Here & Now

[percussive music] - Murv Seymour: Menkhu Ara Maat, Greg Doby, welcome to In Focus.

– Menkhu Ara Maat: Thank you for having us.

– Greg Doby: Thank you.

– Murv: Now, you guys are the curators of this incredible hip-hop exhibit called "Leading"-- is it "Leading Through the"-- - Greg: Lead Between... - Murv: "Lead Between the Rhymes."

I knew-- you know, you spend several days practicing that over and over.

[laughter] - Greg: That's okay.

- Then it becomes showtime, and then it's not where you need it to be.

– Greg: It's all right.

- But I love the name.

How'd you guys come up with it?

- Oh, you know, we were toying with the idea, and we had, like, a list of, like, 50 names.

Fifty names.

And I think, the last-- maybe the last one was "Lead Between the Rhymes" 'cause we didn't want-- all these other names was just no, no, no, no.

So, it just kind of, like, a process of elimination.

- Yeah, and I should point out, this is an exhibit that celebrates hip-hop in the state of Wisconsin.

- Mm-hmm.

- Including Madison, because, you know, when you think hip-hop, you think Wisconsin, right?

- Yes, absolutely!

- That's what I was thinking.

[laughter] - Not so much.

– Murv: No?

Not even just a little bit?

- Well, what we are bringing forth will kind of illuminate it in a way that it hasn't been celebrated before.

– Murv: Yeah, and this exhibit on display-- and by the time this airs, this thing will be packed up, more than likely someplace else.

But it's very fitting that it's in the Historical Society here, in the 50-year anniversary of hip-hop.

- Yeah.

– Murv: Why did you guys decide to bring things here?

- So, we-- it all started with a documentary story and a vision that Menkhu Ara had.

He wanted to tell the story of hip-hop.

And at the time, I was away from Madison.

I had moved away, and I was having the same-- I don't-- you know, I was just feeling like there should be kind of legacy or something.

And we had a mutual friend, and I told him, told the mutual friend about my story, and he just so happened to tell the mutual friend about his story.

And he was like, "You know what?

"Greg Doby got the same vision!

We should put y'all, put y'all together."

And so, that's what happened.

And then, he kind of took the reins.

– Murv: Yeah, and it's so interesting.

I'm a little older, a little ahead of you guys on age, but I remember-- I feel like-- I don't know.

There maybe should be a picture of me up in this exhibit somewhere 'cause I was walking down State Street in 1978 with a boom box on my hip... - We might have-- we might got you in one of these pictures.

– Murv: ...carrying that thing like a suitcase, [laughter] blasting "Planet Rock" or whatever it was at that time.

But it's interesting, like, living, you don't think about the fact that you're kind of living through this history that's gonna turn into something really, really big, because a lot of people didn't think hip-hop was gonna last.

- They didn't.

People thought it was a fad, but they were wrong.

- I'd love to get your insight on how did hip-hop make its way to Madison.

You know, because, you know, we think of Madison, we think of, you know, cheese and, you know, Badger sports, Badger football, that kind of stuff.

But how did hip-hop make its way to Madison?

- I think one of the people who was instrumental is Anne B. Richardson.

She's the first-- - Anne B!

I used to listen to her.

- WORT.

- Yes.

- Yeah.

- And so-- - And I'll give you credit because I never saw Anne B., never seen a picture of her ever in my entire life until I saw her in your documentary clip, in your trailer.

– Both: Yes.

- She was kind of like Bigfoot.

You know, you heard about it, but you never saw her.

- Yeah, she's still like that.

[laughter] - And I saw it and I said, "So, that's what Anne B. looks like.

Oh, wow."

- Yeah.

And so, kids in our community would stay up late at night, even though they were tired, just to record when she was gonna be on the radio.

So, she had a big impact.

And then movies like Wild Style, Beat Street, Breakin'.

Once hip-hop was shared nationwide, then I think that is the way that it started to affect Madison.

- Absolutely.

So, she was the queen.

She's the queen of hip-hop for Madison.

She introduced the whole world of hip-hop to this culture, to our community.

- It was the "Back Porch Radio."

That was her slogan.

Do you guys remember that?

- Yes, yes.

You know, and we would take the cassette tapes, one hand and the other, and then we would just make mixtapes.

– Murv: You know, you beat me to it.

[Greg laughs] I wanted to see how much you knew about it because we didn't have all the technology we have now to record stuff.

There was no YouTube.

There was no internet.

[chuckles] - No.

- And so, I remember, you know, she came on Friday nights.

I wanna say it was from 10: 00 until maybe like 1:00 A.M., something like that.

It may have even been 9: 00.

And, man, we'd get our boom boxes together.

And-- and we'd just wait.

- And it was a skill, trying to put them mixtapes together.

[laughs] - Murv: Yeah, because you wanted to do it where there was no breaks, because we had no way of editing that stuff.

- Right.

- You know, and you just wait for your favorite song to come on, and if you really were going all in, you had to do it without Anne B.

's voice being in it.

– Greg: Right.

- Because when you play that-- - You had to get your finger on that pause button right there.

[laughs] - Murv: So, that counts as part of hip-hop history, huh?

- Absolutely.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

- Now, take me through the exhibit in terms of how it was curated.

First of all, how many pieces in this exhibit?

Do you guys know?

Have you counted them, anybody?

- We have not counted 'cause this iteration is an expansion of our first installment.

So, this is the second installment.

So, we've increased it.

So, we have not counted the pieces.

And I think that might be intentional because we're gonna continue to expand the exhibit.

- And where do you get some of these-- I see boom boxes that look familiar to me.

I saw some cassette tapes, and I definitely know what those look like.

Young, young people today have no idea what that looks like.

- No.

And they come through the museum and you'll be like, "You know what that is?"

And they're like, "I don't know what that is."

And I go, "That's a Walkman!"

And then we have 'em touch the cassette and then they put it in there and, you know, and they listen, and it's exciting.

It was amazing to see, you know, them light up and hear, like, "Oh, this thing brings music!"

And, you know-- - No, I love that-- I love that we used to have a little case for the cassettes.

You know, you put 'em in and you could walk around, you know, and then you open it up and you only got, like, two cassettes in there.

- Mm-hmm.

- You know?

[laughter] And I see-- it's kind of a celebration of not just the music, but it's also the culture of hip-hop.

What's the difference?

- Well, the culture includes break dancing, MCing, graffiti, DJing, and then knowledge, which is really the spiritual aspect of it, the history aspect to it, the social activism, the education aspect to it.

So, the culture is-- rap is-- rap is, like, the commercial aspect to it.

But the MC was the messenger, right?

The... MC means "move the crowd," or the master of ceremony.

– Greg: Or the mic controller, all of that.

- Or the mic controller.

– Murv: Okay.

- So, the culture encompasses everything: the fashion, beatboxing, all of those things.

The culture is something that you live.

Rap might be just something that anybody can do, to rhyme a word with another word.

But a culture of people who really represent the culture and represent the people.

- Yeah.

So, is there any way to put a finger on the impact that Wisconsin has had on the overall hip-hop movement?

Has there been an impact on that in Wisconsin?

– Greg: Oh, definitely.

So, what people don't really realize, you got East Coast, everybody knows East Coast, everybody knows West Coast, everybody knows the South.

The Midwest kind of gets... looked over.

But we have the most behind-the-scenes influence in hip-hop.

So, for an example, Clyde Stubblefield, right?

"Funky Drummer."

– Murv: James Brown.

- James Brown!

– Murv: On the one!

- On the one!

But Clyde Stubblefield was right behind James Brown.

He was the drummer for James Brown, and he is the most sampled musician in hip-hop.

– Murv: And is he from Madison or he had ties to Madison?

– Menkhu Ara: He lived here for... - Greg: He lived here for... - ...a long time.

- ...most of his life.

- How did I miss that?

- I don't know, bro, [laughs] but he's here.

He's been here.

He's been a staple in our community.

And he is-- but he is the foundation of hip-hop.

- So, you think, like, that lick that he does kind of... - [simulates drumming] That's in so many songs.

That riff was in so many songs.

Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson.

Like, you name it, they have sampled that beat, you know, and that's part of our hip-hop history.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah, and I know there were some local folks.

We talked a little bit about, you know, Johnny Winston, our retired firefighter friend.

Johnny's, you know... - Yup, Johnny.

- ...your guys' age.

He's a little younger than me, but I remember when he had that little rap group.

Was it Fresh Four?

– Greg: Fresh Force!

– Murv: Fresh Force.

- Fresh Force.

So, they were the first rap group to get a record deal.

They signed with DJ International, which I think was out of Chicago... - Murv: Really?

- ...but... - Murv: Was that as teenagers then?

- Yeah, yeah.

So, they got signed to them and, you know, they did albums, but at that time, it was this hip-house sound.

But then they were competing with the West Coast gangsta rap, and we all know the story, what-- who-- what the sound ended up being.

- How big that got.

Yeah, it got really big.

- Well, does it, does Wisconsin-- you know, did Wisconsin hip-hop/rap have its own kind of style?

Was it any different than, you know, anything that was going on in the East or West Coast or the South?

- I would-- I would say, the style that you could kind of-- the Midwest sound where if you wanna be-- the influence was kind of, like, the Bone Thugs.

So, all the stuff that's now, the singing, rappy-type style, that's Midwest.

The Drake, pshh.

That was Bone Thugs and them all.

You know what I mean?

Like, that was-- if you wanna put a sound to Midwest, I believe that was the kind of the sound.

The singing, rapping kind of... - Murv: Yeah.

- Trap, trap, we influenced trap.

There we go.

[laughs] - And there's a producer from here that had a platinum plaque with G-Unit artist Lloyd Banks, and that's Greg Doby right here.

And so, if you think about Karma, Karma, the record, the platinum joint Karma, I think people liked Lloyd Banks as an MC, but the hook was really what made the song.

– Murv: Yeah.

Yeah, I think of, when I think of, like-- you know, kind of-- nationally-known, you know, artists that were kind of MCing or whatever, I think of, you know, Speech from Arrested Development.

– Greg: Speech from Arrested Development.

Definitely.

They're from Wisconsin.

Matter of fact, they're from Madison and Milwaukee.

I went to school with Aerle Taree at Memorial High School, and Speech was the DJ for Kali Tribe, which was here in Madison and used to battle Fresh Force.

– Murv: Yeah.

- You know, but he lived in Milwaukee, and the story that he told is that they were the first rap group to come out of Atlanta.

So, we birthed Atlanta hip-hop!

[laughs] 'Cause that came from Wisconsin.

And he just happened to move to Atlanta during college.

- Yeah, it's all linked, I guess, huh?

- Yeah, so we were being-- we've been shaping a lot of the popular hip-hop scene for decades.

- Yeah, we've been in the mix.

- Yeah, I feel like you don't get all these artifacts without there being some sort of an influence.

And I've seen-- you know, of course, we've got the boom boxes.

I see the cassette tapes, I saw some sneakers.

I saw a couple of turntables over there.

What's the most impressive part about this exhibit that you guys are proud of?

- Well, we got to be proud of the 3D lenticular pieces, the "Madtown Marauders."

And so, Greg had this great idea inspired by A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders.

And so, we got DJs, MCs, graffiti artists, producers all come together, the headphones on, and we got their headshots.

And the lenticular piece, when you look at it and you move your head, their head moves as well.

So, we are all about, you know, respecting the pioneers ahead of us.

And so, also in this exhibit, we're bringing everybody together.

The 3D lenticular piece and the exhibit is a tribute, right?

It's-- the legacy can't be forgotten.

And so, it's, you know, making sure we remember the journey.

Fifty years is a long time.

And still, hip-hop is probably the loudest voice in music 'til today.

- Why do you think people thought it might not last?

- Well, so hip-hop was birthed in the Bronx, New York, and when hip-hop was birthed, the conditions were worse than a Third World country.

And so, because African American and Latino youth were at the forefront of the movement, and the labels hadn't bought into hip-hop at this time, and so that's why they probably thought it was just gonna be a fad or a trend, because it didn't have, like, the long-lasting tradition of, like, jazz or R&B or rock 'n' roll.

It's this new genre that was emerging and it came out of nowhere.

– Greg: It came out of the struggle.

- Yes.

- You know, when you have pain and... - Murv: Wait, Madison.

They're struggling in Madison?

- Oh, it's still struggles.

[laughs] - The social, economic and political conditions here in Madison, a lot of people don't know about it, but Madison definitely has its struggles.

- I just know when I went to college at Southern University, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, the largest predominantly Black college, I'd tell people that I'm from the urban ghettos of Madison, and it never really went over that well.

They'd kind of... [laughter] - Well, we have a history of redlining in Madison.

There's a lot of poverty in Madison, just like bigger cities.

- Yeah, I would think the story is pretty similar throughout, you know, the neighborhoods that are impacted by hip-hop, right?

– Menkhu Ara: Absolutely.

– Greg: Yeah, absolutely.

- Yeah, and as I walked through the exhibit, I noticed the hip-hop scene here also has a lot of diversity, a lot of different ethnicities, genders, and those sorts of things.

Tell me a little bit about that.

- So, what people don't realize is that hip-hop is the only music genre that touches every music genre: jazz, blues, gospel.

Now, it's country.

You know, the hottest hits right now are hip-hop influenced, and it's country, you know?

- Yes.

- So, it touches the gamut of every genre, and it's relatable to every person.

And it's not just a national thing, it's an international culture now.

You know, we were in the Olympics.

Snoop Dogg's the face.

- I saw that Australian breakdancer representing hip-hop.

– Greg: [laughs] Yeah, man, We won't talk about that.

We won't talk about that.

- We're not happy about the selection process for the Olympics.

- But if that's the best person they have, that's just the best they have, right?

– Greg: Well, I guess, well, you know-- [grumbles] somebody could have... - Murv: So, what do you say, I move to Australia, I might be somebody over there doing breakdancing.

You never know.

- Right.

So, but it's just... - Murv: No, that speaks to the world nature of... - Absolutely, absolutely.

You know, so we're part of every niche of fabric of the human race.

- Yes.

[Greg laughs] - Yeah, and where do you-- what would you describe where things are now with hip-hop in Wisconsin and the scene here?

Has it grown considerably since those infancy days 50 years ago?

– Menkhu Ara: I believe so.

So, one of the big things that's happening in Madison is there's a campaign to make Madison a music city.

And so, we want, you know, hip-hop to have a bigger presence here.

And so, lots of things by community organizations and organizations like ours are fighting to make hip-hop more accessible to the youth here in Madison.

- Yeah, and do you guys-- I saw a bunch of heads and figures on one of the boards out here.

Is that, do you have a Madison Hip-Hop Hall of Fame kind of board that you've been building, or Wisconsin Hip-Hop Hall of Fame board that you've been building?

- We've been connecting with a lot of the organizations around town.

Part of establishing a board is to have hip-hop have a home.

We don't have a home right now.

We're still kind of like nomads.

We're floating around, we're going here and here, and trying to get the word out, but we want a home.

And part of getting us together is to have a home and to control the narrative a little bit.

- 'Cause this is a mobile exhibit.

You guys kind of take it kind of wherever you can find a space and let it sit for a little bit and let people come in and experience it?

- Yeah, WHS has been a great ally and a great partner, to-- you know, it's about history and they see the richness of what we're bringing in.

So, mostly we've been working out of their circuits, but this-- we have plans on expanding and going outside of different venues and making this a long-term thing.

- Yeah, we definitely want to thank Angela Titus here at the Wisconsin Historical Society.

They have been our biggest supporter in the work that we're currently doing.

– Murv: Nice.

And then, I talked to you guys a little bit off camera and I was kind of joking around, but back in my day-- I hate to say that, I'm at that age now, I can say "back in my day."

[laughter] You know, 'cause, again, I was around when this thing started, you know, and we had this thing on the south side of Madison.

You know, Jesse Green used to have these parties for $2.

And anybody out there that grew up on the south side, they know about Jesse Green's parties back in the day, $2, you know, and it was the highlight of the month if Jesse Green had a party.

And his number-one DJ was a guy named Baron Patterson.

And if y'all don't put Baron Patterson [imitates elderly man] in that Hall of Fame, then something's wrong with this-- [laughter] I mean, Baron Patterson would have put that, you know, "Planet Rock" on and all that other stuff on, and we'd be up in there sweating and-- back then, I could get down to the floor and, you know, work that thing.

- Uh-huh, uh-huh.

- You know, and we'd get home at 2 o'clock in the morning.

You know, our parents would still be asleep and they didn't know what time we come home.

Don't tell nobody, but... [chuckles] - Greg: Sneaking through the window.

Yeah, yeah... - But it was-- Man, it was so much fun, though.

It was so much fun just being a part of it.

And I remember, they had these shirts called John Wayne shirts.

Is that ringing a bell for either of you guys?

You remember those shirts?

- Oh, yeah.

- Yeah, they were these shirts that you could-- they had, like, a flap on 'em.

I don't even know why they called them John Wayne shirts, but you could button it to where it could be all the way up, or you could button it to where it'd be flapped over this way or flapped over this way.

And it was kind of-- it would give you, you know, six different looks in one shirt, and there was still somebody gonna say, "That's the same shirt you had on last night, man.

"Just 'cause you flipped it over the other way don't mean it's not the same shirt."

- Didn't Theo from The Huxtables have that shirt?

– Murv: Probably.

[Greg laughs] That would have been, that would have been probably around that time.

- We had parachute pants back then.

- Ooh, parachute pants, I remember those too.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, I remember that.

We had some... - And Hammer pants.

Did you have some Hammer pants?

- I had Hammer pants.

– Murv: I didn't.

That's not-- that wasn't for me.

That's not for-- Tyat was-- [laughter] I just wear these.

I just wear these old raggedy jeans is what I've been wearing.

– Greg: That's where you draw the line?

[laughter] - So, where do you guys think things are headed now?

Where's this genre of music headed, especially here in the state of Wisconsin?

- Well, it's definitely-- like I said, it's definitely expanding.

It's definitely touched every creed and race.

And, you know, like, when you hear-- I didn't think we'd ever hear hip-hop and country, but it's there, you know what I mean?

I just see it just unifying actually.

I think hip-hop is a unifying genre.

It is the only genre that is unifying.

I just said it.

It's the only genre that's unifying us right now.

- I think too... - And it has a voice, yeah... - I think also, to add on what Greg is saying, I think with AI emerging, I think it's an opportunity for MCs to be even more lyrical, right?

So, to make sure we continue to stand ahead and stand apart from everything.

So, I think we're getting back to-- away from all the gimmicks.

Now really getting more into the poetry aspect of writing rhymes.

- Yeah, and it's coming back to the essence, you know, the roots of hip-hop being-- you know what I wanna say.

- Authentic?

- No.

Authentic, but the phrase-- What's the phrase for hip-hop?

Why am I drawing a blank?

– Murv: It happens to me all the time.

- Peace, love, and having fun.

- Absolutely, that's where it starts.

- Peace, love, and having fun.

That's the foundation.

And it's coming back full circle.

– Murv: Yeah.

What are your thoughts on AI in terms of how it's impacting hip-hop?

- Well, I mean, I haven't really engaged with AI very much.

I know Greg is really good at experimenting... - Murv: We should let him answer that then.

- ...using technology, yes.

– Murv: Greg?

- AI is a tool.

And it's all about how you use it.

You know, there's a lot of debate.

"Oh, I ain't never using AI."

It's diminishing, you know, the culture.

It's diminishing, you know, the humanity and soul of it.

But what we have to understand is we're still controlling AI.

You know what I mean?

– Murv: It's got to do what we tell it, right?

- We're still-- it's got to do what we tell it.

So, it still has a human form to it.

Now, it's becoming musically maybe a little bit too perfect.

I think the... - It reminds me of, like, when, you know, when the CD came out, you know, we had records and albums, and the CD came out and it was so pure and so-- there was no static, there was no subtle [whirrs] that little fuzz you hear at the beginning when you put a record on.

And to me, part of that fuzz is part of the music, it's part of the sound.

And I think that... - Greg: That's what's gonna happen.

- I think that level of perfection takes away from the rawness of what, you know, music in general is.

– Greg: Yeah, man.

It's gonna evolve and be a new sound, just like anything with technology.

You know, the musicians used to say, "[scoffs] Oh, you're using that beat machine.

Like, what is that?"

You know what I-- but it evolved and it became a part of the culture.

I think AI is going to evolve and it'll be a part of the new culture and us old schoolers are gonna be like, "Man, what you doing?"

You know what I mean?

But it's gonna have its sound.

- I think it's a situation, too, where we still need to wait and see, right?

Because we... - Murv: It's been 50 years!

How much more time... - Menkhu Ara: 50 years of AI?

- Oh, no, not AI, I'm sorry.

– Menkhu Ara: No, I'm saying with the AI... - Murv: We're talking about AI.

- ...we haven't fully seen what the young folks can do with it, right?

They might-- they may be able to use that tool and do something that really takes us in a cool direction.

- Yeah, I feel like it's-- you know, the people that are looking to cheat, they cheat with it.

And then the people that, you know, are purists with the music, you know, they look to use it to enhance.

And I think it might matter whose hands it's in, I guess.

- Yeah, and, you know, for me, I'm a musician.

I'm a producer.

And I use AI, and I think it's helped to elevate my music.

You know, where I would have to find maybe a bass player or a musician that could match my skill.

– Murv: Right.

- Now, it's a click of a button and it helps me, and now I can get the sound that I want.

Or right now, I'm dipping into gospel music.

I don't have to find a whole choir.

I can, you know, write what I want to, tell it what I wanna do, and I can have it.

And so, now it's elevated my music and it's taking less time and I can release more music faster.

– Murv: Yeah.

Does hip-hop reach across the entire state of Wisconsin?

Like, does it get way up north, up to Superior and way up there and all these other places?

- Where's Mazomanie?

Is that up north?

Where is that?

– Murv: I think Mazomanie is halfway between here and Minneapolis, if I'm not mistaken.

Is it, or am I thinking Menomonie?

I get 'em confused.

- Well, one of the greats is from Mazomanie... - Murv: Brandon, you should jump in and answer that.

You should know this.

[Greg laughs] That's Camera Two over there.

- I mentioned Mazomanie because there's a young lady named Skylar Grey.

– Murv: Oh, yeah.

- And she came from Mazomanie, and she is one of the songwriters behind some of the great hip-hop artists: Eminem, P. Diddy, Dr.

Dre.

– Menkhu Ara: Rihanna.

- Rihanna.

Rihanna's biggest hit, it was written by Skylar Grey.

– Murv: What?

- Man, see?

This is things that people-- Wisconsin is the backbone to a lot of hip-hop hits that we don't even know, that the general public just don't know that we're in the mix.

– Murv: Yeah, so... - Greg: I... - Go ahead.

- I think it reaches.

- I think I've seen some rappers come out of Green Bay.

That's north.

- I think... isn't there a rapper come out of Canada-- that came down from Canada, and maybe he had to come through Wisconsin?

Mm, maybe, like, named Drake or somebody?

[laughs] - Murv: I was thinking Drake, but I didn't know that was-- I didn't know all that.

- We up north, it's... - Yeah, we're really close, yeah.

- We're close.

It had to come down.

– Murv: So, we claiming that?

- We're claiming it.

I don't know about claiming Canada, but I'll claim that-- yeah, Drake.

[laughs] - Wisconsin's close enough to Canada, but maybe not Toronto, but [laughter] Drake might have something-- Drake might have something to say about this.

– Greg: He might.

Let him say something.

[laughs] - Murv: That'd be good for all of us, right?

- Drake, Drake?

[laughter] - So, what happens next, guys?

Where does this go from here?

What do you think?

- We are doing all the diligence necessary for us to have a permanent location, a multi-purpose location where we'll have the hip-hop exhibit, we'll have a Hall of Fame, a coworking space, studios, video studios, recording studio.

We want to have our own location that tourists can come, learn about hip-hop.

We'll have after-school programs, things of that nature.

So, that is our goal.

- Yeah, and under the radar, we're working with some of the other hip-hop museums.

A architect that is working with the New York and the D.C.

has also reached out to us and is going to be helping us on our journey as well.

So, we will have a staple here.

It is-- we will have-- hip-hop will have a home.

- Yeah, and then as far as you kind of, you know, cultivating more kinds of artifacts for this exhibit, what kinds of stuff would you be happy to receive as donations from people out there that might have a pair of old MC Hammer baggy parachute pants?

- Well, we were recently interviewed by Jonathan Gramling, The Capital City Hues, and I think he did one of the last interviews with Clyde Stubblefield before he transitioned.

And so, after our interview, he was like, "I have a drumstick from Clyde Stubblefield that I wanna donate to you guys."

So, we're super excited 'cause it also is gonna have the article that he wrote.

And so, Clyde was on the front cover of the article that he did with Clyde Stubblefield.

So, he's going to gift us that and we're super excited about that.

- Yeah, and that's how organic it's been happening.

You know, we meet people and they hear about what we're doing and they're like, "Oh, I got this, I got that," you know?

And, like, a friend of ours just gave us a whole library of just hip-hop magazines and books.

And we're like, "Well, I guess we gonna have us a library."

- We're gonna have a library.

[Greg laughs] The Allen Chancellor Library.

- Yes, I like that!

I like that, I like that.

So, it's just happening organic and we're just growing.

And it's a good feeling to be on this journey.

I didn't know that I would be curating a museum.

That was not in my path, but I'm so glad that the spirits-- and I'm being aligned in that area.

- Yeah, the preservation of cultures is extremely important because we don't wanna disappear.

We don't want all the contributions by so many people-- to be a artist is hard work.

You have to be dedicated, committed, and a lot of artists put in their heart and soul... - Greg: And passion, yeah.

- ...into their creativity for a long time.

You have no idea what it's like unless you are on that journey.

So, we don't want people's artistry and creativity to just disappear.

So, the preservation of the culture and the history and the artists in this community is really important to us.

– Murv: I didn't get a chance to ask this.

I thought I would have by now.

But are you guys artists yourselves?

- I am.

I'm a producer, music producer by trade.

I started out as an artist in hip-hop, and now it's coming full circle as I'm seeing all of my hip-hop favorites, they're all-- everybody's coming back!

And I'm like, "You know what?

It's time, it's time."

So, now I'm dipping into artistry.

I'm more on the spiritual side of things, you know?

But I'm in it.

I'm writing rhymes again.

- You know, I used to always think about what it was gonna be like when some of these rappers, you know, got to be 50, 60 years old, and we're kind of here now.

What do you think about, you know, the longevity of the artists that have been around and what they've created and how they've kept their careers going?

- It is great.

You know, you still have-- my old school was, like, you know, maybe The Temptations.

You know, and we didn't think-- you know, we didn't know how long that they would be around.

So, I think it's just the evolution of what's to come.

You know, now hip-hop is-- there's old-school hip-hop.

I'm happy for that.

[laughs] - Yeah.

And I love seeing artists like Rakim and Big Daddy Kane continue to be active, like... - And Nas, yeah, oof!

- ...Yeah, Nas, like, that era of hip-hop, the golden era, to see those artists still touring, putting out new music is really important because rock 'n' roll stars, they tour forever.

Their legacy continues.

And for a while, people were, like, "When you get old, you can't rap anymore."

And I don't agree with that sentiment.

I feel like some of our hip-hop legends are rock stars too... - Greg: Absolutely.

- ...And so, they should be able to continue to tour and make out music-- make music and put music out as well.

- And stuff that's coming out, some of it is better than what they were doing before.

It's great to see, it really is.

And I'm excited to be in the midst of all this excitement.

- And part of us having our own museum, we can have artists, like, if they have a book release or if we wanna do a conference and do breakout sessions where they can teach young people how they write and their writing styles and different things like that.

So, that's part of the vision for our museum is to be able to bring national artists, big artists like that... - Greg: Or international.

- ...International artists, and have them interact and perform.

We wanna have a stage in our facility where artists can perform as well.

- Yeah, you talk about some of the young folks that come through here.

What's been the impact of some of the young, you know, folks that come through, you know, people under 10 years old, that kind of thing?

- It is amazing.

We start off, you know, giving the little tour, and they, you know, at first, they may not seem interested 'cause it's a lot of writing and they don't, you know... - Murv: A lot of words.

- ...A lot of words.

A lot of words.

But then, we start showing them the artifacts and asking them, "Do you know what a cassette, "Do you know what this is?

This is a Walkman."

They can recognize the headphones and things.

But, and then we start-- they start interacting and holding things and pushing play.

And then, you can just see their eyes light up.

We had one little girl who was a dancer and she saw the diagram of breakdancing.

She was so intrigued.

Like, "Ooh, this move, he's on his head.

Oh, he's doing a headspin!"

And she was blown, [chuckles] she was blown.

And she did not want to leave.

And then, she got to the graffiti board and her parents were like, "It's time," and she did not want to go.

And so, that's the excitement that I, you know, that I love.

You know, seeing the kids just embrace the culture.

And so, it definitely has a place, and I feel that we're definitely doing it justice.

- Yeah, and like, we have spray paint cans here.

We have vinyl.

So, some kids have never seen an actual record.

And so, to be able to have them have that experience means a lot to us.

– Greg: Yeah.

One girl also, she was like-- she was like, "Oh, I know what a turntable is.

I got a few records."

I was like, "Okay, well, what records do you have?"

And guess what she said?

– Menkhu Ara: What?

- Taylor Swift.

[laughter] Like, okay, I guess if you're gonna put it in your collection, you can have a Taylor Swift.

But, you know, long as she's got a record, you know what I mean?

Like, it's good to see, it's good to see.

- Yeah.

- What else, fellas?

Anything else you wanna share before we scoot out of here?

- Another thing that we're doing, we're also trying to unite the community.

There's... - Murv: Lord knows we need that, right?

- ...Yes.

- Yeah, yeah, man.

And so, we'll have a forum on the last day of this exhibit on the 28th, uniting... - And as he says this, don't worry about it 'cause this will air well after that date, folks.

– Greg: ...Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

- That's okay.

No need to apologize.

But you can go to their website, which is?

- Pyramidalproductions.com.

- And then, you can be able to see some of the different things they got going on.

– Greg: Absolutely.

- 'Cause you guys do a Q&A with this as well, right?

- Yes.

- Yes.

Absolutely.

- We have a panel discussion.

- Talking about the past, the present, and the future of where we're going.

- Yes.

- Why are you guys so passionate about all this?

Why give all this effort?

- We lived it!

We lived it.

- We were there.

- We were there, we were there.

And, you know, I think our past, wherever we go, hip-hop has always been a part of that.

- Hip-hop is the soundtrack to our lives.

- Absolutely.

- And so... - Murv: And what song is playing in your head for your roll?

- For my roll?

– Murv: Yeah, what do you hear?

What's the soundtrack for you?

- Let me see.

- I don't know.

Right now, I've got Hip-hop hooray, ho - I was thinking that.

[Murv chuckles] - Hey [laughs] - I was thinking, "Picture Me Rollin'."

I don't know.

- Ohhh!

- "Picture Me Rollin'."

[laughter] - Tupac.

[Murv laughs] - There's a lot to choose from, right?

– Menkhu Ara: Lots to choose from.

– Greg: It's so much to choose from.

– Murv: A lot to choose from.

- Yeah.

– Murv: Well, great job, guys.

I appreciate you stopping in and making time for us.

Mankaru Ara Maat.

– Menkhu Ara: Menkhu Ara.

- Menkhu Ara, Menkhu Ara.

Say it again.

- Menkhu Ara Maat.

- Yeah, that.

[laughter] And Greg Doby, I can handle that.

- Yeah.

[laughter] We appreciate you being on In Focus.

- Thank you.

- Yes.

- Thanks, fellas.

- Thank you.