Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin prisons are busting at the seams. Nearly 6,000 inmates over capacity. With population steadily on the rise. At the same time, the most recent state budget funds a 14% increase in starting pay for correctional officers in efforts to fill vacancies among guards. Add to that work to replace the troubled Wisconsin youth prisons, and it’s a full plate for the new Department of Corrections Secretary-designee Kevin Carr. We talked with him at his office. In terms of prison population, what explains the prison system being more than 30% over inmate capacity?

Kevin Carr:

I think there’s a number of factors that go into our current prison population. Most notably, the current sentencing structure in the state of Wisconsin. “Truth in sentencing” has put us in a position where many of the people that are currently serving sentences in prison don’t have the opportunity for parole. And that, I think, is one of the more significant factors that has led to our increased population.

Frederica Freyberg:

But at the same time, you need more correctional officers. How many more?

Kevin Carr:

Well, right now, we have about 760 vacancies in the Department of Corrections. Our overall vacancy rate including medical staff, teachers, social workers, administrative staff and security staff is about 16%.

Frederica Freyberg:

And what is that number like? Is that a crisis?

Kevin Carr:

Well, you know, it’s certainly a challenge for us every day. I would describe it not as a crisis but certainly a serious situation.

Frederica Freyberg:

How well have overall raises and incentive pay to work at the max security institutions worked to attract officers?

Kevin Carr:

Well, it has worked in our opinion very well to attract new officers in the door. We currently — our last two academy classes have had approximately 70 individuals in the classes. And that is more than there had been for any of the classes in the previous few years. And the majority of those folks have applied to work at the maximum security institutions that were impacted by the $5 add-on.

Frederica Freyberg:

In terms of overcrowding and understaffing, how dangerous does it make for both inmates and staff?

Kevin Carr:

It certainly does make things less safe to have staff shortages. And it impacts the ability for us to provide services and programming to those we care for our facilities, but I have to credit the staff at our facilities. Our correctional officers and staff there do a terrific job under very trying circumstances. And although we have a great investment in our staff made by the governor’s budget where he put in $36 million of new money towards paying the wages of security staff at our facilities. It’s a step in the right direction, but there’s more work to be done in that area in order to pay our folks what they deserve to be paid.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the issue of rising numbers of inmates, several reports focus on what advocates call crimeless revocation, those being parole revocations with no new convictions that represent more than 35% of all new prison admissions. To reduce the numbers as you know, Governor Evers said he would look at possibly halting re-incarceration for rule violations. How complicated could that be?

Kevin Carr:

Well, it is complicated and from the day that I was appointed as the secretary of corrections, my very first day on the job, I tasked my Division of Community Corrections to come up with a plan to address that specific area of crimeless revocations and how we can do much better in that area.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would it take a different kind of method for reintegration following prison — you know, getting out of prison?

Kevin Carr:

Well, you’re talking about re-entry efforts, I think. And the governor has put in our budget additional dollars for re-entry programs such as our “OARS” program – Opening Avenues for Re-entry Success and job centers that are located in our facilities that help make those that we care for in our facilities ready to be employed upon release from our facilities. But I would also add, the governor and I both believe very strongly that in order for us to have the maximum effectiveness in reducing recidivism, we have to provide more programs and supports for those that are on supervision in our communities. Not only on the back end when they come out of our facilities, but there needs to be more programming in general in mental health, drug treatment and job training on the front end that would keep people from coming in to the system in the first place.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is there any way to reduce the prison population by 50%, which Governor Evers says he is still committed to?

Kevin Carr:

Well, the governor has not specifically told me, Kevin, here’s the keys, let 50% of the people out in a certain amount of time. The governor and I have had many conversations about how to reduce the prison population. The first and foremost thing that Governor Evers has insisted on is that we keep public safety first and for most in our minds. And that any inmate population reductions that will occur will occur in a very thoughtful, deliberate manner.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to the troubled youth correctional facilities, what is the status of when those will close and be replaced with these regional facilities?

Kevin Carr:

Well, there was a trailer bill that was just passed in the budget for Act 185 that extended the deadline to July 1st, 2021 as to when Lincoln Hills will be closed. We’re going to do everything that we can to meet that deadline, but of course the governor and I are committed to closing Lincoln Hills as soon as possible and when we have appropriate places to place our youth.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the overall prison population, how concerning is the black incarceration rate, at 12 times the rate of whites, putting Wisconsin second in the nation for racial disparity?

Kevin Carr:

It’s very concerning to the governor and I. We are looking at ways that we can increase the level of fairness for all persons in the state of Wisconsin that are involved in the criminal justice system.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Kevin Carr, thanks very much.

Kevin Carr:

You’re welcome.