Frederica Freyberg:

The nation’s first openly gay U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin is working to get ten Republican senators to vote in favor of the Respect for Marriage Act, a bill that would establish the right to same-sex and interracial marriage in federal law. Despite the majority of the public supporting same-sex marriage, including Republicans, the push for passage of the bill enshrining that right could be an uphill climb. Senator Tammy Baldwin joins us now and thank you so much for being here.

Tammy Baldwin:

It is a pleasure to join you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Senator, first, we want to ask you what with Alex Lasry, Tom Nelson and Sarah Godlewski now dropping out of the democratic primary race for U.S. Senate, will you now formally also endorse Mandela Barnes?

Tammy Baldwin:

I will be talking with the remaining candidates, and, certainly, as I’ve always said, I’ll going to be behind the nominee. It appears that will be Mandela Barnes, and I’m very excited about the race ahead.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because what does the thinning of the field say about his candidacy in your mind?

Tammy Baldwin:

Well, I think it’s a strong candidacy. He is certainly running a very good race and getting all around the state, and talking to the Wisconsin voters, but the contrast in the general election could not be more clear. And Mandela Barnes is somebody who’s focused on the people of his district when he used to be in the state legislature, and now all of the people of the state of Wisconsin as lieutenant governor.

Frederica Freyberg:

So as to the Respect for Marriage Act which we invited you on to talk about, why is this bill needed now?

Tammy Baldwin:

Well, in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade, it has implicated a number of other cases that the court has decided on similar grounds. Whether that’s access to contraception or same-sex marriage or interracial marriage, all were based in part on a constitutional right to privacy, which the majority says does not exist, and so people need certainty. This is a time of great fear and anxiety, about whether same-sex couples’ marriage license will be valid, and the rights and responsibilities associated with marriage are critically important to protect one’s family, and so the Respect for Marriage Act would codify the Obergefell decision and people could rest assured their marriage certificate is valid.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, I understand you need ten Republican senators to vote yes. What’s your current count?

Tammy Baldwin:

There are five Republicans who have publicly stated that they will support the Respect for Marriage Act, and I have spoken with an additional — well, additional many, but five additional members have indicated they are leaning in support, but I think because of how crowded the calendar is for next week, which is our last week before the August recess, and in light of the fact that we can’t have any absences, we need everybody there, and we have a few members with COVID, this is probably going to be a vote that occurs, what I would hope would be early September.

Frederica Freyberg:

So on the vote, though, the latest Gallop poll on the matter showed 70% of the public support same-sex marriage, including 55% of Republicans. Is there a disconnect for elected officials as so why, you know, you have to talk to these other five?

Tammy Baldwin:

The Congress of the United States, sadly, has often followed public opinion rather than led public opinion, and I am still very hopeful that we will have — in fact, I believe we do have the ten votes necessary to avoid a filibuster, but, yeah, it is something where I have — in the arena of civil rights, the U.S. public is often ahead of their elected representatives, and that’s too bad. There’s also, you know, sadly, a very strong difference between the parties. Every Democrat in the U.S. Senate supports the Respect for Marriage Act, and I don’t think this should be an issue that is reflective of a partisan divide, but it seems it still is.

Frederica Freyberg:

There is this. Senator Ron Johnson, arguably one of the most conservative members, has said he had “no reason to oppose the measure,” but then he came back and accused Democrats of creating a state of fear over an issue in order to further divide Americans for political benefit. How do you reconcile that?

Tammy Baldwin:

Well, I’m going to take him at his word when he said that he has no reason to oppose it, and I would view that as that he would support it, but I think that we have been trying very hard not to politicize this and to respond, again, to the fact that the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs. Wade precedent of 49 years and their reasoning leads people to legitimately fear that the Supreme Court would later overturn cases involving access to contraception and cases like Loving vs. Virginia and

Obergefell which deal respectively with interracial marriage and same-sex marriage.

Frederica Freyberg:

Your call for this bill comes as a result of that Clarence Thomas concurring opinion raising the issue in reversing Roe, but on that, Wisconsin as you know, now reverts back to its 1849 law with no exception for rape or incest. What do you think our state legislature should do on this? What is your message?

Tammy Baldwin:

Well, I think that they certainly should not send women back to the mid-1800s where, at a time when women did not even have the vote. It is un– it’s hard to put words — into words how chaotic this case has made things in terms of women being able to access the healthcare they need and to be able to have bodily autonomy and choose when and whether to have a family. The fact that Wisconsin women have fewer freedoms than their mothers and grandmothers is just hard to wrap our arms around. I think the state legislature needs to appeal that 1849 law, and I believe that they should codify a state version of something similar to Roe versus Wade.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Senator Tammy Baldwin, thank you very much.

Tammy Baldwin:

Thank you.