was in amazing form, taking command.

And then about halfway through, he would stop and you could, sort of, see that he was under the influence of something.

>>Jerry Lawson: I remember people was saying, "Boy, you did a hellified show last night, man," and I was saying, "I don't remember none of it."

>>Ilene Scott: When Jerry would come home from a show, he was feeling no pain, you know.

He's feeling good and he's drinking, drank and did whatever.

And I kept her from around that.

I didn't want her to see that side of her Dad.

>>Yvette Lawson: I've always been the T.D.

Jakes, Oprah-type person, where you got to change your circle.

And some of the people that he was hanging around with, they weren't any good as far as, they would drink and do the same thing.

And I said, "You've got to stop this."

>>Jerry Lawson: All my Mastercard bill was, Orlando Florida, ABC Liquor, Sanford Florida, liquor store.

South Carolina, liquor store.

North Carolina, liquor store.

Washington, DC, liquor store.

New York City, New York City, liquor store.

Liquor store.

Chicago, liquor store.

Boston, liquor store.

Now on that master charge card, on that master charge bill was nothing.

50-60 liquor stores.

That's where I had gone, to the liquor store.

Jerry Lawson, you got a problem.

>>Yvette Lawson: So yeah, I saw the signs and some of the family saw the signs.

But, what could we do?

Just pray on it.

>> The other guys came to resent the fact that he was drinking as much as he was.

>>They've seen him drunk plenty.

There are people that you know so well, that when they get drunk, you know what they're going to do before they know.

>>David Dashev: It was very difficult to say to him, "Cut back, do this, do that."

The things that he verbalized that were so critical to him seemed to take second, third and fourth place, once those lips touch booze.

>>Yvette Lawson: I remember a phone call I got from him and he said they were traveling overseas and he was intoxicated on the plane.

And maybe, I don't remember the whole story.

But, I think when he got off the plane, he didn't realize how intoxicated he was or what he was doing.

And when he got off the plane, they had him in handcuffs.

I forgot where he was going.

They had them in handcuffs.

And that right there, he realized.

He called me and he said, "Yvette, I'm admitting myself."

>>Jerry Lawson: The embarrassment of it.

People want me to stop.

People that really love me.

My wife really loved me.

She wanted me to stop.

My daughter, both of them, the little one, the little daughter.

She wouldn't even say nothing.

But, she know her dad had problems, but she never said nothing.

>>Yvette Lawson: It took a toll on us.

It took a toll on my family, even though he wasn't with my mother, it took a toll on everybody.

>>David Dashev: No one forced him to get sober.

He got it.

He understood that the Lawson that he wanted to be, was not compatible with the alcoholic that he was becoming.

>>Yvette Lawson: It's unbelievable.

It's like a light just, you know, shined through the tunnel.

There's a change in my life since you came along Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah >>Jerry Lawson: Julie taught me what love was all about.

And the challenge is, you know, just part of love.

The challenges, the ups and downs, that's part of it.

Please don't take me away.

When Julie and I started dating, it was, the funny thing was, that we never saw color.

Can't be denied. Me being a Black man from the South, Julie being a White Jewish girl from the north.

One of the most proudest days in my life was when Julie, in San Augustine, Florida, she said, "I do."

We wasn't fooled at all about the struggle of the Black man and the White man in this country.

>>We've been almost run over.

We've been beat up in public, while 50 people stood by and watched.

Been evicted.

Um, Really changes your whole mindset.

>>Jerry Lawson: One day we got up and my wife, she said to me, she said, "Let's jog."

I was into fitness, then, at the time.

So, I said, "Yeah."

I put my little jogging hat on and my jogging apparatus around my wrist.

And we started jogging.

And she took out and started running.

And I was behind her.

And I thought about where I am.

Scottsdale, this white woman is running in front of me.

I'm running behind her trying to get her, trying to catch her.

And I said to my wife, "Whoa.

Stop, stop, stop."

Because something's wrong with this picture.

I'm chasing this White woman.

And I said to her, "Let me take the lead.

You get behind me."

And then we started jogging again.

And I said, "Whoa, stop."

Because, I done stole something and this White woman is running behind me trying to catch me to stop.

And I say, "You know what?

I think we ought to give up on this jogging.

Let's go back in the house."

(laughter) >>Julie Lawson: There are some places in the United States where it was easier.

San Francisco, of course, probably Seattle area, but basically, everywhere else we went, we were looked at.

>>Jerry Lawson: Understanding is one of the greatest things in the world.

And that's part of it, understanding where we came from, understanding her life, how hard it must have been for her to go to her people, because I was there and for her to say, "I'm married to a Black man."

>>It didn't matter that they were so open-minded in so many ways and had Black friends, but to marry one?

>>or, for me to go to my people and say, "I'm married to a White woman."

Well, my wife, I never will forget.

When my mother passed away, my wife dressed my mother in that funeral, and my wife was at the funeral, in the Church that my mother attended, and all of the Black people accepted my wife.

I often tell people, I don't know whether it's a joke or not, but my wife is more Black than I am.

Love is the answer.

Love will conquer hate.

I have to live for me and Ms. Julie and I do the best I can.

>>Narrator: With 40 years and 22 albums behind them, the group pressed on, but the passage of time brought cracks in the armor.

Ultimately, rifts among members would alter The Persuasions forever.

>>Rip Rense: Jerry was very disenchanted with The Persuasions, for I would say at least the last ten years, maybe longer.

Their performances could be ragged.

I won't go into specifics as to how or why.

But, Jerry was very frustrated by this.

>>Jerry Lawson: Because I care about my music.

I care about the art.

And I always thought that this was something special.

God took his time to give us this acapella.

People didn't even know what it was.

>>He perceived that those guys were sort of jealous of his, what seemed to be about the solo success.

>>Jerry Lawson: The things that was happening that I didn't like, it's like the Bible say, when the devil move into your house, you either get out or the devil is going to control it.

And I saw that the devil was taking over the group.

>>Rip Rense: He'd had enough of the acrimony.

He had enough of the pressure.

He had enough of life on the road.

>>And there developed, at first, indifference and then a certain level of enmity between Jerry and Jimmy.

>>They had a tour schedule.

They felt like he was keeping him on a string.

And at one point, Jimmy said to him, "We need to know, Are you in?

Are you out?"

And he said that the way Jimmy said that to him, he found it so disrespectful and so hurtful that his brother, his confidant, the loyal Jimmy, who had always been his guy, would turn on him that way.

He felt that something died in it for him.

And that was when he felt like he had to leave.

>>Jerry Lawson: Jimmy Hayes and I, I thought, we was like brothers.

Jimmy was the brother that I never had.

And that's how I felt about Jimmy, until I found out that Jimmy didn't feel that way about me.

And Jimmy told me that one night and I didn't understand what he was saying.

He said to me one night when I told him about how I feel about brothers.

He said, "Yeah, but because you feel that way about a person don't mean that the person got to feel that way about you."

>>I found that really sad.

>>These were guys that were closer than any birth brothers.

>>That they could not be on good terms at the end, well, I think that's not unusual in life.

Will shine, >>If I could do anything over again, it would have been now to try and put those guys in a room together.

But, it was really very, very tragic to me that that falling out occurred and was maintained and will never be able to be revisited.

piano music piano music >>Jerry Lawson: My moms.

That's all I knew my whole life was Estelle, Estee, that's my mother.

And my mother, what a provider she was.

Coming up in Apopka, I considered myself as a little rich kid.

In fact, people in town called me the little rich kid.

They used to see me and my momma, they called me and my Mama "Frick and Frack."

They said, "Oh, here come Frick and Frack," because when you see me, you saw her.

I remember a lady, she asked me in front of my mother.

She said, "Where did you get that beautiful voice from Jerome?

And my mother, she got a little angry.

She said, "Where do you think you got it from?"

But, my mother said that, as if I came out of her womb.

You see what I'm saying?

And I never will forget the way she said it.

That, I really, and I believe in her mind, I came from her.

That's how deep the love was between me and my mother.

You know, she went through dementia.

I learned how to take care of her.

You find that you get more joy when she's clean and she's smelling good, you laugh, you know?

So, you know, that she got to go.

You know she don't know how to go to the bathroom, get up and go to the bathroom.

She did all her life.

And think about this, Mr. Jerry Lawson, hotshot.

Did she take care of you?

Did she take care of you, Mr. Hotshot?

Think about it.

She ain't even your mother.

She took care of you, boy.

She ain't even your mother.

Take care of her.

Take care of her boy.

Man, I took care of her.

And I took care till she left this Earth.

When she passed, I often wondered, you know, because God worked in mysterious ways.

And now I done left The Persuasions.

Me and my wife, we done moved here to Arizona.

And we bought a house.

We bought the house with me with The Persuasions.

But, this thing came over me and I left The Persuasions.

Now I done left The Persuasions, I got a house and no job.

Please give your loving heart to me and say we'll never part. >>Jerry Lawson: I went down to get me a job.

And it got to this point in the application where it said, you need a reference.

I ain't got any references.

You know, BB King, Liza Minnelli, Etta James, only references I got.

>>Jerry Lawson: I work for the Arizona Mentor Program, which is a program dedicated and taking care of developmentaly disabled adults.

One boy, he's got no family, Richie.

He's a mute.

He don't speak.

He don't even hear.

But, he knows he's loved.

Out of everything that you can give them, the one thing that they need most is knowing that they are loved, knowing that they wanted.

And that's what we give them.

>>What demonstrates more this aspect of his character than his job.

How many people in show business take a job working with severely disabled adults?

>>More so than just being compassionate, Jerry is an angel.

>>He loves them, and they adore him.

>>Jerry Lawson: They teach you so much.

They don't know prejudice.

They don't even know what it means.

>>He's just one of those people who wants to give back.

He's had a good life, and he wants to give back.

And thank God my son just happened to fall in his graces.

>> I've often said that God works in such mysterious ways.

The taking care of my mother, cleaning and wiping my mother, led me to taking care of the developmentally disabled.

You know?

This is the superstar.

The big superstar.

>>Jerry Lawson: After I left The Persuasions in 2003, I didn't think I wanted to sing acapella anymore, but a few years later, I heard this group called Talk of the Town.

I was sold.

We got together, and my wife, she said, "You guys need to make an album."

>>Rayfield Ragler, Sr.: Hopefully this thing will kick off big with Jerry.

We're hoping.

>>Andrew Stan Lockwood: But, the thing of it is that we've been chasing Jerry Lawson for a long time, right?

And we finally caught up with him.

>>Jerry Lawson: You know, one of the biggest thrills I got singing with Talk of the Town was when Rod Stewart invited us to fly down and sing, "People Get Ready" for the Katrina benefit, acapella.

>>Jerry Lawson: Rod Stewart want to do the what?

No way he want to sing "People Get Ready" with his band?

Nah, he wants us to sing acapella.

All aboard, get on board Listen, there's a train coming somewhere down the track The people that ain't ready got to step in the back Lord the train's been running since time began it's running on the love of your fellow man All aboard.

All aboard, get on board All aboard.

Get on Board All aboard.

Get on Board All aboard.

Get on Board Sometimes I feel like a motherless child All aboard.

Get on Board All aboard.

Get on Board (whoo) (applause) >>Hoping to make the women melt, with "Easy" by the Commodores.

It's Jerry Lawson and Talk of the Town.

I know it sounds funny but I just can't stand the pain Can't stand, can't stand the pain Girl, I'm leaving you tomorrow.

I'm leaving in the morning Seems to me, girl, you know, I've done all I can I've done everything I can girl I beg, sold and I borrowed, that's why I'm easy >>Jerry Lawson: The Sing Off was wonderful.

I mean, I enjoyed every minute of it.

It's been the ruins, the ruins of many a poor boy.

And God, I know I'm one.

well, well, well And God, I know I'm one.

(applause) >>David Dashev: When I hear some of the groups today that have taken acapella to the far more complex art form, I feel like Jerry Lawson has something to do with that.

>>Shawn Stockman: I think the Animals meant for the song to sound like that.

(applause) How did you turn that song into a gospel?

(laughter ) It was soul-stirring.

It made my spine curve, man.

It was off the hook.

Great job.

>>Nicole Scherzinger: Mr. Jerry Lawson and Talk Of The Town, I just have to say, "Lord have mercy."

(applause) I feel like every song that you sing brings new meaning to the song.

And it's just such a special gift.

Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

(applause) >>There's no words to express the feeling that I have You have to be inside of me to understand the feeling that I have and to be on the stage with all of the beautiful singers and the entertainers.

And to be able to be a part of preserving a special art, acapella, it means so much to me.

God bless.

(Applause) >>Jerry Lawson: We all thought the Sing Off was going to open some doors for for us, but it didn't quite happen that way.

>>Thank you so much.

>>Good to see you.

>>Okay.

>>If you wouldn't mind coming in, I have a few things for you to sign.

You've been on vacation a while.

We haven't seen you.

Come on in.

>>Jerry: Thank you.

Yeah, I was just out to... (Cheers and Yelling: "Jerry, Jerry!"

) >>When I saw those kids saying "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry" like an NBA game, it was very touching.

[vocalizing] [vocalizing] >>Jerry: You know, before they saw me on the Sing Off, the kids that I worked with knew nothing about my show business career.

>>Jerry: I found out after singing all over the world, nothing meant as much to me as having the blessings of those kids.

>>Dear, thank you.

Thank you.

>>Jerry: I didn't leave until I had given every one of those kids my autograph.

They wanted it, they got it.

Signing autographs is a really big thing.

>>All right!

(Cheers) >>Did you get 'em all done?

>>Jerry: I did 'em all.

Hand cramps, but we got 'em all.

piano music piano music >>Jerry: I'm just a mortal man.

I'm just a common man.

And that's the way I like for people to see me.

I call it doodling.

I just started doodling and my wife, she saw it and she sent it to a friend of hers and uh, they send it back and they sent it to me for Christmas.

And it was all done.

It was done.

(laughter) It was all done It was so beautiful.

It's funny.

This is just me doodling.

She said, this is just great stuff.

So, she took it up to frame and they told her this was FolkArt.

And I said, FolkArt?

So, this is some of my hidden talent.

I don't only sing.

I'm like, Tony Bennett.

He paint, and I color.

And I also draw, if you want to call this drawing.

This is FolkArt.

I've been trying to sing all these years and maybe my claim to fame is going to be in coloring, especially ducks.

I like ducks.

(quacking) >>Jerry : I spent my whole career singing acapella, but one of my big dreams was to sing with a band.

Then one day, Eric Brace walked into my life.

>>Eric Brace: No doubt that everything that comes out is going to be great.

Do you want to run through "Time and Water" just to see what will happen?

I forget how the intro is on the recording.

Try to put a price on every kiss.

>>Eric Brace: My best friend in high school was one of those guys who works in a record store.

Who knows everything.

One day I walked in and I heard "We Still Ain't Got No Band."

And Jerry's voice just did something to me, in that way, that very few voices have.

It's just one of those unforgettable voices that carries so much emotion with every lyric, every turn of phrase, every breath of it.

>>Jerry: Cool.

That's cool, man.

>>Jerry: That sounds good to me.

Don't bring your checkbooks Just your broken heart members only tonight If there's a way I can go, and leave this human skin far, far down below Say goodbye.

Goodbye world to being a mortal man >>Eric Brace: To be here in a studio where I can actually sing and record with him, it's absolutely a literal statement of fact that it's a dream come true.

>>Jerry: You wrote the song, you feel it, you know what you're writing.

So, I got to get as closest to your feelings.

And I'm listening to you saying that's the greatest thing you could do to an artist, is to hear you singing the song.

So, I listen to everything.

You don't even know how much I studied you.

2 3 4 >>Jerry: At this point in my life, I get a chance to give the world Jerry.

Will you be holding me when the morning comes?

Will you be holding me when the morning comes?

>>Jerry: That's something that I wanted to do all my life when the morning comes?

>>Julie Lawson: I think the first thing is to understand that the artist was born an artist.

They have to do what's in them.

They have to find their outlet, have their outlet, have their privacy to create, and they have to have support.

>>Jerry: Give that man a pen and a piece of paper.

(laughter) Keep on writing.

Time and water carve out canyons in the earth You never know till after it's done what the changing was worth Try to put a price on every kiss Every letter, every word >>Rip Rense: With a lot of showbiz people, there's this PR side and underneath it, there's a Jackass.

And in Jerry's case, underneath the PR side, there's this really fine man.

This notion of fame and fortune, which is so sadly pervasive in our society, needs to be thrown away.

And people need to pay attention more to the likes of Jerry Lawson and The Persuasions.

They lived to serve their art.

If you want this anymore Now, I'm rolling through a canyon, on a train that's getting closer >>Vissi D'Arte, to be pretentious about it.

That's a Puccini operatic aria.

I lived for art.

I never harmed a living soul.

Why do these terrible things keep happening to me, you know?

I always do Will you be holding me, when the day is done Will you be holding me, when the morning comes >>David Dashev: He looks for the basic core of humanity.

I watch the stars >>I've seen it in Spanish Harlem.

I've seen it in the most W.A.S.P part of Kentucky.

He can talk to people and touch them and get to them in a way that completely destroys anything that makes them different and focuses right in on what makes them the same.

Lord have mercy.

>>It's a real gift.

He can connect with anybody.

And I think the best Jerry Lawson is when he's doing that.

>>Rip Rense: Whether Jerry is widely considered one of the greats or not, he simply is one of the greats.

>>There are human beings who are given a gift.

Will you be holding me, >>David Ackerman: The talent speaks for itself.

>> Now they have this autotune, which is, like, the biggest joke.

But, for me, to work with somebody who had his ability to create an emotion, I was impressed.

I don't know what I'll do with all the answers >>Julie: If you're lucky enough to either be the one that's creative or be the recipient of someone else's creativity, that's a very special gift.

But I can't help wondering, as we pull into the station Is this where I'm supposed to be?

Is this where I'm staying forever?

Will you be holding me when the day is done, will you be holding me when the morning comes?

>>I don't think of Jerry as famous.

will you be holding me when the day is done?

That being said, I've worked with a lot of famous people.

But when I think of the things that I will be most proud of in my career, it's working with Jerry.

Will you be holding me when the morning comes?

(CREAK OF THE DOOR) (FOOTSTEPS) (TIRES RUBBING) >>Jerry Lawson: One of the songs that I really like, it says, "I went to the house where I used to live.

The grass had covered the door.

There was a man across the street.

He said, 'Son, who do you seek?'

I said, My mother and father say they don't live there anymore.

They are somewhere around the throne."

And then when you put it all together, it makes a lot of sense.

>>Music takes the pain out of life.

When I left home, there were so many things that I wanted to do for my hometown.

But, when I go back, it's different.

It's okay to look at the past, but not to stare at it.

(laughter) A handful of people know who I really am.

And that's part of aging.

>>Show me around.

And she pulled us up the other night, and we saw Mr. Chisholm on the computer.

Is this Mr. Wallace?

Mr. Wallace's place?

<yes> We used to go to Mr. Norman.

We used to see Johnny Mack Brown.

Where I was brought up, it was poor and run down.

Uptown, where the White people live and do business, it's all built up, and it's beautiful.

>>I've seen you on stage, but close up like this is a real honor.

>> But my part of town is still poor and broke down.

Why?

>>Julie Lawson: I have to say that first of all Apopka is a huge piece of Jerry's heart.

But it seemed that the day that they installed the street sign with his name across from his Mom's house, Jerry Lawson Way, that was huge.

He was very moved.

>>Mayor: Singer, arranger and producer... >>Julie: Who gets a street sign?

This is not the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

But, this is your hometown and across from the home that you shared with your mom... >>Mayor: collaborating with performers such as Frank Zappa, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles... >>Julie: That's amazing.

He made a joke with the Mayor that day, and he said, "Now, if a hurricane comes and blows this sign down, you're going to put a new one up, right?

(laughter) It doesn't just get blown away."

>>Jerry Lawson: A guy called me last week, and he said...

It's my best friend...

He said, "Jerome, you know where I'm at?

I'm standing up under Jerome Lawson Way, the sign that says your name.

>>Julie: It meant so much to Jerry that his oldest daughter, Wanda, was right by his side for that ceremony.

>>Jerry is a good soul.

Someone who means no harm.

Someone who cares about other people's joy.

Someone who is humble.

Jerry is so humble.

Some days, I think, he doesn't even know his own significance.

What he's contributed to the world of music.

What he's contributed to people's lives.

Many thousands, hundreds of thousands who he's never met.

>>Jerry Lawson: If you believe in the way that you were brought up, the way I was brought up with my mother.

you were brought up, the way I was brought up with my mother.

Oh, God.

She taught me so much about life, about being a good person.

That will go with me for the rest of my life.

>>On your tombstone, there's a dash.

The day that you were born and the day that you died.

Dash between it.

What did you do with your dash?

I hope my dash comes out OK. I love ya.

Oh Lord.

I need you.

Oh Lord.

(Hallelujah) I love,(Hallelujah) oh Lord.

I love,oh Lord.

Lord,oh Lord.

At peace,(Hallelujah) oh Lord.

(Hallelujah) Where,(Hallelujah)oh Lord.

Lord, Lord, Lord.

I want somewhere to lay my head, I want somewhere to lay my head.

I want somewhere to lay my head... >>Announcer: Jerry Lawson.

>>Jerry Lawson: Start a show up.

End the show.

What happens in the middle takes care of itself.

The same way with life.

I was just thinking to myself this morning.

What were you thinking?

You know I thought just how helpless I really am.

My hair is turning gray.

Get a new wrinkle every day.

Guess I'm just a mortal man.

Let me tell you about all my troubles.

I don't know if I'll ever Go to heaven.

Listen to me.

You never know, even I, even I might get to go.

If there's a way I can go I'll leave this human skin far, far down below.

>>Jerry: Oh, my God.

>>Julie: What is it?

But in the meantime, I'm still down here doing the best I can.

Lord, Lord, I've changed to being a mortal man.