Frederica Freyberg:
Starting July 1st, $36 million of Wisconsin’s share of the opioid settlement funds will start to be disbursed for the year. Wisconsin will receive a total of $750 million over several years from settlements reached in national lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies that made opioid drugs. According to the CDC, Wisconsin saw a 4% decrease in overdose deaths in 2023, down to a still staggering 1,754 deaths. Fentanyl and drugs laced with it account for most of the deaths. Here to talk about how the settlement money is being put to work, state Attorney General Josh Kaul. Thanks very much for being here.

Josh Kaul:
Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
Is it too early to say whether programs funded to date with settlement funds are helping drive down these deaths?

Josh Kaul:
It’s hard to know exactly how they link up to those kind of numbers, but what I can say with a lot of confidence is that those dollars are making a difference. So when we prepared to get funds allocated for the upcoming fiscal year, the Department of Health Services secretary designee and I met with stakeholders from around the state. We held roundtable events and we asked people on the front lines of the fight against the opioid epidemic to tell us what’s been working and where do we need more resources. One of the things we consistently heard from folks is that these funds are making a difference. They’re filling gaps where they’re needed. I’ll give you an example. Medicaid reimburses certain aspects of treatment for people who are struggling with substance use disorder, but there are parts that aren’t covered that can be critical like housing. Getting those kind of funds can help keep people in treatment and can help make them more successful. Now, let’s be clear. There are never going to be enough funds to address all the needs that we have, but the more dollars we can get to communities, the more that we can help keep people safe and save lives.

Frederica Freyberg:
How hard is it to release and reverse the grip of the opioid epidemic on this population?

Josh Kaul:
It’s been an enormous challenge for communities across the country. There has been some meaningful progress made, and it’s important to note that. Things like the PDMP and efforts to discourage overprescription of opioids. Those have made a difference and I think you’re seeing a reversal in the trend of opioid prescriptions, which had gone up dramatically over a few decades. On the other hand, we’re dealing with the impacts of the pandemic and social isolation. And more concerning, we’re dealing with the impacts of fentanyl, which is now laced in all sorts of drugs and is incredibly dangerous.

Frederica Freyberg:
Does the flow of fentanyl just keep coming and can law enforcement keep up?

Josh Kaul:
Right now the volume coming in is enormous and it’s mixed in all sorts of different types of drugs, so we’ve got to be doing a variety of things to keep people safe. One is we’ve got to make sure we are investigating and prosecuting drug traffickers who are shipping these incredibly dangerous drugs into our communities. That’s one of the things we do at DOJ. But we’ve also got to recognize that people are overdosing, sometimes not even realizing that they’re using opioids. So having harm reduction measures in place, like fentanyl test strips and Narcan, which are going to be funded through some of these opioid settlement funds, is also helping to save lives.

Frederica Freyberg:
How angry does the role of opioid manufacturers in this scourge make you?

Josh Kaul:
It makes me really upset. This problem would not have happened if it wasn’t for the pumping up of opioid prescriptions through efforts of pharmaceutical companies. When we filed our suit against Purdue Pharma just months after I took office as AG, we laid out in our complaint, our allegations about how this whole thing started. If you go back decades, opioid prescriptions were incredibly low in Wisconsin and nationwide, but through efforts of companies like Purdue Pharma to really push opioids to promote studies that were not actually valid, to encourage doctors to prescribe opioids, there’s been a major addiction epidemic that’s happened and the impacts that we’re seeing are still to this day in significant part being driven by that.

Frederica Freyberg:
In Wisconsin, do any of the settlement monies go to individuals impacted?

Josh Kaul:
The way the settlements were structured is that they are focused on abating future harm. So there have been some separate legal actions involving the individuals who were impacted, but these funds, based on the terms of the settlement, are meant to be forward-looking in terms of preventing harm. So certainly if there are people who are struggling with substance use disorder who were impacted previously, this might help them get the kind of support that they need, but it’s separate from providing the kind of compensation for somebody who was injured.

Frederica Freyberg:
On another score, as you well know, Arizona this week arraigned false Republican electors alleged to be part of a falsely electoral — falsifying electoral documents. What about Wisconsin’s false electors who settled a civil suit? Will you be criminally charging them?

Josh Kaul:
I can say a few things. First, it is vitally important that anybody who committed a crime with the goal of overturning the results of an election be held accountable, and there have been significant steps towards accountability through the federal prosecution of former president Trump that’s ongoing right now. A number of states have now brought charges. At the Department of Justice, we don’t confirm or deny the existence of ongoing investigations and charging decisions that DAs ultimately make are only announced when they’re happening. But again, it’s critical that anybody who committed a crime to overturn an election is held accountable.

Frederica Freyberg:
What concerns do you have heading into the November elections about a repeat of the aftermath of the 2020 election?

Josh Kaul:
I think it’s something we need to be vigilant about. In 2020, we knew that there were a number of threats to the security of our elections, and so we made sure to make clear to people that if there was voter intimidation at the polls or voter fraud, that people needed to expect to be held accountable. Fortunately, in 2020, Election Day went smoothly. I think a lot more smoothly than people anticipated. Of course we then saw significant litigation in the aftermath of that election. I expect that we will see litigation again in the aftermath of this election. In 2020, we defended the states’ voters and their choice for president and we won every single case. But one of those cases was 4-3 in our state Supreme Court. Now, this year, the composition of the Supreme Court has changed a bit and we’re going to be prepared to defend the results and ensure the will of the voters is upheld. We succeeded in 2020 and I’m confident we will again in 2024 but we’re also not going in with any misunderstanding that we’re not going to potentially be in for a challenge again.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Attorney General Josh Kaul, thanks very much.

Josh Kaul:
Thanks for having me.