Frederica Freyberg:

Outside of military force, President Biden is meeting with the group of seven leaders to discuss further economic sanctions against Russia and President Vladimir Putin. Our next guest comes from an economic background and has been voting for measures to apply pressure on Russia’s pocketbook. Democratic Congressman from the 3rd District, Ron Kind, joins us now from La Crosse. Congressman, thanks very much for being here.

Ron Kind:

Hi, Fred. Glad to be with you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your reaction as this war grinds into its second month now?

Ron Kind:

Well, I think Vladimir Putin has made perhaps the biggest strategic mistake of the 21st century. He was expecting a divided Ukraine, a divided Europe, a divided NATO and a divided United States and instead he got exactly the opposite. I commend President Biden for unifying the free world in short order to stand up against Putin’s illegal aggression, but it was also helpful having a very courageous, strong leader in President Zelensky, leading the Ukrainian people and what we’ve seen from them these last few weeks. So we don’t know what the end game looks like but I think it’s going to look very bad for Putin and his Russian military.

Frederica Freyberg:

President Biden said we would respond in kind if Russia deployed chemical weapons. What’s your response to that?

Ron Kind:

A little strategic ambiguity is not a bad thing in this type of situation. We made it clear that that’s stepping over a very dangerous line and there would be severe consequences. I don’t think Vladimir Putin wants to test us on that. I don’t think he’s going to be happy with our reaction or the rest of the world’s reaction if he goes that far.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you think this could blow into World War III?

Ron Kind:

I certainly hope not. I mean, a no-fly zone would be World War III, and I think that’s why President Biden has been clear that he’s not going to have the U.S. implement a no-fly zone. And besides, there are better military tools we’re giving the Ukrainian army to control the air space, from the stinger and the S300s right now. Plus they’re more mobile. These jets from Poland, you need landing strips, you need crew, you need fuel lines, you need trained pilots, and Russia does have a very effective anti-air defense system. So I think what we’re doing now is about the best we can do to arm the Ukrainian army to knock some of the Russian planes and helicopters out of the sky.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the other press on the part of the U.S. and NATO allies is on increasing sanctions, to ban things like armored vehicle parts, Russian oil and gas, freezing Russian assets and seizing these oligarchs’ yachts. How effective are these kinds of sanctions?

Ron Kind:

You know, it’s been a threefold response, not only providing military and humanitarian aid to the Ukrainian people and the free world is standing up and doing that, but the unprecedented economic sanctions that President Biden led and put into place. I was in London a few weeks ago negotiating the high-tech export ban on Russia. Think computer software, telecommunications equipment, microchips and microprocessors. We know the world runs on microchips today. This is going to take a very heavy toll on the Russian economy, and especially the Russian military that needs that and spare parts. The big missing ingredient right now is the energy resources that Russia supplies western Europe. And we’re hard at work, in fact, President Biden just announced a major liquefied natural gas agreement with Europe. They’re dependent on 40% of their natural gas from Russia. I believe this new agreement moving forward is going to reduce that dependency, not just in the short term, but permanently, and again, that was a huge miscalculation by Putin in this war.

Frederica Freyberg:

Can these sanctions be escalated even more?

Ron Kind:

Yeah, they’re taking a toll already, Fred. The ruble is in a free fall. They’re quadrupling interest rates right now. The stock market has been closed for weeks. Inflation is exploding out of control. They have turned themselves into an international pariah. The real question is what’s China’s response? They’ve been ambiguous about which way they’re leaning. Given their close economic ties to the U.S. and European Union, I don’t think China wants to side with an international war criminal, Putin and Russia, at this time.

Frederica Freyberg:

Not to mention a collapsed economy.

Ron Kind:

Yeah, that’s very real and unfortunately, that is happening. And Putin is doing everything he can to turn the Russian economy into North Korea. That’s not a good place to be.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, the more than 3 1/2 million Ukrainians have fled their country and the U.S. has now pledged to allow about 100,000 of them to come here. In your mind, is that enough? Is that welcoming enough on the part of the U.S.?

Ron Kind:

You know, it’s a very good start as far as 100,000 refugees coming to the United States, those would be paired up with existing family members who are already here, so it should be a quick vetting process. But we’re hearing that most of the Ukrainian people want to stay close to Ukraine. They want to return to their homes as quickly as possible. As you know, it was the women and children that left, and the men are left behind to fight. I don’t think they want to be separated that far right now, so trying to keep them as close with the humanitarian aid that we’re providing the neighboring nations, I think that’s the right approach right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

While we have you here, before you step down from your seat, how difficult do you think it will be for Democrats to hold the third?

Ron Kind:

You know, I think overall, the democratic message is going to be very strong, very powerful. We’ve done our best to help get out of this COVID crisis the last two years. I can’t imagine where we would be if the Republicans were in charge and denying vaccination and face masks and protecting people. We have a Build America Back Better plan with infrastructure, broadband, healthcare and education. Republicans are offering nothing, other than big lie election conspiracy theories and fraudulent accounts that don’t exist. I just caution people to be careful how they exercise this vote this year. There’s one major party, the Republican Party, who believes that only — the only legitimate election outcome is the one that they win, and that’s a very dangerous place for our democracy to be right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

Congressman Ron Kind, thanks very much for joining us.

Ron Kind:

My pleasure.