Here & Now

Johnson on Biden Investigation, Ginsburg

Frederica Freyberg:

The long-awaited report from Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson’s investigation into Hunter Biden came out this week. It did not find that the position the former vice president’s son held on the board of a Ukrainian energy company influenced U.S. government policy, saying the extent to which his role affected U.S. policy is not clear. It found Hunter Biden’s position on the board was “awkward” for U.S. officials pushing an anti-corruption agenda in Ukraine. President Donald Trump’s efforts to get Ukraine to launch a similar investigation were key to his impeachment. Senator Johnson joins us tonight on this and other matters and, senator, thanks very much for being here.

Ron Johnson:

Hello Frederica. Hope you’re doing well.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you. And you as well. Now, you call this a good government oversight investigation that was stymied by deep state officials at the State Department. Couldn’t it be that Hunter Biden’s awkward employment just didn’t influence U.S. policy?

Ron Johnson:

One reason I’m saying that we have been frustrated by people in the State Department is we still don’t even have close to all the documents. So at some point in time you have to say, okay, we’re going to end this — we’ve got to do a cut-off and we need to provide the American people what we’ve already found out as we continue to investigate. So we’re still digging into this. But I wouldn’t agree with the people’s assessment that there’s nothing new here. There’s all kinds of new information and it goes way beyond Ukraine. Now, remember, we never sought to target the Bidens and make them the principal objects of our investigations. Their actions, as you properly described, George Kent said it made it awkward for every U.S. official that was trying to push an anticorruption agenda in Ukraine. Their action setting up — in the span of 28 days, just two months after the Revolution of Dignity, which is all about ridding Ukraine of corruption, their action setting up this glaring conflict of interest with Hunter Biden, his business partner on the board of a thoroughly corrupt oil company owned by thoroughly corrupt odious oligarch, as George Kent said, they put them in the crosshairs so to speak. And what we found then as we tried to unravel financial dealings is the financial web with the $3.5 million payment from the former wife of the former mayor of Moscow, a Moscow billionaire, who probably got her billions through corruption. We found an intricate web of cash flow between Hunter and his business and Chinese nationals that have connections to the Chinese government as well as the past relations with the People’s Liberation Army. So our report really raises far more questions than it really answers. But I would dispute the fact that we didn’t find some real problems in terms of that conflict of interest in terms of how it frustrated and was awkward for people trying to push an anti-corruption agenda in Ukraine.

Frederica Freyberg:

And that full report as well as the Democratic committee members’ report can be found online. Meanwhile senator, the pandemic ranges on. Wisconsin, its rising case number in the crosshairs. A second relief bill is at a partisan impasse over how generous it should be. Do you support another round of $1200 stimulus checks or money for cities and states, for example?

Ron Johnson:

We already passed more than $3 trillion in COVID financial relief and I voted for that. We had to make sure that markets wouldn’t seize and people through no fault of their own, their businesses were shutting down, they were losing their jobs, needed financial relief. The fact of the matter is we still have hundreds of billions of that that haven’t been spent, haven’t even been obligated. So I supported what Republicans worked on long and hard over the August recess, a more targeted bill, which would have extended unemployment relief, $300 per week, increase PPP $100 billion to help schools reopen, billions of dollars for vaccines for testing for childcare but Democrats just said no. They refuse to take yes for an answer. They have to have everything they want. It’s either their way or the highway. It’s very unfortunate. I mean Republicans put forth a responsible targeted relief package. I don’t know why Democrats wouldn’t take it. It’s like if I go up to you Frederica and say give me 200 bucks. And you generously say, well, I don’t have 200, but I’ll give you $100. I just walk away stomping. You know, if makes no sense that they wouldn’t take yes for an answer and provide that kind of relieve for the American public.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction, senator, to the charging decision in the death of Breonna Taylor in Kentucky?

Ron Johnson:

Well, that is our judicial system. I don’t agree with every judicial system that comes down the pike. I’m not in the grand jury. I don’t have all the information. What I do know is we are a country noted for abiding by the rule of law, not mob rule. And what we are starting to see is people just rejecting the process and rule of law, not waiting for definitive answers, leaping to conclusions, public officials stoking the fires. We just had a hearing yesterday on U.S. threats and most of the testimony, most of the questioning, was about what I consider right now the greatest threat to this nation, which is mob rule. Almost 570 protests have turned into riots. This is highly concerning because we are moving in the direction of rioting and anarchy as opposed to the rule of law. Very troubling.

Frederica Freyberg:

And this important note, senator. President Trump is expected to announce his Supreme Court pick tomorrow. You voted to block a Barack Obama nominee in 2016 six months before the election, saying people should vote first. Now if you’re even 40 days before an election you don’t want to wait. Why does the argument that Republicans control the Senate change the ‘let the American people have a voice’ position you took in 2016?

Ron Johnson:

Because back in 2016, we had divided government, Democratic president, Republican Senate. It was a 1-1 tie. So we said let the American people break the tie. Let them chose. Right now we don’t have a 1-1 tie. We have 2-0 situation and the American people did speak. In 2016 they elected President Trump who had a list, by the way, of his judicial nominees. And he’s followed that list. They’re excellent jurists. They’re judges. They are going to apply the law, not alter it. The American people also gave a Republican Senate a majority in 2016 plus we increase our numbers in 2018. So they’ve spoken. And by the way, this is precedent. This is the norm, where we’ve had a judicial vacancy in an election year when its divided government, the president nominates. The Senate has basically rejected and not confirmed. Where we have unified government, the president nominate and the Senate has confirmed. And we’re just following that precedent, that norm. It’s Democrats that have consistently broken precedent and norms starting with borking Robert Bork, Justice Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, and Harry Reid’s master stroke unfortunate where he used a nuclear option and took away the filibuster of these types of appointments. All we’ve done is follow Harry Reid’s precedent. It was unfortunate he really harmed the Senate the way he did.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Senator Johnson, thanks for joining us.

Ron Johnson:

Have a great day.