Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Donald Trump:
I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear…

Frederica Freyberg:
As Donald Trump takes the oath of office and makes good on campaign promises, party players from federal and state houses roll out their adjacent agendas.
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson and Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore respond to the swift action happening in Washington. Stateside, Governor Tony Evers delivers the State of the State address, and Speaker Robin Vos responds. And finally, can law enforcement drive people in need of services across county lines and leave them in another city? It’s “Here & Now” for January 24.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
President Donald Trump and his administration have moved fast, signing a flurry of executive orders starting day one. They include everything from a tough clampdown on immigration, energy policy, DEI and the federal workforce. Attorneys general from 22 states, including Wisconsin, sued to block Trump’s executive order that moves to end a century old immigration policy known as birthright citizenship, guaranteeing that U.S.-born children are citizens regardless of their parents’ status. Late this week, a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order to block the president’s move nationwide. Wisconsin Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson is here on this the first week of the Trump presidency and senator, thanks very much for being here.

Ron Johnson:
Hello Frederica, thanks for having me on.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what is your overall reaction to week one of President Trump and his administration?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I’m happy to see him move fast, honoring the promises he made during the campaign. You know, from my standpoint, I’m focusing on reducing spending to some reasonable pre-pandemic level. It’s gotten completely out of hand in 2014, we — or 2019, we spent $4.4 trillion. Then we had the pandemic, spent almost 6.6. It’s unsustainable. It’s really absurd. And we need to return to some, some level of pre-pandemic spending and that’s really what I’m working on right now.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s your reaction to President Trump’s pardon of January 6th defendants, including 11 people from Wisconsin?

Ron Johnson:
Well, first of all, I think there was a grotesque miscarriage of justice throughout the Biden administration, really a lawless administration. But as it relates to January 6th, I think so many of these people were, were, were persecuted, weren’t offered speedy trials. So there was — there were many harms that need to be rectified there. Personally, I probably would have done it in different stages, been a little more selective, but I think in the end, President Trump apparently just decided pardon them all. I truthfully don’t have, you know, any problem with that. I don’t think anybody is really a true danger to society.

Frederica Freyberg:
How do those pardons though square with respect for police, many of whom were beaten or tased or repelled with pepper or bear spray?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I think most of those people engaged in acts of violence did serve jail time. You take a look at — again, you just need to compare the jail time they spent versus, for example, the jail time murderers and rapists spend in New York. So again, I think you have to weigh it all. I think President Trump, you know, I would have been a little more selective, done it in different batches. But he decided just to pardon them all. And honestly, I don’t have much problem with it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Just one more question on this. And that is just this week you introduced a bill called the Thin Blue Line Act that would increase penalties for targeting law enforcement. How do the pardons and that introduction of that bill square?

Ron Johnson:
Again, the miscarriage of justice in terms of the January 6th defendants, I think, had to be rectified. And that’s what President Trump did.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s your response to former President Biden’s preemptive pardons for January 6th committee members, members of his family and Anthony Fauci?

Ron Johnson:
I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for a president to potentially direct members of his administration to commit crimes with the guarantee of a pardon afterwards. I think it’s a very dangerous precedent. It’s a double-edged sword for those that are going to obtain those pardons, though, because now they have no Fifth Amendment protections. If we decide to call them in front of Congress to testify, they have to testify fully and truthfully.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you expect to do that?

Ron Johnson:
Some of them, I think, almost certainly.

Frederica Freyberg:
Like who?

Ron Johnson:
We’ll see how — we’ll see what documentation we get and who, who we have justification for, for calling in to testify.

Frederica Freyberg:
On immigration, how do you expect President Trump’s orders to play out? What will we see at the border in our cities and on our farms?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I think you’ll see a secure border. I think you’ll see an immediate return to the Remain in Mexico policy. You’ll, you’ll see deportations, deportations, you know, focusing primarily on criminals and people who are a real danger to society. And that’s, that’s what President Trump ran on. It’s what a large majority of the American public supports. And he’s moving swiftly to honor that promise as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you think that the president’s call to end birthright citizenship will survive legal challenges, as it’s written into the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?

Ron Johnson:
I certainly support his attempt to get this adjudicated. I think it’s, you know, quite honestly, an absurd policy. We’re one of very, very few nations that allow that. I think it had it’s, you know, justification at one point in time. And I understand why, why the 14th Amendment was passed but it really should not be applying to the current circumstance right now. And I think it really incentivizes people. I mean, there’s a birthing tourism. There’s all kinds of abuses as a result of that. I think we need to end that.

Frederica Freyberg:
What do you say to insulin-dependent people who may now see their costs rise above the $35 a month cap with a Trump order rescinding a Biden order on lowering prescription drug costs?

Ron Johnson:
I don’t think that will happen.

Frederica Freyberg:
The fact that drug costs would go up as a result?

Ron Johnson:
I think people should be — I think people will still be able to obtain insulin at those types of prices.

Frederica Freyberg:
And so what do you think about the rescinding of the order that was designed to lower prescription drug costs?

Ron Johnson:
Again, I don’t really like government price controls on things. So let me see how this thing plays out. I mean, these are — drug pricing is a highly complex issue. When government involves itself in the marketplace, it generally screws it up. One of the problems we have right now with our health care system is we have a completely broken health care financing system, largely driven by government’s intervention into it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Will you vote to confirm Pete Hegseth and RFK, Jr. And if so, why?

Ron Johnson:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
Why?

Ron Johnson:
Because the president won a very convincing victory. You know, elections matter. I think the president gets to decide who he wants serving alongside him in his administration. And, you know, barring some disqualifying factor, which I don’t see in any of his nominees so far, I’m going to vote to confirm.

Frederica Freyberg:
In your mind, what other kind of out-of-the-chutes actions on the part of President Trump stand out as most important to you?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I do appreciate the fact that he’s now defining for America, for government policy that, you know, there are two genders, you know, men and women. He’s moving to protect women from having to compete against male athletes, from having biological males invade their, their locker rooms and other private spaces, their bathrooms. So, you know, I certainly appreciate that. That’s something that I think is also very popular. That’s what the American people support. But again, across the board, securing our border, that’s incredibly important. Tapping in and using our God-given energy resources, extremely important from the standpoint of national security as well as keeping costs down. So across the board, what President Trump is doing, we’ll see the effect of this. You know, what we’re going to have to do in terms of legislation to codify these things. But I’m very pleased with how quickly President Trump is honoring the promises he made during the campaign.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Senator Ron Johnson, thanks very much.

Ron Johnson:
Have a great day.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the other side of the aisle, Wisconsin Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore, who represents Milwaukee, joins us for her take of the quick action on the part of President Trump and Congresswoman Moore, thanks very much for being here.

Gwen Moore:
Thank you for having me, Frederica. Happy new year.

Frederica Freyberg:
You, too. How do you regard the newly installed Trump administration?

Gwen Moore:
Well, I’ll tell you, there really aren’t any great surprises. He sort of campaigned on this, on these themes. A lot of people said, “Oh, he wouldn’t do that. Oh, he’s just exaggerating.” But he is really focusing in on some of the things that he promised, like sort of trying to suspend birthright citizenship, which, of course, is a constitutional provision, which has already brought, you know, I think 22 states to the table with regard to litigating that, including our own attorney general, Josh Kaul, in Wisconsin. He said that he would put tariffs on our neighbors to the north and south. You know, usurping the U.S. treaty with Canada and Mexico, which, of course, he executed. And, of course, that will be very disruptive, particularly to our farm community. And I think that it’s going to create a lot of chaos and hopefully the very narrow margins that are in the, in the House and in the Senate will force Congress to bring some cooler heads to the table.

Frederica Freyberg:
So, as you said, the president is making good on his campaign promises. What’s your reaction to his pardons of the January 6th defendants, including 11 of them from Wisconsin?

Gwen Moore:
I can tell you, Frederica, maybe I’m cowardly, but I’m terrified. One of my staffers said that she went to the cafeteria in this building, and one of the January 6th people were there. And I do know that most of the nonviolent, you know, little old ladies that had handmade signs were not the people who were indicted in jail. The people who were indicted and jailed, I mean, they attacked police officers. They directed people to be violent. They had cachs of — I’m terrified. And my staff, I mean, they were actually in this building. And I’m scared of them. And I do think that we have seen Republicans here, you know, who are very — they’re very, very careful not to criticize Trump. But we have seen them stumbling over their words as they have been stunned by this. I think they thought that there would be a little bit more parsing and this one and that one. But these 1500 commutations and releases are absolutely stunning. And I think that it’s going to be very difficult, you know, to talk about the law enforcement and initiatives in this government when we have let all these lawless people out. We’re going to see some of these, these jokers again and that is very terrifying.

Frederica Freyberg:
As to pardons, what do you think of Joe Biden’s pardons to his own family and members of the January 6th committee?

Gwen Moore:
You know, Trump promised that he would have a, an administration focusing on revenge. And I think he wanted to spare his family that, including the, you know, the January 6th investigators.

Frederica Freyberg:
Back to immigration policy, Donald Trump’s new executive orders effectively shut the border, end asylum and as we’ve discussed, a call to end birthright citizenship. What are your constituents saying to you about this, again, not unexpected news?

Gwen Moore:
Well, you know, one of the things that I think is that, you know, nobody wants violent criminals, you know, in their community. And I think the — to the extent that Trump is focusing on getting violent criminals out, this is something that probably has widespread support. Nobody thought that abuela, who’s been here for 40 years and hasn’t bothered anybody, was going to become one of the victims of this. And so I think that if he is enabled to go further than that, people will be concerned. Like the dreamers, for example. You know, 78, 80% last time I checked of Americans think that the dreamers should have a path to citizenship. After all, these are our children. They speak English. They’ve benefited from having a public education. They’re talented. We don’t have it. We have a worker shortage in this country. And there’s no reason to send our kids back to some country that they don’t even know about. Getting control of the border was one of — was one of the issues he campaigned on. But I do think that our Constitution still provides the ability for people to seek asylum.

Frederica Freyberg:
So we asked Senator Johnson about Donald Trump’s rescinding of Biden’s order on the cost of prescription drugs. And he said he just didn’t think that that would make a big difference. What do you think?

Gwen Moore:
Insulin has been costing people something — is upwards of $500 a month for all of the medication, the paraphernalia that goes around it. You know, this is, this $35 a month cap has been a relief to Americans in all sectors of our society. And I think that there will be consequences if this is rescinded.

Frederica Freyberg:
So from your perspective, what will the next four years look like and what can those in opposition of, of many of these things, like yourself, do about it?

Gwen Moore:
Well, we’re not talking about four years. We’re really talking about two years. I think that if the Republican Party overreaches on some of these items, like, for example, trying to get rid of the premiums, the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare premiums, like they tried to destroy the ACA and you had John McCain doing his thumbs down. It is so popular and so important that if they try to overreach on items like that, in two years, it will subject them, I think, to losing the House of Representatives for sure. And maybe even flipping the Senate.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Congresswoman Gwen Moore, thanks very much for your time.

Gwen Moore:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
As to the executive order stating only male and female sexes will be recognized by the federal government, the policy attempts to limit people from self-identifying as a gender different from the sex they were assigned at birth. Advocates for LGBTQ rights say this order will be challenged.

Abigail Swetz:
This is an attempt by a man who does not understand trans identity to erase an entire population of people, and we know that our trans and non-binary friends and neighbors have always been here and will always be here. And an executive order is not going to change that. … We convened as a, as national and state equality leaders to look at those lessons learned. What can we learn from the states where there are anti-trans laws on the books about how to care for and protect how we can our trans community and flipside, what can we learn from the states where there are already protections about how to strengthen our own protections in our state, how to make those more robust at the state level or if needed, at the more municipal local, county, city, school board level.

Frederica Freyberg:
In his seventh State of the State address, Democratic Governor Tony Evers laid out his priorities for the coming year. He declared 2025 the “Year of the Kid,” promising again increased funding for K-12 education, childcare, firearms restrictions, and mental health services.

Tony Evers:
Thirty-seven days ago, a shooting at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison took the lives of Erin and Rubi, a student and an educator who woke up and went to school that morning, will never return home. Six others were injured and countless lives will never be the same. Folks, Wisconsinites, Wisconsinites sent us here to see big problems and fix them. We cannot let common sense get lost in debates over whether basic policies could have prevented the most recent shooting, or the one before that, or the one before that. … My budget proposal will invest nearly $300 million to provide comprehensive mental health services in schools statewide, including support for peer-to-peer suicide prevention programs and expanded mental health training.

Frederica Freyberg:
As is custom, Republicans gave their response to the address. In it, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos spoke to core GOP issues like taxes and immigration, but he also made his own appeal about K-12 education.

Robin Vos:
While we heard tonight about another education plan to write a blank check to our schools, Republicans will focus on increasing standards and demanding accountability. Right now, only 48% of students in Wisconsin are even reading at grade level. This is absolutely unacceptable and it has to change. Our reading crisis is not just limited to our biggest school districts, however, it exists in districts all across the state, both large and small. … Republicans will enact legislation to require the Forward exam to be aligned with the National Assessment of Educational Progress. This will bring our standards back to the baseline before DPI artificially inflated them. It will also allow parents to compare the past with the present. Recently, Governor Evers even said in a statement, “We need to have as high of standards as possible.” He’s right. Hopefully this will be a place where the Legislature and Governor Evers can actually find common ground to come together with a solution to this growing failure in K-12 education.

Frederica Freyberg:
Turning to homelessness, for thousands of people in the state without stable housing, knowing where to turn for help can be a big question mark. Oftentimes, local law enforcement respond to calls involving someone needing help. Perhaps a bed, medical attention, or any number of other services. Recently, the City of Eau Claire has raised concerns about law enforcement in nearby counties, whereby they “drop off unhoused individuals in neighboring communities without a receiving facility, without probable cause and we believe without lawful authority.” Eau Claire city attorney Stephen Nick wrote that in a letter to the state seeking guidance on this practice. He joins us now and thanks very much for being here.

Stephen Nick:
Thank you for covering this important issue.

Frederica Freyberg:
So is it your sense that the city of Eau Claire has become a “dumping ground” as law enforcement from another county described it?

Stephen Nick:
Well, we think it’s an area of concern, both with the city and the county, that this is a dangerous and detrimental practice. We know that the issue of homelessness is an important one. Most specifically for those individuals experiencing lack of shelter and care, and that this is not a best practice and that there are better options and that we are asking the attorney general to provide advice and counsel and direction to statewide law enforcement, since we know it’s an issue not only in Eau Claire, but around the state.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what exactly is happening and to whom?

Stephen Nick:
Individuals that are unhoused are being transported from other cities but in our region, from other counties, left in Kwik Trip parking lots or on sidewalks, and in all the instances that we raised, were never connected with care.

Frederica Freyberg:
Why are they doing that to your knowledge?

Stephen Nick:
Well, why, why they’re doing that, I guess, would be, you know, a question for them. I think we need to be clear that this is not a good option to drop somebody off who is not familiar with Eau Claire, you know, or whatever that new community might be, and not connecting them with care. And so if there aren’t sufficient options within a county or a city that we be clear that this isn’t a good option so better options are developed locally and regionally.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because what should those other jurisdictions do if there are not, in fact, other options where they are?

Stephen Nick:
Right, it is often difficult, but there are county facilities. There’s Department of Human Services that law enforcement is very familiar with working. We have those same sort of co-response. So you have the ability to connect with human services. A lot of times, it’s mental health or AODA services. There are short term shelters, whether those are hotel facilities or nonprofit facilities in many communities and there probably need to be more.

Frederica Freyberg:
How have you seen the homeless population grow in your area?

Stephen Nick:
It is growing, and I’m not an expert in that area, but it is growing, I think, you know, nationwide. It is certainly growing regionally. There was a point-in-time survey that was conducted just last evening in the, you know, the broader region. It didn’t include just city of Eau Claire, but actually a several county area and numbers were up considerably. I believe numbers cited were about twice as high as last year. The one emergency shelter facility we have in Eau Claire, while it was recently expanded, still has capacity typically for 53 individuals. Last evening, with the cold temperatures, they, you know, short-term exceeded that and had, you know, somewhere in the 80 or more individuals there. But that capacity is full. And so when other jurisdictions bring individuals in, in these examples [they] were cited because two of those individuals were, you know, out overnight. They did not connect with the emergency shelter and eventually had to receive medical care and treatment.

Frederica Freyberg:
So, as you mentioned, you have asked Attorney General Kaul for legal guidance on this practice. What exactly would you like his opinion on here?

Stephen Nick:
So one, there’s the legal point of whether there’s authority to do this. And we want law enforcement and we think all law enforcement, including in these instances, are positive, you know, good actors trying to do the best in difficult situations. So let’s clarify that point. So if it’s clear that it’s not permissible, better lawful options that protect the individual rights and liberties of those being transported are pursued. Second would be policy guidance. So our attorney general also has a law enforcement role and advises, informs, teaches law enforcement on best practices. And so we ask that the attorney general and his office take steps to assist law enforcement in finding better options. I know it is an issue around the state and colleagues, my fellow city attorneys, corporation counsel have reached out to express shared experiences and support, and so I hope that that those voices are raised in other portions of the community, because it most certainly is an issue and in the Madison area and the Milwaukee area and Fox Valley, Wausau, Stevens Point, La Crosse, all are having these same types of challenges.

Frederica Freyberg:
Well, Stephen Nick, Eau Claire city attorney, thank you very much.

Stephen Nick:
Appreciate it. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSWisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin