Marisa Wojcik:

Welcome to Noon Wednesday, I’m Marisa Wojcik, a multimedia journalist with Here & Now on Wisconsin Public Television. So a global movement is pushing for action on climate change. And while that’s happening globally, locally, Wisconsin is already feeling the impacts from a changing environment. Communities are flooding in underwater, farmers are trying to mitigate crop loss. And the Head of our State’s Department of Natural Resources is urging his staff to focus on climate change research and saying climate change is one of the defining issues of our time. So today, we’re talking about this from a local and global perspective. Doctor Sumudu Atapattu is with us. She’s the Director of the UW Law school for Research Centers and specializes in environmental and climate change law. And thank you so much for being here.

Sumudu Atapattu:

Thank you for inviting me.

Marisa Wojcik:

So even just last night, we had flash floods in Wisconsin. This is one of the signifiers of climate change, is it not?

Sumudu Atapattu:

That’s right and we don’t realize the connection with climate change. And one of the things that climate scientists are telling us is that the severe weather events will increase in both intensity and frequency because of climate change. So we see more severe hurricanes taking place, severe flooding as well as severe drought, that is also connected to climate change and that has an impact on communities both in Wisconsin, as well as in other parts of the world.

Marisa Wojcik:

And what else is kind of specifically happening in Wisconsin, what do we know?

Marisa Wojcik:

So according to the Environmental Protection Agency, there are several consequences on Wisconsin specifically, and some of them are actually beneficial but many of them are not. So as we saw in recent times, heavier precipitation and flooding is a feature because there’s less snow and there’s less frost as well that’s having an impact on agriculture. And also an impact on the Great Lakes. They are still studying the impacts. But what they have said is that because of these runoffs, due to flooding will have an impact on the lakes. And also possible sewerage over spilling into the lakes will have an impact obviously, on health and drinking water and things like that. And also it will have an impact on the dairy industry, which is pretty significant.

Marisa Wojcik:

A multi-billion dollar industry

Sumudu Atapattu:

Billion dollar industry. And the farmers are already affected by this issue.

Marisa Wojcik:

Yeah, we’re seeing that right now with harvest season. And so obviously, all of those things fall under Wisconsin’s natural resources. So it’s seems pretty significant seeing is how even about five years ago, the Wisconsin DNR eliminated references to climate change on it’s website, but now it appears that there will be kind of a shift back towards climate change research by the leader of the DNR. Is that pretty significant or is that kind of a general trend to say we need to refocus efforts?

Sumudu Atapattu:

It’s both actually. I think it’s pretty significant that we are realizing the severe consequences on Wisconsin and its communities. And globally also, there’s more and more action as well as research on climate change. And I think this is a good opportunity for the DNR to actually work with the university because University, particularly the Nelson Institute, has a lot of programs going as well as research projects going on on climate change.

Marisa Wojcik:

And there has been one initiative that is a direct correlation between the DNR and the Nelson Institute. And that’s the Wisconsin Initiative on Climate Change Impacts. And so some of that work is to look at kind of the holistic picture for our State.

Sumudu Atapattu:

Exactly and unless we know what’s going on, it’s very difficult to adopt policies and laws relating to climate change. So that’s really the first step to identify what’s going on. Some of them we may not know for sure what the consequences are going to be. But there’s a lot of modeling going on that we can actually predict what the consequences are.

Marisa Wojcik:

So that seems like the power of a large state organization mobilizing in order to do research, find data and look at a broader perspective. But does that inhibit like local officials from being able to do stuff in their own communities?

Sumudu Atapattu:

Absolutely, I think that it’ll give more power to the local authorities to take more action. And in fact, there are lots of initiatives that matters across the world including Wisconsin are taking in relation to climate change. So from C40 Cities, of which Madison is not part but Chicago is, so there’s an opportunity for us to get involved. And then there are lots of action plans that these cities have adopted in relation to climate change.

Marisa Wojcik:

And one of those is the Global Covenant of Mayors to act on climate change. Three Wisconsin cities are part of that, La Crosse, Wisconsin Rapids and Eau Claire and Wisconsin Rapids is not a large city, it’s like a population of 18, 000. So it seems like there are interests of cities that you might not anticipate wanting to participate.

Sumudu Atapattu:

Absolutely and I read that 50% of the population lives in cities. And we are also contributing 70% of emissions to climate change. So there’s a lot that we can do at the city level to address the problem.

Marisa Wojcik:

So what happens to communities that are adversely impacted? Your work looks at kind of an international scale of things. And so you can see certain patterns based on the work that you do. So, what happens to communities to populations of people?

Sumudu Atapattu:

So across the wall, the impacts are very disproportionate to the contribution to the issue. And that’s one of the saddest part of climate change because communities that contributed least to the problem, are being disproportionately affected by the consequences. So for example, some of the communities, indigenous communities in Alaska, have to be relocated to different parts because it’s no longer safe for them to live where they’re living right now. So whole villages have to be moved because of the consequences. And another community of the coast of Louisiana, being relocated right now to the mainland because of climate change. And then one of the biggest sort of concerns is about forced displacement associated with climate change. And that’s going to affect many, many countries in the world.

Marisa Wojcik:

And you spoke of the Great Lakes, folks living close to a shore are finding that shoreline being carved away year after year So because of displacement and all other adverse impacts, you look at this as a human rights issue, why is that?

Sumudu Atapattu:

Because people are affected, actual communities are being affected. And I think giving a human face to the problem is very important because some people consider climate change as just an environmental problem and it is not. It’s actually a human rights issue, it’s a public health issue. One of the consequences of climate change will be on public health, with greater heatwaves. People have died and it’s only going to get worse. And one of the things that is understudied is the mental health impacts of climate change. So I think giving a human face to the problem is very important. And also considering this as a larger issue that affects the economy, national security, public health and obviously, the environment. I think, looking at it holistically, I think is important.

Marisa Wojcik:

So for example, going back to agriculture and farmers, if a farmer loses a lot of its crop yield, it becomes a factor, who’s responsible for that? And does the farmer have to bear the brunt of that?

Sumudu Atapattu:

That’s the million dollar question that a lot of lawyers are grappling with. Usually, we can identify one source that’s responsible or several sources that’s contributing to the issue. Here, we have a global environmental problem, a global emergency where everybody, including you and I are contributing. But obviously, some are contributing more than others. So one of the things that lawyers are looking at is legal responsibility where the major fossil fuel companies should be held accountable. At least since the science became known about the link with greenhouse gases.

Marisa Wojcik:

And so do you see, we’re saying the phrase climate change right now, but some people are still not even using that phrase to refer to severe weather, pattern changes. Do we need to be using the same language in order for for us to be looking at solutions?

Sumudu Atapattu:

That would be helpful but as you know, this has also become a huge political issue because there’s a lot of money involved. Then we have to transition away from fossil fuel on a day-to-day basis. And that obviously, affects the interests of certain groups. But the point that I would like to make is that whether we call it climate change or severe weather or whatever, it’s all related and we are all realizing that it’s happening, at least to some extent, that the consequences are already taking place. So whatever we want to call, it doesn’t really matter as long as we take action to address it.

Marisa Wojcik:

And speaking of taking action, there were global climate strikes a couple of weeks ago and there was a huge global push for momentum to take action. Do you see that momentum fading away or do you think that something kind of different is happening? Do you think there is some sort of tipping point because we’ve been talking about changes in climate for decade?

Sumudu Atapattu:

Yeah, I think the momentum has shifted definitely, because the younger generation, our children, are actually asking the elders to do something because they are going to bear the brunt of this problem. And I don’t think any parent or grandparent would want their children and grandchildren to have a worse off situation, to live in a worse off situation than themselves. So I think by getting the younger generation involved in this movement, I can see a sense of urgency coming into the discussion and I don’t think the movement is going away. Even last week, there were protests across Canada where Greta Thunberg was visiting. And in Montreal alone, there had been over 500, 000 people marching including their president, I’m sorry, Prime Minister. And also the children, several children got together and filed a complaint in the committee on children’s rights against several governments. So I think the discussion has shifted. And also I was in Canada over the weekend and I saw a sign that said, interfaith discussion on the climate emergency, that’s what they’re referring to. And this was in Halifax not a big city. So I think the discussion has shifted definitely.

Marisa Wojcik:

And you see a general trend shifting away from hesitation?

Sumudu Atapattu:

I think so. I mean, certainly in the US, we can do more as one of the biggest contributors to the problem. And also, we have the ability to help others in terms of technology and resources as well. Certainly, we can do more at the Federal level but I think there’s a lot going on at the State level and at the city level.

Marisa Wojcik:

Well, thank you so much for joining us and giving us a lot more context to this issue.

Sumudu Atapattu:

Thank you for inviting me.

Marisa Wojcik:

For more from Here & Now and Wisconsin Public Television, you can visit wpt.org. And thank you so much for joining us on Noon Wednesday.