Marisa Wojcik:

Welcome to Noon Wednesday. I’m Marisa Wojcik, a multi-media journalist with Here & Now on Wisconsin Public Television. So 100 years ago, in June of 1919, Wisconsin was one of the first states to ratify the 19th amendment, to give women the right to vote. And by 1920, the amendment was adopted nationally. And many celebrated this victory for women. But, to many others, it was a hollow victory. As women of color had to wait decades longer to see this become a reality. So, as we head towards the centennial celebration of the 19 amendment, Representative Sheila Stubbs is making sure that the truth of our history about the marginalization of women of color voices, is not something that’s forgotten when we’re talking about the women’s suffrage movement. And Sheila Stubbs is here with us today. Thank you so much for being here!

Sheila Stubbs:

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this invitation. Really honored to be here with you.

Marisa Wojcik:

Yeah, and we’ve been wanting to have this conversation for a while, so it’s exciting that it’s happening.

Sheila Stubbs:

It’s happening!

Marisa Wojcik:

I want to start with a quote that you said from last June, and you said, “We must uplift all women and exclude no woman.” And in June you spoke at an event at the Capitol that was celebrating Wisconsin’s role in the 19th amendment. So what was your message that day?

Sheila Stubbs:

My message that day was to bring truth and power to this movement. I think that often times in American history, history tends to say what some people want it to say, but it’s not always as inclusive. And I really thought my voice was critical, because I was able to talk about the women’s suffrage and bringing that historical piece of conversation for black women. That was important for me and for other black women that were there, other black suffragettes that had grandparents or grandmas that was there. It was really important that I gave that part of history. I think all of our speakers did a great job, but I know that people really wanted to hear Representative Stubbs talk about the movement as it relates to black women. And it was really important to identify that this was an awesome movement, so grateful for it, it gave access to the ballot box for all women, but not all the black women had the access. And I think far too often, American history leaves that part out. And at any time I get an opportunity to articulate that to an audience, I wanted to do that. So it’s important for me to talk about sororities. Black sororities. To think about Ida B. Wells was also a founder of the NAACP. The National Association for Colored People. To talk about Ida B. Wells in the sense that, not only did she organize for the NAACP, she organized a group of black suffragettes. And they weren’t allowed to be in the front of the line, but they were moved to the back of the line. But she never kept her eyes off the fact that “I’m still going to be a part of this movement, whether I’m in the front of the line, the middle of the line, or the back of the line”. Which makes you think about Rosa Parks. Look how brave she was. So it’s to bring out the bravery but, Dorothy Heights and women, Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated, that is a part of our major movement. It’s the suffrage movement. But I think it’s really important to talk about how these black women were treated. It wasn’t a “yes, you’re welcome”, but it was “I’m going to march with you, because I believe in your cause”, and that’s what I really wanted to echo in that room. And how about Vel Phillips, the late Vel Phillips, and the amazing work she’s done in this state. I wanted people to actually celebrate what she’s done and that was a part of my message. Vel Phillips, the first African American Constitutional Officer in the State of Wisconsin. The highest ranking African American woman, that’s now deceased, but to also highlight the importance of Gwen Moore. Our first African American congressional woman, right in Milwaukee, but look at the greatness. So it was able to bridge those two together, the past and present.

Marisa Wojcik:

Do you feel like if you hadn’t been the one to bring it up that it might get swept under the rug? That some of this history just might not be a part of the conversation?

Sheila Stubbs:

Well I know the part of the committee, ’cause I’m on the committee with our First Lady Evers. That was a part of our planning, was to make sure that we did have these voices included. So I was asked to give the voice for the African American women suffragettes and my family perspective, and then we had Representative Rodriguez talk about the Latino communities. So, it was important that I bring that voice in, and it was welcome. And I’ll just be honest, that’s who I am, I make no apologies for what I stand for, what I believe in, so that part of the conversation was going to come out, regardless. But I was asked to have that conversation and happy to have been asked by our First Lady and the committee to do that.

Marisa Wojcik:

Do you think that it’s only recently that we’re starting to kind of readdress some of these forgotten histories? Is it enough of part of our K-12 education? You said often it is forgotten, how are we trying to circumvent that from happening in the future?

Sheila Stubbs:

So, I think it’s a couple of perspectives we have to look at. Education is the key to today’s currency. We must go back to curriculum, and we must be intentional within our curriculum. Building out a base in a curriculum that talks about women’s suffrage, and not just white women’s suffrage, but black women’s suffrage. Identify the Latino leaders, identify the Native American leaders. I mean, we have to be intentional and that is something I know this planning committee is working on with the historical society, and that’s the direction I want to move in. I’ll be very honest with you, I knew my K-12 school, that I did have couple African American teachers, which I’m honored that that happened. So they were able to tell me some of my history, but my parents were very direct about, “You need to attend a historical black college and university.” So I attended Tougaloo College in Tougaloo, Mississippi. That was a very private school that once was a plantation. That’s where I really began to indulge in the history, the rich history, of the African American community and slavery, and then now it’s a part of my passion. And so any stage I’m able to stand on, and give a platform, I like to have that conversation, but I agree with you. It has to move towards curriculum. I think civics has to be a different kind of conversation. Not just about suffrage, but we also have to talk about democracy, which is voting. A part of this women’s suffrage movement wasn’t just the suffrage, it was the access to the ballot box. And let’s talk about the voter ID that’s taking place across the state of Wisconsin and other states. Trying to block access to voting. So it’s really important that we have these platforms. That we don’t forget the purpose of the women suffrage movement. It was the right to vote.

Marisa Wojcik:

And so you are making a historical tie to some of the marginalization and disenfranchisement that happened in the past, to some of the things and issues that you work on today.

Sheila Stubbs:

Absolutely, and I think what we fail to realize also within the suffrages is, the importance of black churches. My grandmother Leola Pigg, the late Leola Pigg, my grandmother’s from Arkansas, and she talked about how the black women would meet in churches. They would meet in parks but it was secretive. No one could come out and say what we were doing. So they would have different locations to go, so it would be the sororities, it would be the churches, it would be clubs, but it had to be what they felt safe with black suffragettes. So when my mother went on to pass this story and my grandmother was talking to me about it, I didn’t really embrace it as well as I did, because I was much younger. As I’ve gotten in age, and I’ve gotten more towards the politics, I remember those stories, and what’s really important is we don’t lose those oral stories of what suffragettes went through and what it was was like back in the 1920s. From that decade through 1965 through the civil rights. It was not an easy time. It wasn’t just women not having a vote, it was black people not having a vote. So it was a really important time in our history and I think we have to recognize all of those organizations that were a part of that movement to help move the access to ballot. And if you ask me today, we’re still not there 100%. When we have laws, it’s trying to prevent democracy at the ballot box. I question the intent.

Marisa Wojcik:

So you see not learning from our history as a red flag. As we’re doomed to repeat it.

Sheila Stubbs:

Yeah, and why repeat history? Why repeat the same thing over and over again? I’m also a pastor and what that makes me think about is a reprobate mind. You keep doing the same old, same old, same old, it becomes a place of insanity. Why would we do that? This is a country that is supposed to be inclusive of all people. Freedom is a cost. Freedom isn’t free. My parents instilled that in me, it’s never been free. Someone paid the price for their life, they gave up something so I have the access to a classroom, to a restaurant, to a church, to a community, to the Capitol. I didn’t just show up there. It was my ancestors, it was slaves, that paved this way. So it’s so important for me, the position that I am, that I create pathways for other people, especially people of color.

Marisa Wojcik:

I want to talk a little bit about, I think a lot of people sometimes, don’t understand that you can’t talk about women’s issues without talking about other things like race. And some of that is manifested in some of the views of feminism today. Are there ways in which you are seeing some of the same patterns in how women are trying to organize themselves in present day politics and activism?

Sheila Stubbs:

Absolutely. I support feminism and I can say that I found my niche being a part of organizations where there are women. They understand, and one of the main factors that I think we have to understand with women, we’re always saying “we can’t do something. We can’t do it, we don’t time”. We have the time, and we have the commitment, and we are one of the larger voting blocks, so why aren’t we doing it? We don’t have to stand around and wait to be asked, and women often time wait to be asked to run for office or asked to participate. We’re there. And here’s my clich, if you’re not in a room, you’re on that menu, and if you’re on your menu, you’re subject to change, and your change is not going to be the change that you expect. So you want to be in that room, you want to be at that table, and you want to be driving the policy. And so, I’ve known women to actually organize, and it’s important to have our voices heard. It’s important to hear some of our obstacles. It’s important to have the support systems. And that’s what’s gotten me through. I am a woman that’s based on faith, so my religion, my family support, but I grew up with the NAACP and unions in my household. And so that has been the organizing of platforms that have helped me. And as a part of that, being a part of a sorority, I’m a member, proud member, of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated where I trailblazer, and honorary Dorothy Height came out of. So when you think about the connections, it all starts from some platform, and it’s usually from our faith.

Marisa Wojcik:

A little bit today, there’s still infighting amongst women’s groups. The women’s march, for example, largest march in American history, yet they are still years later fighting each other from the inside. Do you see this as productive? How do you bridge those gaps? Because there’s so many different types of women, and so because they’re representing different backgrounds and races and experiences, they’re having a hard time coming to the table. What recommendations do you have for women who are trying to unify their voice?

Sheila Stubbs:

I say it this way, gumbo has a lot of ingredients in it. At the end of the day, you get a wonderful soup. I think it’s hard to bridge everybody into one classification, but if you say, “Here’s my mission”, we all have mission, we all have vision. This organization will access you this, we’ll give you networking, or we’ll give you that. I think what you’re beginning to see is women voices have rose up to a platform, and because for so many years we’ve been in the background. We’re natural nurturers, so what you see is a lot of women nurturing. But I can say this, when women are in the room, we get things done. When women are in the position to make decisions, we are great decision makers, because we think things so thoroughly and think things through. But I think what happens is, we want to choose one group. One organization. But everybody has a different mission. Just because this group is out there, might not be the group that my desire is held. But it doesn’t negate that that group is relevant. And I think when it comes through, it’s a movement. And I think what you’ve seen is, it’s a women’s movement. But I think you have to find what works for you. I may not have the solution where all of us get along. It’s hard to have everybody get along, but I think people compromise, and I think that’s where we have to come through in society. Where is your compromise? I don’t get it all my way. I’m in the Capitol. Matter of fact, I’m in the minority, but I have to compromise. I have to be willing to give and take, and accept, and I think when it comes to women, sometimes it’s the compromising becomes part of that conversation that others may see as fighting, but it might simply be, we’re trying to compromise. Which way is the best way to go? Because for a long time, when you’ve not been given an opportunity, you want to do everything, but I think you have to be focused with your goals, your mission, and your vision in order to be successful. I’ll go back to my sorority. Our sorority is a very outstanding sorority, but we come back and we do the women’s suffrage every year out in D.C. We didn’t forget our history. But there’s new movements and new focuses but you don’t forget the old way of how things were started. So it’s about public awareness, it’s about public engagements, it’s about voting access. So if you go back to your basics, you don’t lose the foundation, but it’s when your foundation isn’t so study when you build it. That’s when you lose your focus.

Marisa Wojcik:

Are there things that the more homogeneous group of women, who are fighting for women’s rights, can do to make sure that they are listening to women of color and to different groups that are more marginalized and still feel like their voices aren’t being heard?

Sheila Stubbs:

So here’s what. It’s very simple. Include us on your executive committees and boards. That’s important because when I walk into a room, I want to see somebody who looks like me, because I don’t necessarily have to tell you my story, but we can relate somewhere there. I think when you have committees and it’s not diverse, I think that’s problem number one. And so one of the things that I can say, is I’ve been in lots of rooms and sometimes been the only African American, whether it be male or female. And it’s hard, because you’re like “is there not someone else? Am I literally it?” And you’re trying to network, you’re trying to understand, but you find yourself in an educational component. So you’re trying to educate everybody in the room, and that’s exhausting for people of color. We want to come in and we want to be diligent workers. So number one, I would say if there’s opportunity, diversify your room. Number two, give an action plan. Women are busy, right? We’re very busy. We’re probably sometimes the only ones in our households, single parents, we don’t have time to be everywhere doing everything, but be intentional about what you’re asking us to do. And you have to stay relevant. I want to be in a room where I think people have an agenda that moves forward, that includes inclusion, that includes access to voting, making sure my community is involved. But I don’t want to be in a room, where when I go in, people have already decided those decisions. So I would say diversify. Ask women of color to run for office. When there’s a seat available, try to make your community look like the community. In a sense of representation on boards, commissions, committees, county board supervisors, alders, state reps, that’s important because that is a voice. And people of color have an array of voices. It’s not just one voice. And I think that’s the next steps that I would like to have. And then when we’re in those rooms, let’s create pathways, and I say that over and over again. I want to make sure I bring people of color along on this beautiful journey. In the Capitol, there are absolutely no people, no pictures of people of color. But I want to see me! So it’s hard, so I decided to do something for myself. It’s creative, I created my own wall, right? And so how do we include the stories of people in this state? In a building, that’s a beautiful museum that represents us all, but I don’t see me. And so when we have internships, getting people of color in internships. So at the end of the day, they get hired for a job, right? So those are some of the goals that I have, and I’ve only been on the job eight months, but that’s a part of that inclusion process.

Marisa Wojcik:

I wanted to end with another quote that you said, “We can do better in Wisconsin, we know better”. Are those the things that you’re referring to? Is that the way that you see Wisconsin doing better?

Sheila Stubbs:

Absolutely. I mean, I made history being the first African American ever elected to the state legislature in Dane County. I made history breaking 170 years. What happened along the way? Where were the barriers? Where were the obstacles? Why aren’t we having good race conversations? Why aren’t we willing to talk about implicit bias trainings? Why aren’t we willing to have these really good conversations? Why are we having this band-aid, kind of, conversation? Let’s take the band-aid off, let’s begin to have real conversations, authentic conversations. That’s the only way we can move from where we are now, to where it needs to be. We have a long way to go. We have an extreme long way to go, but we have to start somewhere, and I am so glad the people of the 77th districts started with me. They started with me, they’re giving me a chance, and I am now a part of that history. We’ve had great history makers, like Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, I mean, I look up to Oprah Winfrey. There are great leaders, but I want to make sure that their stories aren’t lost. So while I’m in the position to write history, I want to make sure that I’m writing it correctly. I’m going to talk about conversations that America isn’t talking about, which is race. Not just because something just happened. We need to talk about it and we need to write the history. So that’s what I was referring to.

Marisa Wojcik:

Representative Sheila Stubbs, thank you so much for joining us.

Sheila Stubbs:

Thank you!

Marisa Wojcik:

For more from Here & Now and Wisconsin Public Television, you can visit wpt.org, and thank you so much for joining us on Noon Wednesday.