Here & Now

Here & Now for November 8, 2019

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Jennifer Shilling:

Figure out a way that we de-escalate this legislative nuclear war that we are in.

Frederica Freyberg:

Senate Minority Leader Jennifer Shilling on the state of politics under the dome. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” full coverage of a very stormy week at the State Capitol including a special session that wasn’t. And the firing of the ag secretary by the State Senate. Then we’ll shift gears and look at UW’s role in a promising new therapy for cystic fibrosis. It is “Here & Now” for November 8.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided in part by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at the governor’s call for a special session this week to take up gun control laws. The session didn’t happen. No debate, no votes. The call was for 2:00 p.m. on Thursday. As the hour came and went, only Democrats filled the Senate chambers and they stood in prayer. Hours later into the evening Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald gaveled in and immediately gaveled out of the special session. The Assembly also decided not to debate or vote on two gun measures including universal background checks and a red flag law. Here is the response from Governor Evers. “Republicans essentially just told 80% of Wisconsinites and a majority of gun owners ‘Go jump in the lake,’ because they didn’t have the courage to take a vote, much less have a dialogue on two bills about universal background checks and extreme risk protection orders that we know can save lives.” For his part, Senate Majority Leader Fitzgerald said this. “In recent months, we’ve seen liberals across the country run on a platform of support for gun confiscation and Governor Evers himself has left the door open on backing similar proposals. I’ve said all along that the Senate would not go along with the governor’s plans for this special session. The special session was the second rejection of the week. The political brawls started Tuesday. That’s when State Agriculture-designee Brad Pfaff was scheduled to be confirmed by the State Senate. Brad Pfaff’s nomination came with the endorsement of a long list of farm organizations including the Dairy Business Association, the Wisconsin Cheesemakers Association, and the Wisconsin Corn Growers. Prior to the vote, Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald signaled that Republicans would not support the nominee even though five Republican members on the committee that forwarded Pfaff’s nomination to the floor had voted in his favor. In attendance, Governor Tony Evers, which in itself signaled the controversial nature of the vote that rejected a cabinet nomination by a governor for the first time in modern state history. Prior to the roll call, Democrats spoke on behalf of Pfaff.

Jon Erpenbach:

And you’re going to vote no? That is just so blatantly political. Yeah, we’re going to send a message to the governor. And we’re going to take the number one advocate for family farms in the state of Wisconsin and we’re going to cast him to the wind. You think that’s sending a message to the governor? No. You’re sending a message to the ag community, that even though they have a great secretary-designee, that doesn’t matter to you because you would rather play politics than look at the issues, qualifications and ability.

Frederica Freyberg:

But Majority Leader Fitzgerald claimed it was Pfaff playing politics in his time as the secretary-designee.

Scott Fitzgerald:

When it came to Brad Pfaff, I told the governor. I said, “I don’t think there’s enough support there for him. And it’s because of a number of missteps that have happened actually going back to February. And I don’t know if he was caught off-guard or not. I don’t know if the chief of staff was caught off-guard. But we started a discussion and we started to roll through the individual issues that existed around Pfaff and the issues that are in and around agriculture.

Frederica Freyberg:

The final vote to reject the Pfaff nomination ran along party lines.

Clerk:

Erpenbach?

Erpenbach:

No.

Clerk:

Feyen?

Feyen:

Aye.

Clerk:

Fitzgerald?

Fitzgerald:

Aye.

Clerk:

Hansen?

Hansen:

No.

Clerk:

Jacque?

Jacque:

Aye.

Frederica Freyberg:

The wild week at the Capitol showcasing divided government could have its lasting effects. In tonight’s Capitol insight, Wisconsin Public Radio’s State Government Reporter Laurel White joins us from the Capitol. Laurel, thanks for doing so.

Laurel White:

Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:

So first, this was the week Governor Tony Evers called this special session on gun laws but the majority made quick work of that. Describe the mechanics. How quickly did the majority dismiss this session?

Laurel White:

So the Senate convened and adjourned the special session there in about 30 seconds. The Assembly convened and adjourned in about 15 seconds. So very quick special sessions to say the least.

Frederica Freyberg:

Republicans certainly sending a message to the governor.

Laurel White:

They were. This is something that we’ve been expecting for a little bit. Republicans knew what the two bills were that the governor was calling for action on. They knew they didn’t have the support in either chamber to pass those bills. They decided that they didn’t want even have debate on those measures because they knew they were opposed. And that led to some pushback from Democrats saying essentially they were kind of avoiding having a conversation about gun laws in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what’s the governor’s message back to Republicans after that dismissive move?

Laurel White:

The Democrats and the governor are both saying, you know, these measures that we put forward are very popular with the public. They point to Marquette polls saying that each of those two bills have each 80% support or higher. So they are saying that Republicans are essentially doing this kind of at their own expense at the polls potentially for the next election going against in their view the will of the Wisconsin voters.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is happening on another measure with the DATCP secretary position now that the GOP ousted Evers’ pick Brad Pfaff?

Laurel White:

So Governor Evers did announce this week that he has appointed an interim secretary for the Department of Agriculture. Randy Romanski is going to be serving in the role. We have someone there at the helm of that agency until the governor decides to go ahead and make his next nomination for the person that going to have to go through this confirmation process from square one.

Frederica Freyberg:

So again you just called him interim and exactly what does that mean? Do we have that time frame?

Laurel White:

No. I don’t think anybody has a strong idea of how long he is going to be serving in that role or who the governor might put forward in a more permanent capacity for DATCP. He said immediately after Pfaff was voted down that he didn’t have plans for the agency because he was so upset by what happened with the Senate. This is something that’s definitely still evolving in the governor’s office.

Frederica Freyberg:

Has a state Senate rejection of a nominee ever happened in state history? We’ve been reading some about that.

Laurel White:

We don’t have a concrete answer to that. We know it hasn’t happened in at least the last 30 years. That’s as far back as the Legislative Reference Bureau has gone with their records to 1987. They said it could have been even longer than that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you ever seen or have others in the Capitol core ever seen a governor in the chambers as this kind of action was taking place?

Laurel White:

No. That was incredibly unusual. I think veteran reporters were talking about how they had never seen it. I think actually a reporter reached out to Senator Fred Risser who’s been in office for more than 50 years. He said he had never seen a governor on the Senate floor watching a debate. So it was a really unusual vote to oust a cabinet secretary and also a really unusual move for a governor to be there witnessing the debate about it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Laurel White, thank you for joining us.

Laurel White:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

A closer look now as to one reason the Republican-held State Senate rejected the governor’s nominee for ag secretary. Many in opposition to Brad Pfaff’s selection said it was his agency’s proposed changes to livestock siting rules for new or expanding operations in the state. The rules would include where livestock facilities could be placed, odor and runoff management and regulation of manure storage facilities. Farm groups and Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce were among those opposing the revised rules saying the regulations would be burdensome. The Wisconsin Farm Bureau says they would stifle the growth of the state’s ag economy. The Wisconsin Farmers Union and its president, Darin Von Ruden, take a different view. He joins us now from La Crosse. And thanks for being here.

Darin Von Ruden:

Thank you too, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

What was your reaction to the rejection and ouster of the ag secretary-designee?

Darin Von Ruden:

Really disappointing and disheartening really. Brad grew up here in western Wisconsin on a family dairy farm and been involved in agricultural all of his life even though he was involved in politics. But he was involved in the ag side of working with Senator Ron Kind and also — Congressman Ron Kind and then also Senator Herb Kohl early in his career. So you know, he really knows the agriculture industry inside and out here in the state of Wisconsin and was really going to be a great spokesman for the ag industry here.

Frederica Freyberg:

Earlier you had said you thought perhaps the decision was political. How so?

Darin Von Ruden:

Well, you know I think just looking at some of the things that happened this summer with the Joint Finance Committee tying up the $100,000 on the mental health issue until the Senator Fitzgerald’s task force made recommendations and then one of their recommendations was actually for the Department of Ag to get that $100,000. Secretary — Senator Fitzgerald really didn’t like that backlash. But I guess what Brad was doing was calling a spade a spade.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for DATCP’s proposed rule revisions on new or expanding livestock operation, what’s your reaction to those who say that they would be burdensome, hurt agriculture and put people out of business?

Darin Von Ruden:

Right now in the dairy state that Wisconsin’s known as, we’re losing two dairy farms a day. So what is the real issue? It’s more economics than regulations. Farmers are not recovering what their costs are right now and haven’t been for five years now. We got to look at the economics and try to figure out how to get those into more of a balance so that more farmers stay in business.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you feel like the revised rules are a good thing?

Darin Von Ruden:

Yes, I do. You know, especially when you start looking at what rural municipalities, townships, counties, some of the costs that they have in the permitting process for these large farms can run into the tens of thousands of dollars sometimes. And a lot of times, the counties only get $300 to $500 to look at that. So they’re using taxpayer money to offset the difference between what they’re receiving from their permitee and what their actual costs are. One of the things that the proposed new rule was going to do was going to allow these municipalities and townships to actually set a fee that they could recover their costs.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know that some people are saying these new revised rules, they’re not just for those largest CAFOs out there but for operations expanding to like 500 animals. The larger operations are really now part of our farming mix. Would you like to see them even more strictly regulated or prohibited even?

Darin Von Ruden:

We really have to look at that. When you look at the largest of businesses around the country, they’re really regulated more than the mom and pop shops are. As a 50-cow, organic dairy farmer, the only regulations I really have is trying to follow the organic standards that the consumers really want to see enforced. And those, yes, they cost a little bit of money but those consumers also are willing to pay that little bit extra to make sure the farmer stays in compliance with what the organic standards are. So looking at what larger farming operations are doing, too, if we look at how our dollars come back to us from the consumer, they can recover those costs from regulations if we look at how we price our product.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Darin Von Ruden, thank you for joining us.

Darin Von Ruden:

Thank you Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

In tonight’s inside look, divided state government on steroids. This week was a stark display of partisan power plays, or is it the new normal? We turn to our political panelists. Conservative Bill McCoshen and Liberal Scot Ross. Thank you for being here.

Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross:

Thanks for having us.

Frederica Freyberg:

First to you, Scott. Your reaction to the ouster of both Brad Pfaff and the special session that was not?

Scot Ross:

I think it’s just outrageous. It’s where the Republican Party of Wisconsin is right now because what you had if Brad Pfaff was an able servant who has been — he knows what it’s like to be a farmer. The guys’ a — you know, he grew up on a family farm. Worked there. And he’s worked helping farmers in Wisconsin for 25 years. He’s devoted his life to it. The fact they got rid of him was a complete and total power play. It was because the Republicans don’t like — you know, the industries that support the Republicans don’t like what Brad and the DATCP were doing related to siting, related to big agribusiness polluting our waters. And it’s very simple. They want to send a very strong message. And they did. They sent a message to farmers that they don’t care about farmers.

Frederica Freyberg:

Bill?

Bill McCoshen:

I think Scot and I are actually going to agree on one of his points that DATCP did not listen to farmers on this rule. Let me say this. Brad Pfaff’s a good man. I’ve known him a long time. I think what happened this week was unfortunate but it was preventable. I mean it really was. On the livestock siting rule, he had four chances to change this rule and the DATCP decided not to. The ag industry sent him a letter in August with specific concerns. They did nothing. Speaker Vos, Majority Leader Fitzgerald sent him a letter in September saying hey, if you don’t listen to farmers on this, we’re going to suspend the rule. He did nothing. Senator Nass, chairman of the Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules put out a statement saying, hey, if you don’t listen to farmers, we’re going to send this rule back. They did nothing. It wasn’t until last Friday when Majority Leader Fitzgerald said to the governor, hey, we don’t have the votes for Pfaff. He might be going down, that they finally withdrew those rules. If you’re ag secretary, you have one job. That’s to defend and promote the ag industry, period. That’s it. They chose environmental activists over farmers and it was a big mistake.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the gun special session, what do you make that?

Scot Ross:

Well, the Republicans simply are beholden to the NRA and they won’t do anything like pass common sense gun reform that, in this instance, 80% of the public supports. When it comes to universal background checks, when it comes to the extreme risk protection orders. These are things that 80% of the people support. And the Republicans simply will do nothing.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet, Tony Evers knew that they weren’t going to go for this. He gets to now go ahead and put up statements about the 80%. He knew they weren’t going to go for it.

Scot Ross:

Well, again, the modern Republican Party is bought and paid for by the National Rifle Association so they are going to stand in the way no matter how many tragedies occur. No matter how much data-driven — that’s the thing about these two pieces of legislation. It’s data-driven that they work. The reduction in gun-related suicides in Indiana, 10 years after they put these measures in place, the ERPO, 7.5% reduction. I mean it’s very simple. It works.

Bill McCoshen:

Democratic governor in Minnesota, Tim Walz, had the same opportunity and he chose not to call a special session on guns because he knew he couldn’t get the bill through. I think the Evers Administration could have easily seen that this Legislature wasn’t going to pass the two bills he was promoting. And frankly, they put the governor in a bad spot. He looked weak this week, Frederica. He really did. You don’t have a governor sit on the state Senate floor for 2 and 1/2 hours watching one of his own cabinet secretaries go down. That was malpractice by the staff. You can’t have that. I worked for a governor for 10 years.

Frederica Freyberg:

That was pretty unusual to see him in the chambers.

Scot Ross:

Yeah, sure. I don’t think I could watch the Senate for 2 and 1/2 hours at this point, I can tell you that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is there any amount of revenge politics in all of this?

Bill McCoshen:

I think it speaks to they have to figure out a way to work together. Remember, let’s go back to Tommy Thompson. Tommy Thompson got his biggest achievements: welfare reform and school choice when Democrats controlled both houses of the legislature. Why? He figured out how to work with the Democrats. Jim Doyle got things done with a Republican legislature. Scott McCallum got things done with a split legislature. This administration has to figure out how to work with the Republicans in the majority.

Frederica Freyberg:

Things are so different now though. So much more entrenched.

Scot Ross:

Yeah, I mean let’s talk about what happened last year. The lame duck attacks. The rule changes. Rejecting a secretary for the first time in modern history and now the stuff related to restricting the veto authority of the governor. These are all attacks by the Republicans who sat and did every single thing that Scott Walker wanted as governor and now they’re changing the rules because a Democrat won and they lost.

Frederica Freyberg:

How do you work together?

Bill McCoshen:

It’s a matter of finding the right person who can build the relationship with the majority leader, with the speakers. Start to cut small deals that lead to medium-sized deals that lead to bigger deals. You have to build trust. Right now, there’s no trust between the legislature and the administration.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the national level, what do you make of the Kentucky governor’s race that saw a Democrat win despite President Trump’s very best efforts?

Bill McCoshen:

I would say it’s a tiny win for Democrats. And here’s why. Matt Bevin was very unpopular. A month before the election, his job approval was in the 30s. I mean frankly the guy should not have run for re-election. Yet, Donald Trump went in there and helped him get to 49 and 1/2%. He lost by 10,000 votes out of a million and a half.

Frederica Freyberg:

It’s a win.

Bill McCoshen:

Well, more importantly down ticket, there were five other statewide races on Tuesday night and Republicans cleaned up on all of them. They won anywhere from 10 to 18% in all five of those other races. More importantly, those candidates got between 75,000 and 155,000 more votes than Bevin. So the Republicans came out on Tuesday night. They just didn’t like Bevin.

Scot Ross:

Democrats came out. I mean you saw — Trump won that state by 30 points. Look at Virginia where for the first time in a generation, the Democrats control all branches of government and have not lost a state —

Bill McCoshen:

Been turning blue for a while.

Scot Ross:

Have not lost a statewide race since 2009. In Mississippi, the Democrat came close to winning. Democrats win elections when Democratic voters go to the polls. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an off year or whether it’s a presidential election year. Democrats are motivated to go out there because of the corruption, because of the kleptocracy, because of the fealty to whatever Donald Trump wants by the Republican Party and they’re holding Republicans accountable.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you think that kind of a results is a bellwether for 2020?

Scot Ross:

I absolutely do but with a caveat. Democrats have to keep working. They have to keep working and talking to their base so their base goes out to the polls.

Bill McCoshen:

It is not a bellwether, not in Kentucky. Virginia, that’s been trending blue for a while. Trump didn’t last it time. Bush didn’t win it either time. So that was not a huge surprise. But I’ll tell you what, the one thing Republicans have to be careful of is they have lost 350 state — seats in the legislatures during Donald Trump’s administration. That’s half of as many as Obama lost at the same point in his presidency but it’s still something to be mindful of.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thanks very much. Bill and Scot, thanks. In tonight’s look ahead, it’s not a cure per se but proving to be life changing. A new breakthrough drug combination is offering hope to patients living with cystic fibrosis, a pulmonary disease impacting 30,000 people in the United States. Cystic fibrosis can cause severe lung damage, difficulty breathing, and early death due to thick, sticky mucous in the airways. There is no cure for the inherited disease but thanks to teams of researchers at the UW and across the country, the new trial drug therapy is targeting the root cause of the disease and showing amazing results. In a moment, we will hear from one patient showing such improvement in her condition. But first, we turn to Dr. Andrew Braun who led UW’s participation in the phase three trials of this medication prior to FDA approval. He’s the director of the UW Adult Cystic Fibrosis Program and thank you for being here.

Andrew Braun:

Thank you for inviting me.

Frederica Freyberg:

How important is this breakthrough?

Andrew Braun:

This is a momentous therapy for people with cystic fibrosis. Right now and for the last 30 to 40 years, we’ve really been treating the symptoms of the disease. This new medication targets the underlying genetic defect and we are already seeing quite amazing results for people who have been able to access the medication.

Frederica Freyberg:

What was your initial reaction when you saw those kinds of results?

Andrew Braun:

It is something that we have never seen in cystic fibrosis. This medication will be adding likely years of life to people with CF and really impacting their quality of life. Currently most people spend two to three hours a day doing multiple inhaled respiratory therapies and aggressive chest physical therapies. This medication, which is a pill that they will take once in the morning and once in the evening, will likely impact that quality of life dramatically.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because it’s an inherited disease, it’s tested for in babies. When do most people show symptoms or signs?

Andrew Braun:

All children in the United States, all states now screen for cystic fibrosis as of 2009. The University of Wisconsin actually led the efforts for newborn screening and it’s actually since the mid-1980s that patients in Wisconsin have been able to be diagnosed at birth. There are a few cases that are diagnosed in adulthood but the vast majority of people will know within a week or two of life that they’ve been diagnosed with CF.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s hear from one of your patients who has received this treatment.

Jessica LaBrec:

I think compared to before, it’s really helped my quality of life with being able to do more things on my own. Being able to do more things that I enjoy with ease. To me, it almost feels as close to a cure as I ever thought was possible in my lifetime. Because it’s kind of given me my life back.

Frederica Freyberg:

So she says it feels like as close to a cure as she thought she would ever have in her lifetime and it has given her her life back. How meaningful is that to you as her physician to hear that?

Andrew Braun:

It is really amazing. We’ve never seen a therapy like this before. The fact that our patients are now going to be able to look towards a future they didn’t think they would have is quite remarkable. This therapy is going to be available for 85 to 90% of people who are living with CF and on approval, it is for only patients who are 12 years and older. We expect children to be able to be accessing this medication hopefully within the next few years. But there are still 10% of patients that we need to continue to fight for and are going to need other types of genetic therapies to help to develop that type of improvement in their symptoms.

Frederica Freyberg:

Describe the improvement that you saw in that patient or others going from place A to place B with the treatment.

Andrew Braun:

I would characterize that patient’s symptoms and lung function to be — have really started to develop into an advanced or severe state. This therapy for her has improved her back into a much different state of lung function. She’s now able to reconsider interacting with the things she loves to do on a daily basis. And it will dramatically be improving her quality of life going forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because one of the things that people with cystic fibrosis also have to be really careful about is getting, say, a cold, right? And so they have to kind of limit where they go and who they see.

Andrew Braun:

Well, we’re still going to tell our patients to do everything they need to do to stay healthy. And that means staying away from people who are sick or really taking good hygiene precautions. This is a therapy that is highly effective but they’re still going to be at risk for future concerns related to the disease today. So it is not a cure yet. But yes, it is improving quality of life.

Frederica Freyberg:

You said this will be available to a large number of cystic fibrosis patients. What about right now?

Andrew Braun:

So the FDA approved it approximately 2 and 1/2 weeks ago. We’ve been putting in prescriptions and we are waiting for insurers to look into authorizing the medication for patients. It is initially approved for people with a diagnosis of cystic fibrosis who are 12 years and older and have a very specific gene mutation. That gene mutation, which is the F508del mutation, which many people with cystic fibrosis know that name, includes 85 to 90% of people with CF.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just very briefly, how long have researchers been working towards this day?

Andrew Braun:

Yeah, this is 20 to 25 years of breakthrough science that has been fostered by the involvement of many people raising money for cystic fibrosis. The National Cystic Fibrosis Foundation that was critical in funding some of this research in the beginning and it is both from patients who participated in research trials and the community that has supported them that have gotten us to this point today.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Dr. Andrew Braun. Thanks you very much.

Andrew Braun:

You’re welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

That is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided in part by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.