Frederica Freyberg:

Landmark legislation passed the U.S. Senate on a bipartisan vote this week. The Respect for Marriage Act insures that same-sex and interracial marriages are enshrined in federal law. The bill passed 61-36 on Tuesday including support from 12 Republicans. Not among them Wisconsin’s other Senator Republican Ron Johnson. In a statement on his “no” vote, he said in part “the Democrats continue to use this to create a state of fear over a settled issue in order to divide Americans for their political benefit. The substitute amendment did not provide sufficient protection for those with strongly-held religious beliefs.” The chamber’s first openly gay senator, Wisconsin Democrat Tammy Baldwin, was lead sponsor. She joined us earlier from Washington. Senator, thank you very much for joining us.

Tammy Baldwin:

My pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how meaningful is it to you that the Respect for Marriage Act passed the Senate this week?

Tammy Baldwin:

It’s meaningful on so many different levels. I will start with the fact that I have heard from so many who are expressing gratitude because they have been seriously worried about the future recognition of their marriages because of the threat that hangs over it after the Dobbs decision of the U.S. Supreme Court earlier this summer. And countless individuals have said how much it means to have a little bit more peace of mind now that the Respect for Marriage Act is headed towards being signed into law by President Biden. It’s also meaningful in, I think, a sort of bigger arc of history, if you will. This vote would have been unimaginable just a decade ago. That’s not where the Senate was. That’s not where the Congress was. That’s not where the people of the United States were. And so I think hearts and minds have changed. In fact I know that’s the case. 70% plus of Americans and Wisconsinites support marriage equality and I guess we’re gaining on those numbers in the U.S. Senate. We had at least 61 out of 100 join together to pass the Respect for Marriage Act and that says a lot about where we’re moving as a country.

Frederica Freyberg:

What precisely does the act provide for gay or interracial married couples?

Tammy Baldwin:

Yeah, so if either of the Supreme Court rulings that protected same-sex marriage or made same-sex marriage the law of the land, or made interracial marriages possible in every single state, if either of those cases were to fall, it would require that states, regardless of what their state law or constitution says, would have to respect and honor through the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution marriages that were valid where entered and when entered. So, for example, in a state like Wisconsin, where we have a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, Wisconsin would nevertheless still have to recognize any valid same-sex marriage that was entered into either in Wisconsin when it was legal, right? Or in another state where it is or was legal. And the other thing that the Respect for Marriage Act does is repeal the 1996 federal act called the Defense of Marriage Act. That created a federal barrier to recognition of same-sex marriages. It’s still on the books, and it’s been rendered toothless by the Supreme Court in their marriage equality case Obergefell

but it’s still on the books. So this gets rid of it. It will be off the books.

Frederica Freyberg:

How in this hyper-polarized political landscape did you get the Republican votes to get here?

Tammy Baldwin:

I think there were a number of different ways and frankly, you know, talking to Republicans who wanted to get to yes, but listening carefully to what their concerns and questions were and being able to work with some Republican colleagues on crafting language to clarify answers to their questions. So let me restate that I think a huge difference has been made that I don’t have any Republican colleagues who don’t know a gay couple, a lesbian couple, who don’t understand what marriage equality has meant in America.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your comment on Wisconsin’s other senator, newly reelected Republican Ron Johnson’s “no” vote on this?

Tammy Baldwin:

Obviously you have to ask him. He was on all sides of this issue, which was quite puzzling. I know early on he talked with the Wisconsin reporter and said he saw no reason to object to it, to not pass it. And then went through lots of machinations, in particular, I think citing some of the religious liberty concerns that some of my other Republican colleagues voiced. But we were able to fashion a response to that that led to the endorsement of this broad coalition of faith-based organizations, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the 7th Day Adventists, a coalition of evangelical churches, a group that represents Christian colleges and universities, Orthodox Jews. I mean this was an amazing coalition who is saying, look, having these religious liberties clarified and to clarify in the bill this is status quo.

Frederica Freyberg:

We know the bill goes back to the House for a final vote before the president signs it. But what more is left to do in your mind on behalf of LGBTQ citizens?

Tammy Baldwin:

We have work to do to address these repeals of these bans of same-sex marriage in the states, including by amending our constitution in Wisconsin. But on the broader question, you know, at the same time that we’re celebrating the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act, we know that record numbers of anti-LGBTQ legislation, particularly focused on transgender individuals, transgender youth in particular, are being introduced in state legislatures across America and that rhetoric exists also on Capitol Hill. There’s a lot of work yet to be done to achieve full equality, full equity and that work remains ahead of us.

Frederica Freyberg:

What will it be like for you to see this act signed into law?

Tammy Baldwin:

I think I might get a bit choked up. I already have been. It’s — you know, I know it’s going to make a difference. I know how many people just were resting a little bit easier upon Senate passage knowing that this was almost certainly going to become law.

Frederica Freyberg:

Senator Tammy Baldwin, thank you very much.

Tammy Baldwin:

Thank you.