Frederica Freyberg:

This week Governor Tony Evers signed an executive order directing state law enforcement including the State Patrol, Capitol Police and DNR wardens to review and update their use-of-force policies. And the order specifies that deadly force, including chokeholds, be used only as a last resort. It also calls for officers to employ de-escalation techniques and that they should intervene to stop excessive force by another officer. Following the conviction of Derek Chauvin, the Wisconsin Lieutenant Governor said he hopes the verdict ushers in a new era and that we “all deserve better.” Mandela Barnes joins us now from Madison. Lt. Governor, thanks for being here.

Mandela Barnes:

Thank you so much for having me today.

Frederica Freyberg:

When the verdict came down, you said, “It’s an amazing thing, the idea of justice can be cause for celebration.” What are your concerns that some people will consider the Chauvin conviction a one-and-done and say, see, the system works and just leave it there?

Mandela Barnes:

Yeah. Yeah. I certainly don’t want to look at this as an overall victory. This is accountability in one instance. As we know, justice would be George Floyd still living and breathing today. And I also don’t want people to get complacent and think that the movement has reached its peak. I don’t want people to think that this is the culmination of a yearlong of organizing and demonstrating because it’s absolutely not that. We have to make sure that there are more instances of accountability like this so that we can be on the path to true justice. There are so many communities, so many families and individuals who didn’t even get to see what happened or didn’t even realize the accountability that we saw earlier this week with Derek Chauvin, so many more instances even here in Wisconsin, that we need to make sure that we are truly on the path to achieving justice.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, as we just detailed, the governor signed an executive order directing state law enforcement agencies on use-of-force. How do you regard that directive? Does it go far enough?

Mandela Barnes:

Well, I think that we are doing what we can at the state level. As I’ve said many times before, we need a coordinated approach. We need to make sure that it is local, state and federal government doing the right thing to make sure that policing in our communities is held to a standard, a certain standard, a much higher standard than we see now. At the state level with our law enforcement agencies, the governor is taking the necessary step, a step that he is able to take right now. As we see, the Legislature has decided to not act. The governor introduced a — released a package of legislation last year and it’s still sitting there. They have yet to take it up. And so with a Legislature that chooses to ignore the reality of so many people in our state, so many Americans, the governor is taking that step to make sure that we do exactly what we can do with our law enforcement agencies.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet are things different today? Could there be new momentum?

Mandela Barnes:

Well, absolutely. I think there should be new momentum. I think we should turn the page, like I said, to a new era where we should not have to sit on pins and needles after watching a video of a man killed and wondering which way the verdict is going to go. I think that’s probably one of the most astounding parts about all of this, is we still felt — I don’t mean just we as Black people, I mean we as the people in America still sat with baited breath as the verdict was read aloud not knowing which way it would go regardless of the fact that we saw this video. I think the fact that people are celebrating justice, and this isn’t an indictment of people who are celebrating the fact that there was a guilty verdict, this is an indictment on the system that has denied justice to communities for so long.

Frederica Freyberg:

Given the bipartisan makeup of the Task Force on Racial Disparities, the Speaker’s Task Force, what are your expectations that its recommendations will result in bills that the governor would sign into law?

Mandela Barnes:

I think that speaks a little bit more to, you know, the lackluster, you know, nature of the task force. We presented the Assembly and the Senate, we presented the Legislature with a package of bills. And if they thought there were issues, it should have been debated on the Assembly floor and on the Senate floor. I think that even though there is this Racial Disparities Task Force, the fact is there are members that represent racial and ethnic minority groups in the Legislature. There is a Legislative Black Caucus. I bring this point up all the time because it feels like the leadership of the majority party in the Legislature has chosen to ignore those Black lawmakers who’ve already introduced bills. And even white lawmakers who have introduced bills for police accountability. I think as we’ve said before, this is a delay tactic so they don’t have to do much. Bills did not come out of this task force. Some recommendations did but if they were truly committed to the work, if the speaker really wanted to see this through, there would have been legislation that came as a result of the work of this task force.

Frederica Freyberg:

We’ll see where that goes. Lieutenant governor, thanks very much for joining us.

Mandela Barnes:

Thank you so much for having me.