Frederica Freyberg:
A big week at the state capitol, as this week Republicans rejected every single building project in Governor Evers $2.5 billion capitol budget, including about a billion worth of projects slated for the UW System and money for new juvenile prisons. Republicans on the State Building Commission voted against sending the spending items to the Legislature’s Budget Committee, an unprecedented move. It means that that committee will work out a budget without the recommendations of the Building Commission. Governor Evers called the move disappointing, to say the least. He accused the Republicans and the legislature of playing politics and not doing what’s best for the state. And then this. Thursday, a Dane County judge struck down laws passed during the lame duck session in the final days of the Walker administration. Those laws limited the governor’s power and among other things, kept the governor and attorney general from removing Wisconsin from the federal lawsuit challenging the Affordable Care Act. Almost immediately following the ruling, Governor Evers instructed the Department of Justice to do just that. Today, in an attempt to put on the brakes, Republicans filed for an emergency stay in the Third District Court of Appeals. We take up these matters now with Wisconsin Secretary of Administration Joel Brennan, who joins us from Milwaukee. And, boy, Im breathless, Secretary, but thanks for joining us.

Joel Brennan:
Thank you. It’s been an active week in Madison and around the state, that’s for sure.

Frederica Freyberg:
So these fast-breaking developments in this court case, the Republicans’ appeal, not unexpected, but if granted, where does that leave Governor Evers at this point?

Joel Brennan:
Well, I think there are going to be — continually there’s going to be ground that’s going to continue to shift. I think what’s important for everybody here is that what we have done in the last 24 hours is kind of returned to a sense of normalcy. What happened in December is really what was the disruption. And now we’re moving back to the way things have been for a long period of time and the way that the governor is looking at appointments and the way that he’s looking at these things legislatively. All of those things are a return. The disruption is what happened between December and now. Undoubtedly because some of the actions that have been taken today and will continue, those grounds will continue to shift in the next several days or the coming weeks and months.

Frederica Freyberg:
But leading up to the appeal, what was your reaction to Judge Niess’ ruling?

Joel Brennan:
Well, I think that the governor and the people in the administration were not surprised by this. And I think what the judge did yesterday, what a federal judge had done previously, was to make sure the people understand that this was an overreach from the legislature and that’s an opinion that was shared by a large amount of a majority of the citizens of the state of Wisconsin as well. So I think the governor and everybody associated with the administration understands that what this is is an affirmation that the people in the legislature were not happy with the election results in November of 2018 and they’ve taken kind of unprecedented steps to try to undo or thwart the will of the people. I think these steps have been things that have brought balance back into the conversation.

Frederica Freyberg:
Quick action on the part of the administration to remove Wisconsin from the ACA lawsuit. What is the status of that, in the midst of this appeal particularly?

Joel Brennan:
Well, that action was taken immediately yesterday and that action was taken based on the decision that was made yesterday. So the attorney general had moved forward with that. So that’s an affirmative step that has been taken by the state yesterday and will continue to move forward.

Frederica Freyberg:
So they made that move but does that mean that Wisconsin is right now, today, not a part of that lawsuit or is there some kind of process that needs to work out over the coming days?

Joel Brennan:
Well, the attorney general took the initial steps yesterday. I believe there is a process in place and that this will work itself out in the coming days related to that step that the attorney general has taken.

Frederica Freyberg:
Okay. Now to Republicans’ rejection of every single project included in Governor Evers’ capitol budget. What is the administration’s response to that?

Joel Brennan:
Well, I think these are — the two issues we’re talking about are almost the same issue. It’s that the Republican leadership in the legislature was really unhappy with the results of November, 2018 and they’ve been willing to take unprecedented steps, unconstitutional steps to try to thwart the will of the people from November of 2018. In the case of the Building Commission, there is a well-honored 50-year tradition that the process is that the Building Commission spends months, the staff spends months putting together a list of projects, prioritized from the different agencies, prioritized from the university, submits those to the Building Commission. The Building Commission votes on those affirmatively, sends those forward to the legislature. That’s what didn’t happen this week. 300 times, four Republican legislators voted against the will of — those projects that have something to do with public safety, that have to do with veterans, that have to do with cancer research. Any number of issues, they stood in the way of time and time again.

Frederica Freyberg:
But for their part Republicans called the proposed $2 billion in borrowing “unrealistic and unsustainable.” What about that persuasion?

Joel Brennan:
Well, I think it’s interesting. The speaker, Speaker Vos and Majority Leader Fitzgerald were in those roles in 2013. And if you go back and you look at Governor Walker’s budget in 2013 and what the total amount of borrowing was, it was about 2.8% difference. 2.8% less than what the governor has proposed in this budget. If you go back to Tommy Thompsons last budget, if you go back to Scott McCallum’s only budget, those were both probably 10% to 15% higher if you look at it in terms of 2019 dollars than the borrowing that this governor has proposed. It’s less — I’ve heard them say that they — that this was something that they couldn’t stomach. I don’t think it’s something they can’t stomach. I think they don’t like the chef. And I think that’s the difference when it comes to these things.

Frederica Freyberg:
And yet Governor Evers’ capitol budget proposal is $1.5 billion over Governor Walker’s last capitol budget.

Joel Brennan:
Yeah. I think you should probably take a look at — and I think people would probably agree that some of the work that happened in Governor Walker’s last couple of terms should have a little bit of an asterisk next to it. In the biennial budget two budgets ago, he was getting ready to run for president of the United States so wanted to appeal to a conservative base around the country. In the next biennial budget, this was after he had had a disastrous campaign for president and was looking at running for re-election and so I think he was trying to appeal to others. During that time, the fact that there weren’t investments made in the 6700 state facilities and in the university system and things like that, there is an acknowledgment across the capitol that there’s pent-up demand for those things. Governor Evers’ investments are a return to and an acknowledgment that we do need to invest in those things.

Frederica Freyberg:
The largest chunk of Governor Ever’s capitol budget would go to the UW System, of which we should say WPT is a part. But where does the rejection of those items put those UW projects?

Joel Brennan:
Well, those projects come from a prioritized list that the UW System has amassed over the last couple of years, just as the other agency requests have done. As we submit this and as the legislature takes this up, my presumption is that they will look at those in the same priority order, that the challenge is that there’s an infrastructure in place at the Building Commission. There’s a staff that spends months doing all of the due diligence behind these things, making sure there’s thoughtful consideration of these things. By the legislature just taking these things up and maybe not acknowledging that, while I know there are talented people in the legislature, that same infrastructure, that same thoughtfulness doesn’t exist. So you wonder what is it that’s going to be the determining factor? Is it going to be politics instead of thoughtful, deep discussion of these things and ponderance? I think that’s the challenge. But make no mistake, the actions, the 300 times that these Republicans took no votes on these things, they put all that into question on issues having to do with life safety, having to do with public safety, having to do with the investment in the innovative arm of the state which really is the university system.

Frederica Freyberg:
We need to leave it there. Secretary Joel Brennan, thanks very much for joining us.

Joel Brennan:
Thanks very much for having me.