Here & Now

US Sen. Ron Johnson on the US-Iran War and its Future

Frederica Freyberg:
There is a new ten-day ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, and we’re into week two of a ceasefire with Iran and new today, Iran announces the Strait of Hormuz is open. The temporary detente in the war with Iran comes in the midst of a buildup of U.S. forces having steamed into the region. Last week, we interviewed Democratic U.S. 2nd District Representative Mark Pocan, who called the U.S.-Israel war with Iran chaos piled on top of chaos. Tonight, we turn to Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson. And Senator, thanks very much for being here.

Ron Johnson:
Hello Frederica, thanks for having me on.

Frederica Freyberg:
So it seems to be welcome news that Iran has declared the Strait of Hormuz open. But what about Representative Pocan’s comment that this war is chaos on top of chaos? Are you satisfied with the war planning that went into this and the move since?

Ron Johnson:
Last weekend I was on one of the Sunday morning shows and the host started the interview by saying that I was supportive of the war in Iran, and I pushed back immediately by saying, no, I am absolutely opposed to the war the Iranian ayatollahs declared on America 47 years ago. The fact that they have hundreds, probably thousands of Americans’ blood on their hands and obviously tens of thousands of their own citizens’ blood on their hands. So what I’m supportive of is ending that war once and for all. Ending the threat, ending the menace, and ending the — there — any possibility that they could obtain a nuclear weapon which could be existential to America. So yeah, it is war. Messy. Is it chaotic? Sure. You know, I don’t like war, but we had to act before we weren’t able to act. Before they became a nuclear power, before they had so many missiles and so many drones that taking this action would have devastated the region. It’s been destructive enough. But again, so I support President Trump’s very difficult decision. This is good news. I think, you know, we have dramatically degraded Iran’s capability to be a state sponsor of terror, to develop a nuclear weapon, to hold the Strait of Hormuz hostage. And I think this latest blockade is certainly showing or proving its worth in bringing Iran finally to the negotiating table and forcing to — force them into what should be as close to, you know, unilateral disarmament and just, you know, unconditional surrender as possible.

Frederica Freyberg:
And so you think it’s a diplomatic course at this point, not a bombing course, to “finish the job,” as you’ve said you want to do.

Ron Johnson:
Yeah. When President Trump met with the families of the fallen at Dover, the dignified return, he reported in his speech that the family is almost to a person said, “Okay, we’ve sacrificed. Now finish the job.” And I think it’d be, you know, not good if we left a regime in place, continue to be dedicated to enrich uranium, not give up those uranium stockpiles, continue to build up their missile and drone stockpiles, to continue to threaten the region and threaten world peace. So I want to finish the job. We have obviously decimated their leadership. We’ve decimated their missiles, their drones, their nuclear program. But we haven’t finished the job. We need to do that.

Frederica Freyberg:
You took exception last week to the president threatening to wipe out an entire civilization in Iran. It was a newsworthy rebuke from a high-ranking Republican. What did you think when you saw that threat?

Ron Johnson:
I guess I wouldn’t call it a rebuke. I was asked a question. I gave an honest answer. We’re not at war with the Iranian people. In fact, we are trying to do everything we can to support them. We want to liberate the Iranian people, not impoverish them. So again, President Trump has a certain negotiating style. I mean, I, for one, am hoping and praying it works. I mean, Frederica, just think of how if all these things are successful, it looks like Venezuela is on the road to success. If we can tame Iran, if we can remove that regime and get more responsible leadership in there who are going to be more interested in governing Iran for the benefit of its people as opposed to their ideology being a state sponsor of terror. I mean, just understand how positively that could reset global politics, the geopolitical situation throughout the world. If Cuba could reclaim — if Cubans could reclaim their liberty, their freedom. I mean, these are, you know, Iran should be incredibly successful and prosperous nation, as should Venezuela, as should Cuba. And it’s only — it’s only through American leadership that those things can happen.

Frederica Freyberg:
As to not being at war with the Iranian people and Iranian UW student that is now there says it very much feels to her like the U.S. is at war with the people. How do you respond to that?

Ron Johnson:
That’s one person’s opinion. Again, we’re not doing polls. I mean, they’ve obviously canceled the internet, so we don’t know exactly what’s happening inside Iran. I think one of the reasons the Iranian regime is so brutal to its people, I mean, they executed 30 to 40,000 of their own citizens in a couple of days. Okay. My guess is a large majority of Iranians would like to see the ayatollahs gone on the dustbin of history. The sooner the better. Again, I don’t — there are certainly people within Iran who support the mullahs and the ayatollahs, but I just have to believe when you take a look at the long history of Iran, the Persian people and stuff, I mean, this has been a prosperous land. The ayatollahs have just devastated what could be incredibly prosperous and freedom loving type of country.

Frederica Freyberg:
How, in your mind, can ordinary Iranian citizens like that UW student of whom we spoke rise up and take over the regime?

Ron Johnson:
Well, it’s very difficult. I pointed this out in the past. You know, for those who just want to keep pushing nationwide gun control and those who want to disarm America, this is what it looks like when a population disarmed, when the only people that have bullets and rifles and weapons are a brutal regime. It leads to tyranny. And we had some pretty interesting testimony in the Senate this past week. Congressman Thomas Massie went through the list of regime after regime after regime, brutal dictatorial regimes leading to the deaths of millions of their citizens. The first action was always disarming the population. So it’s difficult. I think we’ve certainly weakened the regime. It’s as weak as it’s ever been in its 47 years. We may have to do some assistance. We may have to provide some — I’ll call it assistance to the Iranian people so they can finally topple that regime.

Frederica Freyberg:
Senator Ron Johnson, we leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us again.

Ron Johnson:
Have a good day.