Marisa Wojcik:
Welcome to Noon Wednesday. I’m Marisa Wojcik, a multimedia journalist with Here & Now on Wisconsin Public Television. So as the push and pull over the state’s biennial budget continues, we turn to higher education and specifically the debate over whether students covered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, should be eligible for in-state tuition. Currently 21 states in the U.S. do have this provision. And Governor Tony Evers has included it in his proposed budget. But many are seeing it as dead on arrival with a Republican-controlled legislature. So today, Julio Gumeta joins us to tell us his story. And thanks so much for being here.

Julio Gumeta:
Yeah, no problem, I’m happy to be here.

Marisa Wojcik:
So first, I want you to tell us a little bit about where you came from, when you came here, where you graduated high school.

Julio Gumeta:
I was born in a small state in Mexico called Chiapas, the southernmost state. It’s a very poor state. My family has lived there for generations. In 1998, there was a big flood that devastated most of our small town. And that’s when my family decided to move here, mostly because we had an uncle who had been traveling back and forth since the ’80s and got his citizenship through the Reagan administration and their policy. So he set roots here, or not here, but in Milwaukee. And after the flood happened, my grandma and my dad decided to come here to try to work here because there was no work down where we come from. It was going to be hard finding a job somewhere else in Mexico. And it wasn’t going to pay quite as much as if we were here. It would just have been easier for us to rebuild. But after a year of them being here, my grandmother and my father, my mom decided that it would be best for her, myself and my sister to be reunited with my dad. She thought that I was changing a lot behaviorally. So she decided that risking it, risking our lives just to reunite the family was worth it. And it was. So we took a 12, 16 hour bus ride from our little state to Sonora which is a border state. It’s in northern Mexico on the southwest of Arizona. And after a couple of weeks of staying in a little shack that barely passed for a safe house, we walked through the desert through the night and through the morning for about 10 hours. And after that, it was coming from hotels to hotels until we came here to Illinois and then to Milwaukee. It was a long journey, but it was well worth it for us.

Marisa Wojcik:
And you graduated from Pulaski High School.

Julio Gumeta:
Yeah from Pulaski High School yeah.

Marisa Wojcik:
So what was it like, growing up in Wisconsin as a Dreamer?

Julio Gumeta:
Well before DACA passed, it was really sad. I felt like there was no prospect for me or for my future. So going into high school, I never really tried as hard as I could’ve. I definitely gave up and just sort of. I mean, most of my high school, I didn’t. I just didn’t try. I failed a lot of my classes. And I was barely able to graduate, but thankfully, I did. I didn’t feel like I had any prospects in the past, going through high school.

Marisa Wojcik:
And what changed?

Julio Gumeta:
DACA. DACA was passed the same year I was about to graduate. So that allowed me to. It just gave me an opportunity to work. So that means I can find a good job, a good paying job, instead of finding a job that will pay me under the table but won’t pay me minimum wage or not as much as if I were finding a legitimate job with a work permit. That’s what allowed me to do it. It allowed me to get a job, start saving, paying off some of my tickets that I got for a suspended license. Because when I was working, before, just after graduating but before I got DACA, I would have to drive all the way to Port Washington. Before DACA, I got a couple of tickets. And it still stayed on my record, even though I didn’t have a license at the time. So I couldn’t get a license right away. So that made another obstacle for me, not having DACA.

Marisa Wojcik:
And that’s also a part of the state debate right now for sure is driver’s license for undocumented immigrants.

Julio Gumeta:
Yes.

Marisa Wojcik:
So right now, you are a student of post-secondary education. But you would rather do a four-year degree. But what are you able to pursue now?

Julio Gumeta:
Well now, I can go into MATC and go into your two-year program, IT software development, something I’m very passionate, something I’ve always been interested in as a kid. So having DACA has allowed me to start that program. But it hasn’t really opened up all the doors that it could’ve. ‘Cause MATC is one of the only schools that I know of, at least in Milwaukee and I think in the whole state of Wisconsin, that allows in-state tuition for undocumented students or students who have varying legal statuses like mine.

Marisa Wojcik:
How much would it cost you if you tried to attend a UW school?

Julio Gumeta:
For a semester at UW-Milwaukee, which is one of the schools I was looking into, it would be 21,000 for-

Marisa Wojcik:
A year?

Julio Gumeta:
Yeah, I think for one semester, maybe a year. But if I had in-state tuition, it would be cut down to 10,000. It would be more affordable for me. And not only that, just another thing that could be done that hasn’t been proposed is letting students like me, who are not fully undocumented, to have access to FASFA and government grants. But that’s another thing that I can’t get.

Marisa Wojcik:
So one of the things that you said in an opinion piece that you wrote recently was that a measure like this would be beneficial to Wisconsin’s economy. Why did you say that?

Julio Gumeta:
Well yeah, allowing drivers licenses for everybody will allow more people to get the positions that are open. ‘Cause I know there’s a lot of need for workers in northern Wisconsin. But those jobs can’t be met because the people who work manual labor, or those jobs, are usually undocumented people. And they just fear going up there. They just don’t feel safe driving north.

Marisa Wojcik:
And how about the opportunities for higher education? How would that benefit Wisconsin’s economy?

Julio Gumeta:
Right well, for in-state tuition, being able for me to go to UW-Milwaukee school, it would open a lot of opportunities for me. There’s obviously a bigger network of alumni and a greater quality of education. There’s obviously more resources, a lot more ways to network and more opportunities there. So it would open a lotta doors, not only for me, myself, but all the Dreamers out there who want to better themselves and want a brighter future.

Marisa Wojcik:
Some people say this would take away money or opportunities for Wisconsin residents. Do you agree with that?

Julio Gumeta:
No because if those residents here would. If we were taking anything from them, they would obviously be like. How can we take something that they’re not takin’ advantage of? If they’re not taking advantage of that, then that’s a fault on them. That’s not to say that we’re taking resources from others. We’re just using the resources that are out there for us to use. It’s silly to say that because we also, we are part of the economy. So we do our fair part too, to pay our taxes and everything. So it’s not only that. It’s not to say that we’re taking from you, but it’s also from us. We’re trying to take advantages of all the resources, resources that should be available to us. So that’s all we really want, just an opportunity.

Marisa Wojcik:
Have you been able to save up in order to afford where you are now?

Julio Gumeta:
Yeah, I have two jobs that I’m working, two part-time jobs. It’s tough. I still have to pay some of my bills. And I live with my parents, so it makes it easier. But if I didn’t, it would be impossible for me to go to school. So, I’m lucky that I have really supportive parents that just allow me to live in. I mean, I still have to pay for my home expenses. But it definitely helps, living with them. But if I didn’t, I would have to, you know, get a third job or something. And that’s what a lotta Dreamers have to do. A lotta Dreamers have to live with their parents, have to work two jobs, three jobs, whatever they have to do to pay for their education because they know it’s worth it for their future. It’s one of the biggest obstacles we have to face is that we have to do this alone basically, with our families. And the ones of us that are lucky enough to have supportive families, we do have an advantage. It shouldn’t be like that. It should be that we should all have the same opportunities. And the ones who deserve it, they’ll show it, and they’ll be able to advance forward. The ones who fail, obviously they won’t. But it shouldn’t be just because you were born here or not that an opportunity is opened up for you. It should be based on your skills and merit rather than just where you’re born.

Marisa Wojcik:
What can higher education give you in what you want to pursue and where you want to go with your career that you can’t do without it?

Julio Gumeta:
The first thing would be getting into UW-Milwaukee. Right now, it’s impossible. I can’t afford it. So that’ one thing that it would do. It would allow me to really chase the program I want with the resources that I really would rather have. It just opens up a lot of more opportunities for me ’cause I have an idea of having a second business after having my career. I want to save up and start a real estate development company. ‘Cause my neighborhood, Walker’s Point, it’s up-and-coming, really gentrified. There’s a lot of old houses that can be rebuilt. And it just would really benefit the community. And that’s what I want to do. UW-Milwaukee has more programs, in business and in technology, that MATC just does not have the resources to match, like the same quality of education that they do. It’s an unfortunate fact, but it’s a fact.

Marisa Wojcik:
Part of some of these proposals, which historically have always been killed in the Wisconsin State Legislature, would require a lot of different things. Like you had to live in Wisconsin for three years while going to high school, graduate from high school or an equivalency and also be seeking permanent resident status. So is permanent resident status an option for you? Is that something that is obtainable at some point?

Julio Gumeta:
For me, without marriage, no. It’s not something I can do. There is no pathway for me to get citizenship, not an easy one at least and not one that’s affordable to anyone. So there really is no option for Dreamers like me, for any Dreamers out there. We have no other options. This is the only way that we’re going to be able to further our education and have a better future is if we have some kind of legislative help. That’s the only way it’s going to happen. Otherwise we’re going to be struggling, struggling for our future. A lot less will make it if we don’t have in-state tuition. And this will really help us turn around our communities and help out our communities really. We’ve seen a lot of recent growth in the state. But it could be a lot more if we give Dreamers the opportunity to become who they want to be. There’s a lot that they can do. It’s a lot of untapped resource that if in-state tuition would pass, it would open a lot of doors for us. It would be great.

Marisa Wojcik:
For people that maybe don’t refer to undocumented immigrants as undocumented immigrants, maybe they say illegal aliens. What do you think people maybe don’t understand about you? What do you want people to know about you and what you would like to do with your career and as someone who’s grown up in Wisconsin that you think would make them better understand your story and where you’re coming from?

Julio Gumeta:
I just don’t like that term because no human is illegal. We’re just immigrants. That’s what it is. This country is a nation of immigrants. It was made up by immigrants. Throughout its history, there’s been many waves of immigrants and many waves of attacks towards them. And it’s something that. I’ve kind of gotten used to the term. But I prefer people use undocumented immigrant because it’s the term that it is. It’s what we are. I think what I want people to understand from my story is that my parents sacrificed a lot for me. I’m not going to give up on fighting for what I believe is right and for what I believe will help us all, not only us Dreamers but the whole state. Because I feel like this is my home away from home now. I’ve been living in the south side of Milwaukee for 17 years in the Walker’s Point neighborhood, all 17 years. So I feel like that I’ve grown up there. It’s my second home. So I definitely want to do something to give back to the community that I grew up in. This will allow us to do that.

Marisa Wojcik:
Well Julio, thank you so much for joining us and telling us your story.

Julio Gumeta:
Yeah, I’m happy to. Hopefully more people out there will learn how important in-state tuition is for us. Hopefully this will pass. Thank you for having me.

Marisa Wojcik:
For more from Here & Now, and Wisconsin Public Television, you can visit WPT.org, and thank you so much for joining us on Noon Wednesday.