Frederica Freyberg:
One of the things Governor Evers says he wants to address with his marijuana proposal is Wisconsin’s high black incarceration rate, saying the state is spending too much money prosecuting and incarcerating people, particularly people of color, for nonviolent crimes related to the possession of small amounts of marijuana. For his part, the chair of the Legislature’s Black Caucus, Milwaukee State Representative David Crowley agrees. He joins us now. Thanks for being here.

David Crowley:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
So on our current laws on marijuana, how do they result in more people of color being incarcerated?

David Crowley:
Well, unfortunately, it just continues to happen. When you think about statewide, countrywide. In Milwaukee County alone, about 40% of black men are arrested for low-level crimes. About 100 times that here in Dane County. Not sure why that happens, but we know that we disproportionately lock up more black men here in the state of Wisconsin than any other state. And so we know we need to do something about that.

Frederica Freyberg:
So disproportionately people of color then are being arrested and convicted for small amounts of marijuana or multiple counts of that or?

David Crowley:
I think both. Small amounts but also multiple accounts as well. When you think about reforming the criminal justice system, it’s not just about making sure that people don’t go, but making sure that they have the tools needed to making sure they don’t continue to commit crimes in the future.

Frederica Freyberg:
Some specific language in the proposal says that neither marijuana odor nor the possession of less than 25 grams of marijuana may be used to establish probable cause. Does this mean that if an officer pulls up on someone and the person rolls down the window and there’s marijuana smoke coming out that they can’t search that car or what does this probable cause have to do with?

David Crowley:
Well, thats just what it is. It’s probable cause. I’m not sure. I haven’t actually read all of that as far as deep into the bills. But the thing is we know that people who are getting caught with 25 grams or less are going to jail and being prosecuted. So it’s really about making sure that we are providing some type of equity, making sure that African-Americans aren’t going to jail. I mean our white counterparts are using marijuana at the same rate as African-Americans so it’s important that we have some equity when it comes down to it because African-Americans are being locked up more.

Frederica Freyberg:
The plan would also put in place a procedure to expunge convictions of people who were charged and sentenced for possessing, manufacturing or distributing this less than 25 grams of marijuana. How would that change the lives of people if they could get these convictions expunged?

David Crowley:
I mean, when you think about people getting back into the workforce, their criminal convictions are what’s holding them back. And so we want to make sure that people, especially when you talk about the low unemployment rate that we have, we need to make sure that expungement is a route. And not just for marijuana convictions, but I think in general we need to be looking at that when you talk about reforming our criminal justice system.

Frederica Freyberg:
If we’re talking about decriminalization of these small amounts of marijuana, does that give people the idea that drugs are okay?

David Crowley:
I don’t think so. Again, we’re talking about medical marijuana, right. So this is making sure that people have access to some type of treatment. When we look at the opioid crisis that we’ve seen, we’ve seen studies that show that medical marijuana can help reduce opioid dependence and so looking at that. But also when we think about countrywide, there has been — the stigma on marijuana is being lifted. So I think many people are embracing that. I think that’s something the state of Wisconsin should do as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
How does the state of Wisconsin deal with the fact that marijuana is still illegal at the federal level?

David Crowley:
I think we follow some of what some of the other states have done. I know that Colorado, Arizona, when you look at California, we just can pretty much follow them. I know there’s going to be issues when it comes down to banking. But this is going to put more money into the government coffers here in the state to make sure that we can pay for roads, schools, and things of that nature.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now what happens, just this scenario, if marijuana’s decriminalized, medical marijuana legalized, but then employers drug test? You know, how does our population deal with that?

David Crowley:
Well, I think you’re still going to have that. We’re not saying that employers should not be able to drug test. Right now we’re starting with something, right. This is just the first step in looking at how this will really affect our state. So I think the employers have a right to actually drug test their folks. So we don’t want to impede on making sure that we have good people in the workforce or making it seem like they need to be sober as well. So in my personal opinion, I think we can continue but this is a step in the right direction.

Frederica Freyberg:
What do you think the odds are of the Republican majority voting for this?

David Crowley:
Im not sure. I think that the Republican leadership pretty much has everybody in line and I don’t think nobody’s going to fall out of line when it comes down to this. But what we’ve seen is competing proposals period. So I’m interested in seeing their medical marijuana proposal because I think that we can find a common place and actually move forward on it.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Representative David Crowley, thanks very much.

David Crowley:
Thank you.