Frederica Freyberg:

This week, former governor Tommy Thompson steps down as UW System president. When he accepted the position in July 2020, Thompson said he did so knowing two things: that he was needed, and that it would be temporary. I sat down with Tommy Thompson this week to get his take on the state of the UW System and his own political future. We should note, PBS Wisconsin is part of the UW. So as you leave your service as president of the UW System, what would you say has been your most significant contribution?

Tommy Thompson:

I think opening up the university. When I came in, Frederica, in July of 2020, you know, the university was in financial trouble. A lot of campuses were in real financial trouble. They didn’t know if they were going to be able to open up in fall, and they didn’t know how to open up. I came in, had a two-hour meeting with the chancellors and at the end of the two-hour meeting, I asked them what their decision was. Their decision was they wanted another meeting. I said, “No. I’m making a decision. We’re opening up September 3rd.” About one-third were with me, one-third was opposed, one-third was — didn’t — mach nicht. So we opened it up and then I knew I had to make sure that it was safe. And in order to be safe, we had to wear masks, and had to inculcate a cultural responsibility with the students. The students were fantastic. The faculty was fantastic. So we opened up, and then we decided we needed a testing program. Testing program was one of the best if not the best in the country, and the federal government got wind of it and they came out here and they asked if I could expand it into the community. So I said sure, if you give us the money. They gave us up to $50 million to set it up. So we became the problem solvers. And then we opened up and then we had a shortage of nurses, and I asked the nursing deans if we could use their students to help test and help vaccinate, and they jumped at it, you know, tremendous support. And so we got these young nurses that are students go out and help do the vaccination and the testing and the enrolling of people. It was fantastic. It was a partnership from students all the way up through the faculty up through the central administration here in Van Hise. It was wonderful. And that was a great accomplishment.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the midst of some of that, you stood up to Republican lawmakers who wanted to have you get their permission to implement some of these COVID policies. Why did you stand up that way?

Tommy Thompson:

Well, because I had to. I mean, my job was to open the university and keep it open. If I had to go and get permission from the legislature to do it, I couldn’t move fast enough. Secondly, they wanted me to not have a masking policy. If I didn’t have a masking policy, the professors were not going to teach. The professors don’t teach, I don’t have classes, I don’t have the universities open. So I had to make sure that I kept the university open. I had to stand up to the legislature and tell them, please, understand, we’re running this university. We’re going to run it and we’re going to keep it open. That’s my pledge, and that’s what I did. And in order for me to accomplish that, I couldn’t go by and start passing rules that they could suspend, because I knew if they did the suspension on the masking, professors wouldn’t have taught and we would not have had the universities open. So it was a simple decision for me. I stood up, got some criticism, but I got also a lot of support.

Frederica Freyberg:

In your mind, how has the legislature and its budget-writers treated the UW?

Tommy Thompson:

Not as good as they should. And I had to tell them, you know, you’ve got to support the university, because that’s where the solutions to our problems are. When you got a shortage of nurses, shortage of engineers, shortage of teachers, which we have in this state, who’s going to turn them out? It’s the university. So give us the dollars necessary to do it. They were not good for us in the budget, but this part of the session, the second part, in January, they’ve been very good to us. Very cooperative, very supportive. And I think that trend is going to come and I think I helped foster that trend.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your forecast for the health of the UW System, given enrollment and budget?

Tommy Thompson:

Enrollment is a big problem. And it’s not only the fact that our population has not grown as rapidly. I think we’re 27th in the country, but it’s also the fact that parents aren’t having as many children, therefore, we’re not graduating as many. And the bigger problem, Frederica, is this, that when you and I, when I went and you, about 35% of the students were going on to college. 33 to 35%. That’s fallen down to 27%. And that’s on its way to 25%. So you’ve got a declining population, a percentage decline of those students that are going on to school, and all this indicates to me, we have a huge enrollment problem staring us right in the face. So we’ve got to do a much better job of getting first-generation families, more diversity in our campuses, and more students, and we’ve got to do some more speaking about why the university is so important. You know, you went to the university. All your camera people went to the university. We’ve got to get that back to the young people. University education is extremely important. And if we’re going to solve the problems of Wisconsin, we need a strong university system, and we are the problem solvers for the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your advice to the incoming president?

Tommy Thompson:

I am telling him to be strong, be forceful, and do not be afraid to get out and brag about this university, and all of his speeches, wherever they may be and however big or small the audience is, talk about the importance of a university degree. I do that all over. It’s important for people to realize that this is an investment in your sons’ and daughters’ future, and it’s an investment by the state of Wisconsin to solve the problems and make Wisconsin stronger. We are the economic engine and we’ve got to say that. Here are the problems. It’s not only enrollment. It’s the fact we have too many buildings. We need to have a blue-ribbon task force, which is not going to come until after the election. We’ve got to do a better job of advertising our university system, especially in distance learning. We’re way behind the Purdues and the western governors and Arizona State and the University of Southern New Hampshire. University of Southern New Hampshire is spending $100 million on publicity, a lot of it in Wisconsin, taking our students out there. These are problems that we’ve got to solve.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to ask you whether or not you do, in fact, want to get back in the game, and run for governor.

Tommy Thompson:

That’s going to be in April. I’ll make that decision and I’m going to look at it, Frederica. I’m going to look at — you know, I’m going to wait and see what people want me to do. You know, my family, my friends. There’re some businesses I’m sure are out there that would like to have me either on their board or in some sort of a consultant capacity. I’m waiting to see what’s available, and what I should do. I’ve never taken the time, Frederica, in all my life, you know, what’s good for tommy, what should he do, and really think about it. I’ve always jumped into something before I really thought it through, and I’m going to spend the month of April skiing, going to Florida, and talking to people like you that have been friends of mine for a long time as to what they think I should do.

Frederica Freyberg:

What draws you toward that, though? What draws you toward more service?

Tommy Thompson:

Public service. 50 years. I was state legislator for 20 years. I was governor for over 14 years. I was in the cabinet for four years. And I was — excuse me. I was president here, the eighth president of the university for almost two years. That’s a long time. And over 40-some years, I’ve been in the public arena. It’s hard to change. It’s hard to say, you know, I don’t get up in the morning and read the newspapers, hear the news, and listen to you on television and so on. I’m — I love to serve. I’m an individual that believes in civic service and everything I’ve done is, how do I make Wisconsin, make Wisconsin better? How do I make it stronger? How do I make this university, you know, respond to the needs of the young students? That’s why we have these universities for, for our students. How do we build that? You know, that’s a clock inside of me that goes off every hour, as to how do I serve and make things better. I hate the status quo. I’ve always been one of those individuals, if you believe in the status quo, you go backwards. And I want to move forward. I’m always looking forward. How do I advance Wisconsin? How do I make Wisconsin better? How did I make the Health and Human Services Department better when I was there? And if I don’t leave it better at the end, when I leave, I have really wasted my time. Every place I’ve gone, I can look back and say, I’ve improved. Whether it was in the legislature, whether it was governor, whether it was secretary, or now as university president. I can look back and, in my mind, in my opinion, I have made it stronger and better, more efficient, and that, to me, drives me, and that’s why — you asked me why? It drives me, something inside of me that I’ve always been attracted to.

Frederica Freyberg:

Tommy Thompson, thanks very much.

Tommy Thompson:

You’re wonderful. Thank you.