Frederica Freyberg:

So a closer look now at how repeated flooding and storms have pounded Bayfield County roads in particular, and how a new bill before the U.S. Senate may pave the way for more than temporary fixes. The “Rebuilding Stronger Infrastructure Act” is co-sponsored by Wisconsin Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin and Republican Senator Mike Braun of Indiana. The bill would change the way federal emergency funds are dispersed. Currently, the Federal Highway Emergency Relief Program provides money to cities and counties to rebuild damaged infrastructure. However, the funds are restricted to rebuilding to original specifications. Baldwin and Braun argue that especially with the higher frequency of storms because of climate change patterns, this restriction simply sets up structures to get washed out again. The legislation would fund improving structures to withstand storm damage instead of just replacing them as is. Last month in a bipartisan vote, the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works passed larger infrastructure legislation that includes the Baldwin/Braun bill. It now heads to the full Senate. Northern Wisconsin officials gathered with Senator Baldwin for a recent public roundtable on the new bill. Bayfield County Highway Commissioner Paul Johanik was among them. He joins us now out of Ashland. Thank you very much for being here.

Paul Johanik:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Before we get to this proposed legislation, first tell us what your county has dealt with in terms of infrastructure and road damage over the past several years.

Paul Johanik:

Well, in the last three years, we’ve had two major flood events. The first one did not affect the whole county, basically the southeast corner. The one last year affected two thirds of the county. We had over a million dollars in damage to county roads.

Frederica Freyberg:

And describe —

Paul Johanik:

It all falls —

Frederica Freyberg:

Describe some of that damage.

Paul Johanik:

We have 14 county roads, nine of them were damaged, seven of them were closed off completely because they were washed out, and a couple of those roads, we dealt with two years prior to that with the same type of flooding.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you ever seen anything like that in your job and you’ve been there for many years?

Paul Johanik:

No, you know, the 100 year, 500 year floods seem to be happening more often. To plan for future, which more than likely it’s going to happen again, that’s where this bill would pave the way and save taxpayers money.

Frederica Freyberg:

Absolutely, because have you ever repaired culverts or roadway cleavages only to have them washed out again?

Paul Johanik:

Yes, absolutely. To fix a road, and that’s our main concern after an event, is to get the road open as soon as possible. Knowing we have a problem in that area to replace, say, a culvert that’s a 30-inch culvert to handle the water with a 36 or a 48-inch culvert when the road is washed out, would save money instead of putting the 30-inch or 24-inch back in place and a month later, after mitigation, being able to replace with a 48-inch culvert. We’re doing the same job twice.

Frederica Freyberg:

Right. So how strapped is your county for money to repair and replace such damage repeatedly?

Paul Johanik:

Well, you know, we can’t afford — we’re fortunate we were able to fund the repairs, but that’s not always going to be the case. If we can solve the problem the first time, that money could be used elsewhere.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because there are clearly competing costs in counties. Everything from health and human services, again, to, you know, your highway department. So how does that kind of push and pull work?

Paul Johanik:

Everybody’s grasping for the same pot of money. And you know, my concern being roads, but other departments are saying, okay, we need the money here too, and I understand that. So we’re looking for the taxpayers, we have to look out for their well-being too.

Frederica Freyberg:

So describe again how the bill from Senator Baldwin that would, again, direct the federal highway administration to factor in resiliency, as they call it, in disaster recovery grants to local governments, how would that help Bayfield County and other counties?

Paul Johanik:

If we knew of an area in the county on a county road that continually washes out water over the road because the structure is too small, we could maybe address that situation ahead of time, before a major rain event, and then be able to handle that water and keep our road in place.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now you were at that roundtable as we discussed that Senator Baldwin attended to hear about this. Was that well attended and what were other officials saying?

Paul Johanik:

It was — you know, basically everybody had the same consensus. Ashland County and Bayfield County were represented there. And everybody said the same thing. It really doesn’t make sense to do the same job twice. If we do it right the first time, maybe we will not have this problem again.

Frederica Freyberg:

After being hit multiple times by what people are calling 100-year or 500-year rain events and flooding events, what is it like for you when storms are in the forecast?

Paul Johanik:

It’s a little bothering. It doesn’t seem like we get a nice gentle rain anymore. Everything are the hard downpours. So you don’t get any — the ground taking in, vegetation taking in any of the moisture, it’s just runoff. Our storms seem to be more — harder storms with downpours.

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah, tough stuff. All right. Well, Paul Johanik, Bayfield County highway commissioner, thank you very much for joining us and good luck up there.

Paul Johanik:

Thank you. We hope for sunshine.

Frederica Freyberg:

Absolutely.