Frederica Freyberg:

As the speaker of the Wisconsin Assembly parries back and forth with Donald Trump over the 2020 election, the second in command is taking his leave. “Here & Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz sat down with Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke.

Zac Schultz:

Majority Leader Steineke, thanks for your time.

Jim Steineke:

Absolutely.

Zac Schultz:

So you were one of the highest-ranking Republicans in Wisconsin to be a never Trumper or anti-Trump in this time. There’s a lot of people saying that’s what’s pushing you out of office. What does that have to do with your time and your decision to leave?

Jim Steineke:

It really doesn’t have much, if anything, to do with my decision to leave the legislature. Really, it is just kind of a natural progression. You come in and I’ve spent now 10 years in leadership, eight years as majority leader. And I just feel like it’s time to move on and let other people rise to the top and take their turn at the helm of things.

Zac Schultz:

Do other elected Republicans have similar views to you of the former president? Are they just scared to speak their mind as freely as you did?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah, I’m sure it kind of runs the gamut, right? Just like the public, there’s probably some really hard-core Trump supporters in our caucus and then there’s the opposite end where I tend to be, and I think everybody is somewhere in that range. Everybody’s got to make their own decisions on that, and you know, I was vocal in the beginning and tried to support the president when I thought he was doing good things, but also being vocal when I thought he wasn’t. And I think that’s important for everybody to do. You know, just have your own perspective and not always just follow the party line, no matter whether we think things are going well or not.

Zac Schultz:

We’ve seen Assembly Speaker Robin Vos try to placate some of the Trump crowd and Trump himself, especially with Michael Gableman’s investigation. It’s racked up a million dollars in taxpayer fees and looks to be more of some settlement issues with the courts right now about open records laws. What’s your opinion of that investigation?

Jim Steineke:

The Gableman investigation, I think the grade is incomplete at this point because there are the lawsuits out there that we’ve got to settle on, subpoenas and other things, so we’ll have to wait until that’s completely wrapped up before we stamp a final grade on it.

Zac Schultz:

What insight can you give us as to how much the speaker has had to move between to try and placate those who want more and those who understand that the elections were real and valid, but not to the level of the fraud that’s being alleged?

Jim Steineke:

I think that’s a really tough position to be in, because there are people that truly believe that the election was stolen. I think most people understand that that’s not likely to be the case, but there were things that happened in that last election that shouldn’t have. And I think this effort has always been one to get to the bottom of what exactly happened, what laws weren’t followed to the tee, and what we can do to correct it. And that’s what I think the legislature really needs to do, and what we’ve tried to do in this last legislative session is put forward bills to correct issues that even non-partisan Legislative Audit Bureau has found in the last election.

Zac Schultz:

We’re in the middle of a heated Republican primary for governor. And the candidates are — some of them are seeming to try to tread the line of placating some of those Trump believers that say the last election was stolen and those that understand that’s probably not the case. What are you seeing from your perspective in terms of their rhetoric and what that might mean if they come into office and have to stand behind that for the next presidential election?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah, I think anybody that’s focused on 2020, the 2020 election, whether it’s in the primary or in the general, is probably doing themselves a disservice because I think a vast majority of people have moved on from that issue. Although there are, as I said earlier, there are concerns over how the election was administered in some ways. So I think those things are appropriate to look at. But if we’re talking rigged or stolen elections, I don’t think that’s going to help anybody running for office.

Zac Schultz:

But there’s been a lot of language used that hedged the bets. Even you earlier just said “likely was valid.”

Jim Steineke:

Right.

Zac Schultz:

As opposed to “valid,” which every other legitimate organization has said so far.

Jim Steineke:

Yeah, and I believe it was valid. I do. I haven’t seen any evidence at this point to prove otherwise.

Zac Schultz:

Once they’re in office, though, would you have concerns about whether a Republican governor would sign the electoral votes in 2024 if there are uproars from Republican base voters saying it’s rigged?

Jim Steineke:

No, I don’t believe any sitting Republican governor would subvert the will of the people. I just — I don’t believe that’s the case. Wisconsin has one of the most secure systems of voting in the country. That’s what we have to remember. Even with some of these issues, with drop boxes and clerks filling out absentee ballot — parts of absentee ballots, those are the things that are problematic, but I don’t think that it leads to the level of, you know, fraud that would overturn the results of an election.

Zac Schultz:

You won’t be in office next year, but what would you like to see the legislature do when it comes to abortion? Does there need to be a law updating the 1849 law?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah, personally I’ve always been in the place where I’m pro-life. I do believe in exceptions for rape and incest. I’ve got a 12-year-old daughter at home and if, God forbid, something like that were to happen to her, I can’t imagine forcing her to continue that pregnancy for nine months. It would be a decision that I think she would have to make, because that’s not something somebody enters into willingly. And I think that’s the distinction I make. If you make the conscious choice to have sex with somebody and you become pregnant, well, that’s your choice. You might not have wanted the pregnancy, but you understand the risks. Somebody that doesn’t have that choice and is forced through rape or incest, they’re not making that choice.

Zac Schultz:

What about more clarity for the life of the mother? We’ve already seen some examples in Wisconsin about doctors not knowing at what point they can intervene in the case of a miscarriage or other illnesses.

Jim Steineke:

Yeah, I think that’s something that the legislature is going to have to wrestle with. I’m not sure exactly how that language would be drafted to make sure it wasn’t something that could be used in just about any case. So I’ll be interested to see what the legislature does in the coming session.

Zac Schultz:

All right. Representative Steineke, thanks for your time.

Jim Steineke:

Thank you.