Here & Now

U.S. Rep. Ron Kind on his Impeachment Vote

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at the latest on the expected impeachment of President Donald Trump. Today, the House Judiciary Committee voted along party lines to forward two Articles of Impeachment for a full vote. The first charges him with abuse of power, the second with obstruction of Congress. There is something Congress agrees on across the partisan divide and that is the new NAFTA, the U.S./Mexico/Canada Agreement. The trade deal could get a thumbs-up vote from the U.S. House of Representatives in coming days. Wisconsin dairy farmers are hoping for swift passage of the USMCA. Wisconsin 3rd District U.S. Representative Democrat Ron Kind of La Crosse is a member of the House Ways and Means Committee Subcommittee on Trade and rolled up his sleeves to get this pact up to snuff for Democrats. He joins us now from La Crosse and Congressman, thanks very much for doing so.

Ron Kind:

Merry Christmas, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you. First, your reaction and response to the two Articles of Impeachment House Democrats are lodging against President Trump.

Ron Kind:

Well, Fred, we knew these were very serious allegations. And as a former special prosecutor, I wanted this to be fact and evidence-based. But I also was born here in this country believing no person is above the law, including the president of the United States, and the allegations are serious, that he was withholding $400 million worth of military aid to one of our allies who had been invaded by Russia, Ukraine, in order to get them to do a political investigation for his own benefit in the 2020 campaign. He was also withholding White House phone conversations and a White House meeting with the newly-elected president. It’s illegal to solicit foreign countries’ help for your own benefit in an election. It’s also, I think, an unconstitutional abuse of power. But here’s the point. We’ve been asking this president and his administration if they had any other evidence, any other facts that could show that they’re innocent in these allegations to come forward. But instead of doing that, they’ve done just the opposite. They blocked people from testifying. They blocked records and documents from being turned over based on valid subpoena requests. And that’s been unfortunate. And now we’re moving forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

How will you vote when it comes to the floor next week?

Ron Kind:

Well, the president still has a few days to offer any information to show that he is not guilty of these allegations, that he wasn’t withholding $400 million worth of military aid to get a foreign government to mettle in our election process. He still has time to submit that. He has time to present that during a Senate trial too if it comes to that point and we’re asking him to participate and offer information that might show his innocence in this matter. But, again, they’ve been stonewalling. They’ve been blocking. They’ve been obstructing, I think, a legitimate request by Congress to get to the bottom of all this.

Frederica Freyberg:

So are you saying that you are as yet undecided as to how you will vote?

Ron Kind:

Well unless the circumstances change, this looks pretty problematic for the president. They’ve offered nothing to refute the multitude of witnesses who have come forward, honoring a valid Congressional subpoena, and corroborating the whistle-blower report that came out of the White House. Now I want to remind people that Democrats didn’t initiate this. This was based on a nonpartisan career intelligence officer working in the White House, working for this president, who saw him abusing this power and therefore filed a whistle-blower report. That, by law, had to be turned over to Congress and we had to look into it. They’ve had a lot of opportunity to refute the allegations behind these Articles of Impeachment but he has chosen not to do that and instead create political warfare in our country over it.

Frederica Freyberg:

The latest Wisconsin polling continues to show more people here oppose impeaching and removing the president than support it, by a 12-point margin this week. How much pause does that give you in your district that swung for Donald Trump in 2016 as to how you vote?

Ron Kind:

Let me say this. I’m the only member of Congress in the history of our country that did support two impeachment inquiries, one against President Clinton and now one with President Trump because I do take my Article One Constitutional responsibility seriously. Congress is the only institution in our democracy that can stand up to the executive branch, the president, and hold him accountable to the rule of law. There’s no other entity that can do that. And we have to choose at the end of the day do we want to live in that democracy or do we want a monarchy? Do we want to elect people who are above the reach of the rule of law in our country? And to me, that is what this is all coming down to. It’s what type of democracy do we want at the end of the day?

Frederica Freyberg:

One more time, how will you vote?

Ron Kind:

Well again, unless the president comes forward with facts that would change the evidence that’s before us right now, I think we as an institution, Congress, has to hold him accountable to the unconstitutional abuse of power, the unlawful activities in trying to solicit a foreign government to mettle in our election. It’s not just about Donald Trump. It’s about future presidents too and what type of signal we send that’s acceptable in our democracy. And it may be a Democratic president the next time trying to abuse that office.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s move to trade. I don’t have to tell you there is a deal between the administration and Democrats on the USMCA. Donald Trump campaigned on ripping up NAFTA. Is this then a win/win?

Ron Kind:

I think it is. This is a good trade agreement. Obviously, I was involved intimately in the negotiations. It was hard negotiations the last few months. But I think we got a good trade agreement with our two border neighbors and that’s important. Mexico, Canada are our two biggest export markets. What this will mean for Wisconsin farmers, we’re going to get greater dairy access to the Canadian market, something we’ve been working on for years. We tightened up sanitary and phytosanitary standards so Mexico, Canada can’t block our agriculture products like they have in the past. I think we have a strong worker rights chapter in it, unprecedented, and elevated environmental standards to try to level the playing field for our workers, businesses and farmers so they can compete. Perhaps most importantly Frederica, a strong enforcement chapter now so if Canada and Mexico chooses not to abide, we’ll have the ability to follow up and perhaps hit them with sanctions for any violations of this agreement. And that was important because you could have a great trade agreement on paper but unless you can enforce it, it’s meaningless. I’m expecting strong bipartisan support. We’re hoping to bring this up next week in Congress and then send it to the Senate for their consideration.

Frederica Freyberg:

What will it mean specifically for state dairy farmers?

Ron Kind:

Well, they’re going to have greater class seven access in Canada right now. Canada was blocking the ultra-filtered milk up there. There will be a slight improvement for that and I think that was important to level the playing field there. But also the SPS standards I talked about is important. So that it has to be based on sound science and not some arbitrary blocking of our exports.

Frederica Freyberg:

How will any benefits be felt by Wisconsin farmers a year from now?

Ron Kind:

Hopefully through increased exports we can clear some of the surplus that exists in the marketplace that’s driving prices down. Listen, Mexico, Canada alone can’t solve the farm crisis that we’re facing. The president has declared a trade war against virtually everyone across the globe. That means we’re losing market access with agriculture, with manufactured products. That ultimately needs to be resolved, too. I’m in constant communication with the president’s trade team to find a landing zone for this tit-for-tat trade war with China, with the European Union, with other countries across the globe that’s hurting our farmers, hurting our manufacturers, but also driving up prices for us consumers. Because tariffs are taxes on the American people. But for some reason, the president can’t figure that out. And it’s increasing our costs when we have to purchase something.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Congressman Ron Kind, we’ll be looking forward to your vote next week. Thanks very much.

Ron Kind:

Thank you. Happy holidays.

Frederica Freyberg:

You too.