Here & Now

>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY," I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST WITH "HERE AND NOW" ON PBS WISCONSIN. TODAY IS APRIL 28th. THE HARDSHIPS OF THE COVID PANDEMIC ARE NOT LIMITED TO PHYSICAL HEALTH. A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS HAS BEEN GOING AS THE PAN PAN PANDEMIC DRAGS ON IMPACTING YOUNG PEOPLE. JOINING ME TODAY TO TALK ABOUT THE BREATH OF CONCERN OF THE ISSUE IS DR. MEGAN MORENO, A PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS AT THE UW SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND A PEDIATRIC PHYSICIAN, AND DR. MORENO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY. >> THANK YOU. >> I JUST WANT TO START BY ASKING, OVERALL, HOW ARE YOUTH FAIRING IN GENERAL, AND WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SEEING IN YOUR OWN PATIENTS? >> SURE. WELL, I THINK ONE WAY THAT ILLUSTRATES OH YOUTH ILLUSTRATES HOW YOUTH HAVE BEEN FAIRING IN THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR CLINIC VOLUME. WE HAVE AN ADDLESS SENT AND ADULT CLINIC IN UW HEALTH LOCATED IN MADISON, AND WE HAVE PATIENT VOLUMES EACH YEAR THAT WE COUNT AND CALCULATE IN IN-PATIENT AND OUT-PATIENT. A MONTH AGO, WE LOOKED AT NUMBERS OVER THE PAST YEAR AND COMPARED IT TO THE PAST FIVE YEARS, AND OUR VOLUMES THIS YEAR ARE ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT WE EXPECT ON PAST YEARS SO REALLY TWICE THE NUMBER OF PATIENTS THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE GETTING ADMITTED TO THE HOSPITAL, TWICE THE NUMBER OF PATIENTS THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE GETTING REFERRED TO US IN ADOLESCENT MEDICINE, AND THE OTHER THING WE ARE SEEING IS WHEN WE, OURSELVES, MAKE REFERRALS TO MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, THE WAIT TIMES ARE MUCH, MUCH LONGER AND THE ACCESS IS MUCH LOWER. THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THERE'S A LOT OF KIDS OUT THERE SEEKING CARE AND HAVING MORE DIFFICULTY ACCESSING CARE, BUT THAT DOESN'T SCRATCH THE SURFACE OF KIDS WHO COULD USE MORE SUPPORT AND ARE NOT TRYING TO GET IT. >> JUST TO PUT IT INTO PERSPECTIVE, HOW HAS THIS LAST YEAR OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC BEEN DIFFERENT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE THAN PREVIOUS DECADES WHERE OTHER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED, WARS, BIG THINGS IN HISTORY, WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS TIME? >> I THINK THAT ONE ASPECT THAT'S UNIQUE AND IMPACTS ADOLESCENTS IS THINKING ABOUT WHERE ADOLESCENTS ARE IN THEIR DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE. SOME OF THE BIG TASKS AND REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS FOR ADOLESCENTS TO DO INCLUDE BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP AUTONOMY FROM THEIR PARENTS, BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP PEER SUPPORT STRUCTURES, BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP AND UNDERSTAND THEIR OWN IDENTITY, AND ALL OF THOSE ASPECTS OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THE PANDEMIC. IT IS HARDER TO DEVELOP YOUR IDENTITY WHEN YOU CAN'T LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. IT IS HARDER TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT WITH FRIENDS WHEN YOU CAN'T SEE YOUR FRIENDS. SO I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT PUTTING ADOLESCENTS AT UNIQUE RISK. AT THE SAME TIME I THINK WHAT HAS MADE THIS SITUATION DIFFERENT THAN HISTORICAL EVENTS IN THE PAST ARE THAT ADOLESCENTS HAVE TECH-BASED TOOLS TO BE ABLE TO STAY CONNECTED IN WAYS THAT WERE NOT POSSIBLE BEFORE. I OFTEN THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DOOM AND GLOOM STORIES IN THE MEDIA HOW MUCH ADOLESCENTS ACCESS SCREENS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO REFLECT THAT WHAT IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE SCREENS? YOU KNOW, YOUTH WOULD HAVE MISSED OUT ON A YEAR OF SCHOOL. MAYBE IT WAS NOT A PERFECT SCHOOL EXPERIENCE, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS BETTER THAN NO SCHOOL EXPERIENCE, AND THEY WOULD HAVE MISSED OUT ON FACETIMING WITH GRANDMA, WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS SEEING GRANDMA, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY BETTER THAN NOT CONNECTING IN THAT WAY, AND SO I THINK THAT IT IS A VERY CHALLENGING TIME FOR ADDLESSENTS, BUT IN PART, MADE BETTER BY TECH TOOLS IN THE MODERN ERA. >> THEY ARE A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD, AND YOU ALLUDED TO THIS, BUT THERE ARE DOWNSIDES FOR ADOLESCENTS AND THEIR DEVELOPING BRAINS WITH SO MUCH SCREEN TIME? >> YEAH. IT IS A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD M I THINK THAT THE IDEA THAT BEING IN FRONT OF THE SCREEN ALL DAY AND GETTING ALL OF YOUR SOCIAL CONNECTION AND LEARNING FROM THAT SCREEN IS DEFINITELY NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP ADOLESCENTS FLOURISH AND GROW IN SOME OF THE WAYS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. THE IDEA OF EVEN JUST SITTING STILL IN ONE PLACE ALL DAY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S REPORTS OF EYE AND BACK FATIGUE, PHYSICAL HEALTH PARAMETERS THAT COULD BE IMPACTED WHEN YOU SIT IN THE SAME CHAIR ALL A, AND WE AS ADULTS UNDERSTAND THIS WELL, AND JUST ZOOM FATIGUE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO GIVE YOUR ATTENTION TO A TINY LITTLE BOX IN FRONT OF YOU. IT IS JUST VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE TIME OF IMMERSIVE LEARNING WE KNOW CAN REALLY HELP YOU TAKE IN LESSONS AND LEARN AND IN REALLY POSITIVE WAYS. >> NOW, ARE THERE SOME STUDENTS THAT ARE ACTUALLY THRIVERRING -- THRIVING IN THIS ENVIRONMENT? >> GREAT QUESTION. I ARGUE THAT THERE ARE. THERE ARE DEFINITELY STUDENTS WE'VE SEEN IN CLINIC THAT WERE STRUGGLING BEFORE COVID AND HAVE COME TO A VISIT OFTEN BY TELEHEALTH AND SAID THIS IS FANTASTIC. THIS IS A WAY THAT I REALLY LIKE TO LEARN. I'M MORE COMFORTABLE. SOME KIDS WHO WERE STRUGGLING WITH BULLYING IN SCHOOLS HAVE FELT LIKE THIS WAS A REPRIEVE FOR THEM. EVEN IN MANY OF THE WORKPLACES, WE SEE SOME PEOPLE SAYING, THIS IS THE KIND OF WORK I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. I THINK THAT A CHALLENGE FOR US IN THIS NEXT PHASE WILL BE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THAT NEW NORMAL LOOK LIKE? ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN ADAPT SOME SYSTEMS FOR KIDS WHO DID REALLY, REALLY WELL IN THIS TECH-BASED LEARNING ENVIRONMENT. >> AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONNECTING WITH TECH, SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE A WAY TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE, BUT I EVEN NOTICE MY OWN ATTENTION SPAN CAN SOMETIMES SHORTEN WHEN I'M DISTRACTED BY SO MANY SOCIAL MEDIA APPS. HOW DOES THAT IMPACT YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY WHERE IT IS SO SOCIAL MEDIA HEAVY. >> YEAH. I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA HAS DEFINITELY BEEN A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD FROM THE BEGINNING, AND DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT'S PRESENTED NEW OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL AS NEW CHALLENGES. SOME OF WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IN CLINIC IS ADOLESCENTS WHO HAVE BEEN PART OF LARGER MOVEMENTS USING SOCIAL MEDIA WHETHER THOSE ARE LARGER, MORE CIVIC BASED MOVEMENTS OR EVEN JOINING SOMETHING FUN AND SILLY LIKE A SOURDOUGH BAKING CHALLENGE SO I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA HAS GIVEN THAT POWER OF CONNECTION FOR SOME YOUTH, BUT FOR OTHERS, IT HAS BECOME SOMETHING THAT BECOMES MORE COMPULSIVE AND HARDER TO KNOW WHEN TO LOG OFF WHEN YOU ARE AT HOME ALL DAY, AND YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE CUES OF WHEN YOU SHOULD BE GETTING UP OR GOING OUT. IT, I THINK, IT'S MAGNIFIED THOSE BENEFITS AND MAGNIFIED THE RISKS. >> NOW, SCHOOLS CAN BE A PLACE OF INTERVENTION AND AN EDUCATOR COULD POSSIBLY BETTER SEE PHYSICAL OR BEHAVIOR CHANGES IN A STUDENT WHO MAY BE STRUGGLING. DO WE KNOW THE EXTENT TO WHICH SOME THINGS ARE GOING UNCHECKED? IS SEEKING MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT BEEN DESTIGMATIZED ENOUGH THAT STUDENTS CAN ASK FOR HELP SOONER OR BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE? >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. THE DE-STIGMAIZATION OF MENTAL HEALTH, I THINK, HAS BEEN IMPROVING STEADILY OVER THE PAST DECADE, AND, HOPEFULLY, WITH THE EVENTS OVER THE LAST YEAR WILL CONTINUE TO BE IMPROVED. I THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE STORIES THAT CAN BE TOLD VIA SOCIAL MEDIA IN THE WAYS PEOPLE CAN COMMUNICATE JUST SOCIAL NORMING AROUND MENTAL HEALTH AND SEEKING MENTAL HEALTHCARE, I THINK THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN REALLY GREAT STRIDES THAT MANY OF US HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR FOR A LONG TIME. I THINK THAT RIGHT NOW ONE OF THE CONCERNS IS THAT WE DO HAVE SO MUCH OF A LOWER STIGMA ABOUT SEEKING MENTAL HEALTHCARE, AND MANY FOLKS WHO NEED THAT CARE RIGHT NOW, BUT WE HAVE MORE OF AN ACCESS GAP WHERE THERE'S SO MUCH NEED AND NOT ENOUGH PROVIDERS TO FILL IT. >> WHAT IS ONE OF THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS OR MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS TO BRIDGING THAT GAP? >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND IT IS ONE THAT MANY FOLKS IN THE PEDIATRIC, MENTAL HEALTH, AND EDUCATION COMMUNITIES ARE THINKING ABOUT. ONE OF THE GROUPS WITHIN OUR UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, THE WISCONSIN PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM, HAS PUT OUT A CALL FOR GRANT APPLICATIONS FOR FOLKS WHO OPERATE WITHIN COMMUNITIES TO PUT FORTH SOME OF THEIR BEST IDEAS ON HOW TO BRIDGE THIS GAP, AND THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE BUILDING NEW PROGRAMS FOR YOUTH TO ENGAGE WITH AND BUILD SELF-ESTEEM AND RESILIENCE, WHICH WE KNOW BOTH ARE PROTECTIVE FROM MENTAL HEALTH AND PROVIDING TRAINING TO THOSE ALREADY ENGAGING WITH YOUTH BUT MITE -- MIGHT NOT HAVE ADDITIONAL MENTAL TRAINING SO COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS, PEER SUPPORT PEOPLE, JUST TRYING TO LOOK ACROSS WHO'S ALREADY ENGAGE ENGAGED IN THE WORK AND GIVE THEM A NEW SET OF TOOL IN THEIR TOOL BOX TO BRIDGE THIS INCREASED NEED. >> DO WE UNDERSTAND HOW A YOUNG PERSON IS PROCESSING SOMETHING LIKE A GLOBAL PANDEMIC, AND EVEN FURTHER, IF THEY HAVE LOST SOMEONE CLOSE TO THEM DUE TO COVID-19? >> SUCH A GREAT QUESTION. I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED FROM THE PAST COUPLE DECADES OF BEING FORTUNATE TO WORK WITH ADOLESCENTS IS BEING CAREFUL THINKING OF THEM AS A GROUP BECAUSE THEY ARE SUCH A DIVERSE SET OF INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE REALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES THAT IMPACT THEM. I THINK THAT BEING ABLE TO THINK ABOUT THEIR DEVELOPMENTAL LENS, AND, AGAIN, THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED IN THIS STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP AN IDENTITY TO MAKE SOCIAL CONNECTION, TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE ABLE TO BUILD AUTONOMY, THOSE CAN HELP US, I THINK, THINK ABOUT WHAT ASPECTS OF THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THE PANDEMIC, BUT I ALSO THINK ADOLESCENTS ARE ONE OF THE MOST RESILIENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT -- AND MOST RESILIENT AGE GROUPS THAT WE HAVE -- AND GEN Z IN PARTICULAR IS THE MOST DIVERSE INTERSECTIONAL WE'VE EVER SEEN. WE HAVE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT AND RESOURCES, BUT NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS AS AN INCREDIBLY STRONG GENERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE. >> THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED RACISM AS A SERIOUS PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT. HOW DO YOUTH NOT ONLY PROCESS THAT FACT ALONE, BUT ALSO ONGOING SEEING AND HEARING ABOUT ANOTHER BLACK OR BROWN PERSON BEING TARGETED OR KILLED, AND HOW IS THIS ACUTELY IMPACTING ESPECIALLY YOUTH OF COLOR? >> THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. I THINK THAT BEING ABLE TO CALL RACISM WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, WHICH MEANS THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT IMPACTS THE HEALTH OF INDIVIDUALS AS WELL AS COMMUNITIES, IS A REALLY IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD TO BE ABLE TO BUILD TOOLS AND INTERVENTIONS AS WELL AS PREVENTION TO BE ABLE TO NOT MAKE THIS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS ANYMORE. I THINK YOUTH, AND, AGAIN, THIS GENERATION OF YOUTH WHO IS SO DIVERSE AND INTERSECTIONAL, I THINK THIS REALLY SPEAKS TRUTH TO THAT GROUP, AND I THINK THAT THERE'S MANY EXAMPLES OF PLACES WHERE USE HAVE ALREADY BEEN ORGANIZING AND ADVOCATING AND MAKING THEIR VOICES HEARD THROUGH TOOLS LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA AND THROUGH THINGS LIKE STRONG ADULT MENTORS, SO I THINK THAT FOR GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS AND FOR THE GENERATION, THERE'S A LOT OF POWER THAT THEY PERCEIVE THAT THEY CAN WIELD, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT NEGATES THAT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL ADOLESCENT WHO HAD A NEGATIVE OR HARMFUL EXPERIENCE. THEY STILL NEED SUPPORT AND RESOURCES THAT, AGAIN, ARE HARDER TO COME BY RIGHT NOW. >> AND YOU SPOKE TO RESILIENCE AND YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE PLASTIC BRAINS, CAN BE VERY FLEXIBLE, BUT THEY ALSO ABSORB A LOT OF INFORMATION. IS THE CURRENT SOCIAL SITUATION GOING TO ONLY HAVE SHORT TERM IMPACTS BECAUSE OF THAT RESILIENCY, OR WILL THERE BE LONG-TERM IMPACTS BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THEY TAKE IN ON THEIR DEVELOPING BRAINS? >> I THINK THAT WE CAN BE FAIRLY OPTIMISTIC WHEN WE THINK ABOUT ADOLESCENTS AND THEIR CAPACITY TO LEARN AND GROW. THE IDEA THAT THEIR BRAINS ARE STILL PHYSICALLY AND COG COGNITIVELY DEVELOPING UNTIL THE AGE OF 25. THERE'S REASONS TO THINK THEY ARE COME OUT OF THIS BETTER, FASTER, AND STRONGER THAN THOSE OF US SITTING WITH A FULLY DEVELOPED BRAIN FOR A WHILE. I THINK THAT A LOT OF THAT DEPENDS ON HOW WE PROVIDE SUPPORT TO TEENS TO CON CONTEXTUALIZE WHAT HAPPENED AND GIVE THEM SUPPORT NEEDED TO PROCESS IT AND THE AGENCY TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTIONS SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. >> WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR FAMILIES, PARENTS, EDUCATORS, CARE GIVERS, OR YOUTH, THEMSELVES, WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING IT THROUGH THIS TIME? >> I THINK THAT ONE PATTERN I'VE SEEN AMONG YOUTH WHO HAVE DONE WELL DURING THE PAST YEAR IS YOUTH CAN FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE AN ADULT IN THEIR LIFE THAT WILL LISTEN TO THEM. FOR MANY YOUTH, THEY WOULD GET THIS AT SCHOOL WITH A FAVORITE TEACHER OR EATING LUNCH IN THE TEACHER'S CLASSROOM WHEN THEY HAD A TOUGH DAY. I THINK THAT WORKING AT HOME AND GOING TO SCHOOL AT HOME AND POTENTIALLY PARENTS WORKING AT HOME, THAT CAN GIVE KIND OF THE ILLUSION THAT YOU'RE ALL TOGETHER ALL DAY, BUT IT MAY ACTUALLY BE THAT YOU'RE ALL IN SEPARATE ROOMS TRYING TO GET YOUR WIFI TO WORK. I THINK THAT FOR PARENTS WHO REALIZE THAT IT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT TIME TO LISTEN TO YOUR TEENS, TO LISTEN TO WHAT THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT, TO LISTEN TO HOW SAD THEY ARE FOR THINGS THEY ARE MISSING OUT ON, AND TO TRY TO AVOID, YOU KNOW, DISMISSING WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH. THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS OR WORRIES THAT ADULTS DO, BUT THE PROBLEMS AND THE WORRIES THEY HAVE ARE VERY, VERY REAL FOR THEM, AND THEY NEED AN ADULT IN THEIR LIFE THAT IS GOING TO LISTEN AND VALIDATE THEIR CONCERNS AND GIVE THEM BOTH REALISTIC INFORMATION AS WELL AS A HOPE FOR WHAT'S TO COME. >> ALL RIGHT. DR. MEGAN MORENO FROM THE UW DEPARTMENT OF PEDIATRICS AND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND PUBLIC HEALTH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY. >> THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE. >> FOR MORE FROM "HERE AND NOW" AND PBS WISCONSIN, YOU CAN VISIT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "NOON WEDNESDAY."