Frederica Freyberg:

We move to the other side of the aisle now. Republican U.S. Representative Glenn Grothman did not vote to reject the electors. He joins us from Fond du Lac. Thanks for being here.

Glenn Grothman:

Glad to be on the show as always and glad to be back in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

I imagine. So as to the deadly violence at the U.S. Capitol, in a statement you condemned the rioters and put blame on Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump Jr. for encouraging the behavior of those insurrectionists. What about the President himself? What blame do you give him?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, I haven’t heard his statements, you know. First of all, when the kind of insurrection, whatever we call it, took place, I was in my office. So I followed things on TV rather than live. And on TV, they kept repeating Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump Jr.’s statements. So that’s why they were included in my press release.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the rally before that? What about the rally that the President fronted before they marched down Pennsylvania Avenue?

Glenn Grothman:

Right. I’m not sure what he said. I will say this. I think there were irresponsible people who described this day as being more than it would be. Normally this is a very perfunctory vote to approve the Electoral College. It’s something you barely remembered when it was done when Donald Trump was sworn in. And I think led by some – I’ll call them irresponsible congressmen – the public was allowed to believe that this was going to be a much more significant vote than it was. And that’s why you had tens of thousands of people there, many of them very wonderful people from Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Many of those people wonderful people is what you’re saying now?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, there were tens of thousands of people west of the Capitol that you didn’t see on TV. And a lot of those people are very nice people. They were typical people that you’d see at any rally and I don’t think a lot of people were aware that they were around here as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to ask your reaction to efforts to remove the President before his term ends in 12 days.

Glenn Grothman:

I think it’s a silly media circus. He’s going to end in 12 days. Why you would try to rush something through in the final 12 days and have Mike be President for one or two days seems kinda silly to me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you believe, as others do, that the President after this riot at the Capitol represents a national security risk in his remaining days?

Glenn Grothman:

No, I don’t think so. He’s said he’s going to go along with the transition. I expect the next 12 days to be as boring as the last 12 days of Barack Obama’s presidency.

Frederica Freyberg:

You say now that the U.S. Constitution is very clear that states determine their own electors, calling votes to reject results in Congress this week, you said both absurd and dangerous. But you also say that you almost did that yourself. What stopped you in the 11th hour? Was it a political calculation? What stopped you?

Glenn Grothman:

No. I think actually politically it might have been easier to vote the other way. I’m sure it would have been easier to vote the other way. Like I said, it was a very close decision, and I think the people who made the point of the importance of the Electoral College, the bad precedent you’re setting for the future is the reason why I decided to uphold the Electoral College. The other reason would be there are a lot of people who felt this election was — there was cheating going on and I think they need a voice as well and I sympathize with the congressmen who voted the other way.

Frederica Freyberg:

You describe it as a very close call for yourself and yet on the other hand, you talk about this being dangerous and absurd. But I just want to move on. You think that we do need to investigate election fraud, because, you say, Trump supporters believe the election was stolen. But hasn’t this been kind of asked and answered in the courts? There is no evidence for election-tipping fraud. Can’t you just tell your Trump supporters that?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, let’s go through things that are incontrovertible. Here in Wisconsin we had over 200,000, I believe, voters who claimed to be indefinitely confined who probably weren’t. We put up with that all the time, but I think that’s — people want to hear a little bit more about that. In other states, we had a judge in Arizona, where they don’t have same-day registration, extend the time to vote, which eventually was undone by the 9th Circuit. Now, I have a feeling that President Biden’s supporters will even like what comes out of there because people will realize that not that many new people voted. But nevertheless, it’s the type of thing that concerns people.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, it may concern people but you know as well as others, that the judges in these cases across the country and here in Wisconsin, many of them Trump judges, so-called, ruled there was no evidence to move these cases forward.

Glenn Grothman:

Well, let’s take the example in Arizona.

Frederica Freyberg:

You know what, sir? Actually, actually, I’m out of time and I’m sorry. I’m sorry to cut you off.

Glenn Grothman:

I’m sorry.

Frederica Freyberg:

With the Arizona example. But we look forward to talking with you again.

Glenn Grothman:

Absolutely. Okay. Very good.