Zac Schultz:

Jill Karofsky is a Dane County Circuit Court Judge. Prior to her time on the bench, Judge Karofsky served as the Executive Director of the State Office of Crime Victim Services. She’s also a former State Assistant Attorney General. Jill Karofsky joins us now via Skype. Thanks for your time today.

Jill Karofsky:

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Zac Schultz:

Now let’s start by addressing the COVID-19 pandemic and the statewide emergency called by Governor Tony Evers. This week the governor issued a “safer at home” order that prohibits all nonessential travel. The order remains in place until April 24th. What are the legal limits to the governor’s power to issue and enforce these orders and would it be up the courts to determine if an order becomes too oppressive or unreasonable?

Jill Karofsky:

Look, we all need to do everything we can to be safe and to make sure that our neighbors and our family members and those around us are safe. In our campaign, what we have done is gone virtual. We’re having no more in-person events. We are making sure though that we are still getting our message out every way we can, whether it’s on Facebook or Twitter or email or text, doing interviews like this, or radio interviews. As far as me commenting on the governor’s legal authority, I want to be very careful to do that because that is an issue that could get up to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court, and when I win this race, it’s an issue that I would have to weigh in on. And so, I’m going to, with all due respect, not directly answer that question, but I do think that it’s incumbent upon all of us to do what we can to stay safe, which is why I’m appearing by Skype today. I’m here in my kitchen, where I’m telling my kids to wash their hands about every 20 seconds.

Zac Schultz:

So, understanding you don’t want to comment directly on the order, but at what point do you as a member of the court start thinking about these legal issues that could come before you?

Jill Karofsky:

You would start thinking about them when a lawsuit is filed and once it makes its way through the circuit court and through the Court of Appeals and then gets to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court.

Zac Schultz:

But you don’t ponder what may happen now, if you see a legal opinion that’s thrown around on the Internet?

Jill Karofsky:

When I am thinking about COVID-19 right now, Zac, I am thinking about number one: how can I keep my family safe. Number two: my concern right now as a circuit court judge and as the only person in this race right now who is a trial court judge, I am trying to figure out How do I do my job right now? I have been working very, very hard with my colleagues to figure out what our approach needs to be. We’re no longer having jury trials throughout the state, but there are some other hearings that we must have. And so, we are using different apps so that we can still hold hearings so that people are afforded their constitutional rights. And I’m constantly balancing people’s constitutional rights with the safety of our community, and I’m the only person in this race who’s having to do this right now. That’s the kind of experience I’m going to bring to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court.

Zac Schultz:

You mentioned the postponement of all jury trials that’s been done by the Supreme Court. Your opponent agreed with the dissent to that order that said this emergency does not warrant suspending the Sixth Amendment right to a speedy trial. What do you think with the order from the court?

Jill Karofsky:

As far as I have myself, in my branch, we had one case that we moved back two weeks. And I do not believe that that is going to– I was I was comfortable doing that, obviously, and I don’t want to get into details about any case that I have before me because I need to make some important decisions. But we had talked about it with the parties ahead of time that we had saved a date at the end of May, and that’s what we’re doing in our case.

Zac Schultz:

But is this a threat to the 6th Amendment, as your opponent seems to say in his argument to that dissent?

Jill Karofsky:

You know, we have– the– as far as I’m concerned, any decision that I have made in my court, I have made and it is it is constitutional and it will hold up assuming that the Constitution is applied the way that it should be.

Zac Schultz:

Governor Evers has suspended all admissions to state prisons, leaving inmates in county jails. Do you agree with that policy and at what point does the emergency come into conflict with due process in that area?

Jill Karofsky:

Well, we are in Dane County taking it case by case. So, I have– I was assigned over 1,700 cases last year. And in each of those cases we are painstakingly going through and identifying cases where a sentence could be stayed for a short period of time. And in some cases, sentences can’t be stayed, it would be– it would be a danger to the community. It would be a danger to the victims. We are looking at bail conditions. We are looking at every single part of a case to determine the correct response. And again, that is an experience that I’m going to bring to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court that my opponent doesn’t have. Look, this is a guy who has never presided over any case. He was appointed to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court without having one minute of judicial experience. He never had to make the types of decision that I have make– having to make many, many times a day, day in and day out. He was appointed for one reason and one reason only, and it was because his right-wing agenda matched up with the right-wing agenda of Scott Walker.

Zac Schultz:

You mentioned that– You’ve talked about him being appointed to– so carry water for right-wing special interests. He says that you are slandering members of the court that agree with those decisions he’s made. Are your statements slanderous and are you trying to lump in other members of the court that agree with his decisions?

Jill Karofsky:

I am running against one member of the court and one member only. I am running against Dan Kelly. And I am– every first-year law student knows that the defense to slander is the truth. And what I am talking about is the truth. And when you look at his decisions, when every single time he has had the opportunity to rule in favor of the right-wing special interests, he has done it. Every single time he has had the opportunity to make a decision, he’s made decisions, procedural decisions that benefit the right-wing special interests. If you look at the lame duck case where they just took that case, plucked it right from the trial court, without ever having a hearing, without ever knowing what the evidence was, so that he could get to that case and so he could make a decision as fast as he could. If you look at the recusal rule, we have one of the weakest recusal rules in the United States. Our recusal rule was drafted by the Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce and the Realtors Association. That is a recusal rule that Dan Kelly has stood by. He wants to have outside special influence have an impact on these races. He is happy to take their money, and they are more than happy to benefit by his decisions. What we have is a for sale sign on our Supreme Court.

Zac Schultz:

If elect– if elected, how will you work with members of the court that have said you are not fit to serve on the court?

Jill Karofsky:

Look, I agree with the members of the court who say that we need to have a Supreme Court with integrity. People need to have confidence in our Supreme Court. I agree with them. They are absolutely right. The problem is not– the problem is this: the problem is is that Dan Kelly has an agenda. Not that I’m shining a light on the fact that he has an agenda, and if we want to bring integrity back to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court, what we need to do is replace Dan Kelly on April 7th.

Zac Schultz:

Do you think Dan Kelly is qualified and fit to serve on the Supreme Court?

Jill Karofsky:

I think that Dan Kelly was put on the court for one reason and one reason only, and that was to carry the water of the right-wing special interests of corporations, of the wealthy and he has done just that. He has not spilled a drop of their water.

Zac Schultz:

Switching topics slightly. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has extended a commercial court pilot project to Dane County that would allow her to hand-pick judges to preside over business lawsuits. Do you agree with this project and what are the ramifications of it?

Jill Karofsky:

I think that appearances are very, very important and I agree with many of my colleagues on the Dane County bench. When you have a system that appears to be two-tiered. That there is one system of justice for big business, and one system of justice for the rest of us, that really is troubling to many, many people. Look, I preside over many, many criminal cases in a year, and every single victim in every one of those cases would like their case to get, to get to a result faster. Same for defendants. They want these cases to reach a resolution. People need finality. And to say that we’re going to give one group of people finality and a quicker resolution in their cases, rather than another group of people just seems to me to look like we have a system that isn’t fair to everybody.

Zac Schultz:

Now, a number of county municipal clerks from around the state have called for this election to be postponed. They’ve even filed a federal lawsuit. Do you as a candidate agree with the idea of postponing this election?

Jill Karofsky:

What we are encouraging people to do is to vote absentee. People can still get on MyVote.wi.gov. They can register online until the 30th. You can get an absentee ballot until April 2nd. Your ballot has to be received by the municipal clerk’s office and your municipality by April 7th at 8 o’clock. And that’s what we are encouraging people to do.

Zac Schultz:

Do you have an opinion on extending any of those deadlines due to the pandemic?

Jill Karofsky:

Look, we, we are focused on April– as you and I are talking right now and as we are recording this, the election is April 7th and that is what we are focused on today.

Zac Schultz:

Now, your opponent was first appointed to the court. You’re running in a statewide election. Which is the best way to choose members of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, especially considering how ugly some of these races have become in recent years?

Jill Karofsky:

I think it is really important that we have these elections. I have learned so much by traveling all around the state of Wisconsin and listening to people around the state of Wisconsin. And if we want to change these elections, if we want to stop the influence of the outside money that comes into these races, what we need to do is, number one: we need to elect justices who are willing to look at our recusal rule. That is what I am willing to do. Second: we need justices then to change the recusal rule in this state so that when the outside money comes in, if in a campaign, a judge or a justice will not sit on those cases. And that is not what we have– that’s not what we’re seeing today, and Dan Kelly is against that.

Zac Schultz:

But direct elections by the populace is still the best way to fill our Supreme Court?

Jill Karofsky:

I believe so, yes.

Zac Schultz:

Now, you’ve got a few seconds left. Please give me your best summary of why voters should vote for you.

Jill Karofsky:

Voters should vote for me because I have the experience that we need on the Wisconsin State Supreme Court. I’m the only person in this race, as I mentioned, who has been a trial court judge. I see how the law impacts real people every single day. In my courtroom, we follow the rule of law and I treat everyone in my courtroom fairly and equally and respectfully. I’ve also got the Wisconsin values that I’m going to bring to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. And I’m also going to bring my toughness and my independence. And I will urge voters to vote for me. Vote absentee. Vote before April 7th, which is the election date.

Zac Schultz:

All right, Judge Jill Karofsky, thanks for your time today.

Jill Karofsky:

Thank you so much. Stay well.