Marisa Wojcik:

Welcome to Noon Wednesday, I’m Marisa Wojcik a multimedia journalist for Here & Now on PBS Wisconsin, that’s right, we are now PBS Wisconsin, a little bit of an update for you. Today we are talking about domestic violence and homelessness and where that intersection occurs. 87% of domestic violence victims in Wisconsin are seeking housing resources when they’re reaching out for help. Milwaukee County has recently allocated $100,000 for additional funds for emergency shelters for people fleeing domestic violence situations, but statewide a package of bills addressing homelessness has domestic violence victims potentially locked out. So joining us to talk about this intersection and a little bit more is Abby Swetz, a policy and systems analyst for End Domestic Abuse Wisconsin and thank you for being here.

Abby Swetz:

Thank you for having me.

Marisa Wojcik:

I was looking at some End Domestic Abuse Wisconsin materials and you’ve identified access to safe and affordable housing as a really critical issue for people experiencing domestic violence. Do we know how many people are experiencing domestic violence and homelessness together?

Abby Swetz:

Together. Yes, sort of. So one of the things that’s tough is that it is difficult to get great data about these things because it is such a tender topic. But we do know nationally based on some surveys and some academic research that 80% of homeless women with children identify having been a domestic violence victim at some point in their lives. And another study looked at about 50% of all women who are homeless say that it is because of domestic violence. So this is a very significant intersection. I would also say that, what you just did as an intro is fabulous, but I wanna correct one quick percentage. And that is that 87% of the requests for help, about domestic violence, so a survivor calling a helpline or survivor going to a shelter, 87% of those requests that are unmet are for housing.

Marisa Wojcik:

Okay.

Abby Swetz:

So it’s specifically, it’s a need that is so significant that the vast majority of the requests specifically that are just not able to be filled are the ones that are about homelessness. And that has a lot to do with the lack of affordable housing and so many other intersections that we can talk about today.

Marisa Wojcik:

Sure. And Milwaukee County has announced plans for this additional housing for people. Can you walk us through what happens in a situation where someone experiencing domestic violence has to seek these emergency resources?

Abby Swetz:

Absolutely. So I think the first thing I wanna say is that I wanna make it really clear that domestic violence cuts across class, race, all different kinds of identities, sexuality, gender identity. So I’m not saying that only people in poverty are experiencing domestic violence, we wanna make that very clear. But the intersection of domestic violence and financial abuse has a huge impact on whether or not someone who is fleeing domestic violence needs services for housing. And that has a lot to do with very significant factors about the cycle of domestic violence, the cycle of power and control that abusers use. So one example would be we often think of domestic violence being about physical abuse or emotional abuse or sexual abuse. But that financial control plays into all of those sometimes. So, potentially a domestic violence survivor who is seeking housing because they are fleeing that situation might have a poor credit history because of the way the abuser has controlled finances. Or might have evictions on the record that would lead to potential housing discrimination, but the evictions are due to the abuser things like many, many police calls or property damage because of the abuser and not because of the person fleeing that situation, but these things will still follow that person as a record. And so these are some of the barriers that survivors face when looking for housing and also some of the reasons they need to, right? Some of the other things that factor into these dynamics of power and control are things that we don’t necessarily again think of when we think of domestic violence, things like loss of steady employment because of need to miss work because of stressors or even stalking at employment by the abuser. So, of course loss of employment can factor into homelessness and all of these things really combine in a sort of vicious cycle.

Marisa Wojcik:

And so those are both, long-term effects but there’s also just the immediate need for emergency shelter. Let’s say for example, someone in Dane County is needing emergency shelter overnight.

Abby Swetz:

Mm-hmm

Marisa Wojcik:

Are there a huge amount of resources of where they can turn to for day of emergency shelter or are those pretty limited?

Abby Swetz:

It’s a complicated question, but, well, no, it’s a complicated answer. It’s very important question. So, what I would say is that in Dane County and then also in Wisconsin in general where we have around 45 domestic violence shelters that are part of our coalition and in Dane County, that’s domestic abuse intervention services or days. The thing is almost all of those shelters have reported being at capacity at some point in the year. And that means that there’s a wait list and of course by definition a wait list means that there is not immediate help with housing. That doesn’t mean there aren’t immediate services, there are even more programs in our state around 76 that are a part of our coalition that offer non-residential services and those are incredibly important and those have to do with case management and financial literacy and things like that. But, and obviously mental health and potential substance abuse help. But when it comes to that immediate moment we know in domestic violence studies that the immediate leaving is the most dangerous time for a domestic violence survivor to be leaving, right? It’s the most dangerous time for them. And we also know because End Abuse publishes the domestic violence homicide report that that is a huge potential dangerous situation, which I’m saying over and over, but I’m trying to hammer it home. So, the answer to your question is there are resources, but there are never enough resources. There are some pretty scary statistics about the State of Wisconsin that are reflected in the entire country. I’m not saying we are unique in this at all, but when you look at a study that’s done by the national organization that we are a part of to end domestic violence, you can see that they do a study called the Point-in-Time study that does sort of a snapshot of services and availability of things like housing and nonresidential services at any given time by snapshotting one day. And so in one day in 2018, that statistic that 87% of the people calling for help that the need was unmet in Wisconsin, that’s where that statistic comes from. The other thing to keep in mind is that between 2017 and 2018 a year span, but six months in each, we know that about 7,200 people in Wisconsin were accessing shelter services and that includes women, men, children, non-binary identities when it boils down to need however, we also know in that range of time, there are around 24,000 calls for requests of services that have to do with housing and shelter. That doesn’t mean those are individual calls, those might be doubled-up calls, those might be repeated calls. But it’s just such a stark number when you look at 7,200 people in services, but 24,000 requests. The other thing that I always think of there is that the 7,200 people involve a lot of children, of course, which is very important that these people are safe. The 24,000 number does not involve children calling. Those are only adults, right? So, and so the 24,000 number, while it does have duplicates also represents even more people who are affected because we know there’s so many family dynamics here too.

Marisa Wojcik:

Sure, sure. And, so all of those things sound like a really complex matrix of trying to understand need. Do we understand what capacity Wisconsin has, are we equipped to address the need and the correlation between homelessness or the even the causation of homelessness and domestic abuse

Abby Swetz:

We’re working on it, I guess is the best answer I have. I think one of the things that is important about End Abuse in the organization I work for is that we’re really trying to be a voice for survivors in the state. And we know from things like a project we’re working on right now called the housing research project that involves interviews with service providers. So people are working in domestic violence shelters or programs and with survivors themselves that their number one need is affordable, accessible, long-term housing. So as much as shelter is incredibly important and yes, please, I would love there to be more resources. We also need to think shelter is not permanent by definition and the average day is around 40 ish days and that fluctuates based on need and family and location. But the question is what’s next? Right? Of course we don’t want someone to feel pressured to go back to an abuser because there is no other available option. So that transitional housing is where we’ve really need some more work in the state and in the country. But I think it’s relatively common knowledge that Wisconsin is really lacking an affordable, accessible housing. We think of it sort of as a city thing, Madison and Milwaukee. But actually in rural areas as well, looking for rent, housing it’s just rare and that’s a problem. Specifically for domestic violence survivors is because while looking for affordable, accessible housing is difficult for any individual, when you add in the layers that I was just talking about, sort of like the layers of oppression based on that experience, but also potentially based on those identities and the specific requirements for someone, the needs of someone for safety, who is a domestic violence survivor, the needs for this housing to be located near public transportation, possibly because those financial things I was just talking about often mean don’t have a car. There’s just a lot of layers. So when you say it’s complex, couldn’t agree more. And I think one of the things we need to start really reframing when we talk about domestic violence survivors is this long-term attainability of housing as opposed to just shelter. And I don’t wanna say just as if it’s not significant, but that it’s not enough.

Marisa Wojcik:

Sure. So the State Assembly passed a series of bills that extend a lot of grants and further a lot of grants for homelessness, just broadly. And, they don’t necessarily address domestic violence or domestic abuse survivors specifically, and they’re currently in the Senate and kind of looks like they’re not really gonna be going anywhere.

Abby Swetz:

Yeah.

Marisa Wojcik:

But there are areas in there that you said you identified as maybe, because they’re not even identifying DV victims, it’s potentially even kind of doing a little bit more harm than good sometimes. Can you explain that?

Abby Swetz:

Absolutely. So I think the first thing I would say is that more funding for homelessness resources and housing resources is a good thing and I fully support that. One of the things that people don’t realize is that, one of the grants we’re talking about, the state shelter subsidy grant specifically does not provide subsidy for domestic violence shelters, only for other shelters. It is specifically banned in the language of the original grant, which since this would be increasing that grant, that would also not help domestic violence shelters. And that’s a problem. So much of our funding is always in flux because of the nature of politics and government, but it would be very helpful if we could have more funding that could be available to us. The SSSG can provide up to 50% of a shelter’s, not income, sorry,

Marisa Wojcik:

Budget?

Abby Swetz:

Budget, thank you. Up to 50% of a shelter is budget and that is just not available to domestic violence shelters. So getting rid of that band just line item thing that would be very helpful. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are some laws on the books in Wisconsin that are designed to help protect domestic violence survivors looking for housing, things like, some protections in leases, including language of not discriminating against housing for survivors based on survivor status, sort of as a protected class. And I am very glad about that but the problem there is that, like I mentioned, because of financial abuse, so many survivors have evictions on their records that because landlords don’t have to rent to someone because of eviction records, the fact that they are a survivor, that survivor status is inextricably linked with the evictions, but it’s kind of a loophole for the evictions to be the reason housing is denied versus survivors status. And so it’s those complicated interactions that makes this so difficult, which is why I would also say as much as funding, yes, please. I would also just say that a more heightened awareness of the dynamics of domestic violence would be incredibly helpful. The kinds of things like trainings or collaborations between landlords and domestic violence shelters to create that glide path between shelter to housing that’s more permanent would be incredibly helpful. And as the policy and systems analyst, the policy part we were talking about, the systems part is more that interaction collaboration, so it’s something End Abuse is really trying to make some change with, but it’s complicated.

Marisa Wojcik:

Has that generally been getting better in Wisconsin, has legislation become more sensitive to looking at something through, the scope of potential domestic violence victims or is that something that still needs improvement because policy can just be so complicated when it’s trying to be applied to large populations people?

Abby Swetz:

That’s a great point, both. So I would say that one of the things that’s really exciting about working at End Abuse is that we get to work with all legislators. Because domestic violence survivors, like I said, it affects all class or race, all kinds of people. We’re really able to have important conversations with any legislator in our assembly and Senate, which is really exciting. The problem exists in terms of housing, because a lot of the things that we’re talking about have to do with tenant protections and tenant protections have been sort of whittled away recently in Wisconsin in the past about 10 years. And so that’s an example of a policy that is not about domestic survivors, but very much affects domestic survivors with unintended consequences. It’s not the kind of law that is designed to discriminate against survivors, but it does, right? And so that’s something that we’re working on as well. It’s interesting when we think about what kind of change we wanna make in policy, so little of our policy is domestic violence survivor-specific, in the state of Wisconsin. I don’t know how many laws say DV in them, but it’s not all of them. But all laws affect domestic violence survivors often in disparate ways. So when you say a law is created and then affects a swath of many people, it’s just, it’s our job at End Abuse to always have this lens of a domestic violence survivor and that’s where it gets so complicated, but so important.

Marisa Wojcik:

Abby, thank you so much for joining us.

Abby Swetz:

Thank you.

Marisa Wojcik:

For more from Here & Now and PBS Wisconsin, you can visit pbswisconsin.org and thank you so much for joining us on Noon Wednesday.