Here & Now

Possibility of Further Violence

Frederica Freyberg:

The violence in our nation’s capital and FBI reports of possible attacks on state and federal buildings around the country led Governor Tony Evers to call up the National Guard to protect the state Capitol over the next several days. He also ordered ground floor windows at the Capitol boarded up against the threat of violence. The director of Emergency Management in Dane County says people should take the possibility of this kind of attack seriously. Charles Tubbs is also an instructor for the Department of Homeland Security and the former chief of the Wisconsin State Capitol Police. Thanks very much for being here.

Charles Tubbs:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the FBI today said that they are concerned about the potential for violence at state capitol buildings where rallies, they say, might bring in armed protesters. What is the latest that you can tell us from here in Wisconsin?

Charles Tubbs:

Well, we’re taking the threats very serious and we’re preparing and planning for the absolute worst, praying for the best, while at the same time we’re preparing ourselves to deal with the situation at hand and try to reduce any type of injuries or property damage or any situations of that nature. At this time we currently have the information that’s been shared by the FBI and has been looked at and discussed with emergency responders and other people involved here. At this time, we do not have a specific threat, current threat on a specific location other than the state capitols. But we’re taking the position that we’re going to protect the entire Dane County area and not only protect the entire Dane County area, but the entire state.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wow. Well, I know that some rallies are planned for Sunday, kind of midday. There is a rally for Jacob Blake and then there is a rally of Trump supporters and they kind of intersect in their times. And so how well fortified are potential target sites like the capitol in Madison, if you can tell us?

Charles Tubbs:

Well, the Capitol, you know, we saw what happened on January 6 where there was no respect, no regard taken for our United States Capitol. That situation we recognize can happen anywhere at any given time. So we have put together a team and we are working together as an entire county and state together to try to make sure that doesn’t happen. This is a real incident that could happen here and we’re going to do everything we can to avoid that from happening while at the same time keeping the entire community safe in dealing with those types of situations.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, Wisconsin has seen one arrest, to my knowledge, of an Eau Claire man for being inside the U.S. Capitol last week. From what you know, should we expect more arrests?

Charles Tubbs:

I believe without divulging any information, I believe there could be additional arrests involving people from Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

You have described to me your very real concern about Wisconsin’s home-grown kind of domestic terrorists or extremists. Describe that. Why?

Charles Tubbs:

Because our home-grown terrorists have been growing over the years and a recent report we were an area of concern. I think you might have saw recently on CNN news where they named five states and Wisconsin was one of them in dealing with home-grown terrorists and dealing with people who didn’t always respect the rule of law and play by the same rules that you and I and others would play by. It’s a real concern because at times some of these groups have no respect and will do just about anything to prove their point and carry out their mission who they are, what they think they are and how they can be above the law.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet authorities track these people, I trust, know who they are and where they are?

Charles Tubbs:

Yes, they do. Some of the difficulties with that, authorities do a really good job of trying to track them and stay on top of it, but sometimes it’s just small groups. Sometimes it’s a one loner type of person who feels the world is caving in on him and responds in a very destructive way and causes great bodily harm and death to people. So it’s a really tough thing to get your arms around. But I can say in this state we’re doing the best and a great job of trying to stay on top of what’s going on.

Frederica Freyberg:

How much do you think President Trump’s very recent message calling for no violence will help any of this?

Charles Tubbs:

I pray it will help. I really do. Sometimes when the horse is out of the barn, it’s hard to put the horse back in the barn. But I’m praying that he has taken up a better road, a higher road, on addressing the issues that the country is facing right now. And I’m praying that people will listen to what he had to say now versus what he had to say on the 6th. That appeared to be not very positive at all, what took a place on that particular day. So our hopes and prayers is that people will listen and people will follow those directions.

Frederica Freyberg:

I really only have about a half a minute left, but I want to ask you as the former chief of the Wisconsin Capitol Police, your reaction when you saw what was happening at the U.S. Capitol on the 6th.

Charles Tubbs:

I was devastated, disappointed, heart-broken, saddened. I felt awful. I was in Washington on 9/11 when the planes hit and the terrorist attack happened in this country and I can tell you I had some of the same empty feelings. I was hurting really just like the rest of America, and hoping we could get our arms around this and solve that problem immediately.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Thank you very much. Wish we had more time. Charles Tubbs, thank you and good luck.

Charles Tubbs:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Our digital reporter Will Kenneally will be closely monitoring fallout of the attack on the U.S. Capitol as well as any threats of violence to public buildings here in Wisconsin. You can find his reporting by going to PBSwisconsin.org and then clicking on the news page.