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The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

2024 presidential hopefuls drive home their support for the working class amidst an historic strike by the United Auto Workers and Wisconsin workers join the frontlines.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” we hear from voices on the picket line and an economist looks at this moment through an historical lens. Paul Ryan tells us Wisconsin Republicans will lose with Trump. A drain on freshwater resources has local leaders drafting a Mississippi River compact and the Lac du Flambeau tribe combats threats to wild rice. It’s “Here & Now” for September 29.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The United Auto Workers union today expanded the nationwide picket line against the country’s three largest car manufacturers. It’s been two weeks since UAW first walked off the job to strike General Motors, Ford and Chrysler parent company Stellantis. It’s been one week since the auto parts makers joined them, including two Wisconsin plants in Milwaukee and Hudson. Marisa Wojcik has more.

Group:

No contract. No parts.

Joe Neu:

Nobody’s ever done this in the history of the UAW, put all three out.

Marisa Wojcik:

In weekly waves, United Auto Workers are joining the picket line, striking the country’s three car manufacturing giants.

Steve Frisque:

Notified my members that morning at approximately 9:00 that get ready to go. We’ll be walking at 11:00 and that’s what we did.

Marisa Wojcik:

Steve Frisque is the president of UAW Local 722 at a GM facility in Hudson. His members who voted 97% in favor to strike stand with auto workers across the country with the ultimate goal of renegotiating 146,000 contracts. For members, the purpose is simple.

Worker:

Striking for our rights.

Marisa Wojcik:

One major demand is a 36% wage increase and cost of living adjustments.

Steve Frisque:

I actually make less money today than I did when I hired in at General Motors in 1986.

Marisa Wojcik:

Depressed wages hit workers hard amidst soaring inflation.

Steve Frisque:

A lot of them either have to work the overtime and a lot of them have second jobs because they just — they can’t survive on that amount of money.

Marisa Wojcik:

Another primary demand is an end to the two-tier system.

Steve Frisque:

They can start people at lower wages and they would never actually get hit full wage like the legacy employees did. It’s dividing the workforce and it has caused animosity between workers.

Marisa Wojcik:

The union says how they got here dates back to 2009, when Ford, Chrysler and General Motors faced bankruptcy. A federal bail-out saved them from complete collapse.

Steve Frisque:

One of the conditions of that bail-out bill was that the union had to re-open the contract and sacrifice a lot of things that we had negotiated, and now that these companies are making, the three of them have made a quarter of a trillion dollars the last 10 years in profits.

Doug Frump:

It has to come back around. We gave when they were bankrupt, when they were folding, going down the tubes. We gave. Now it’s time to give a little bit of that back. That’s all we ask.

Joe Neu:

We produce millions of dollars in profits per month out of here.

Marisa Wojcik:

Joe Neu is the president of UAW Local 75, which represents workers at a Chrysler facility in Milwaukee, a location now at risk of closure.

Joe Neu:

Any time you’re on a chopping block, you got to watch.

Marisa Wojcik:

A common theme among these union veterans is fighting for the next generation.

Doug Frump:

I’m fighting for these young people with young families.

Steve Frisque:

And that’s what we’re doing, bringing these younger kids up to learn how to do these things so that when we’re gone, they can take over.

Marisa Wojcik:

While negotiations have been ongoing, an end doesn’t appear to be in sight as the union expanded strikes Friday to 25,000 people. The UAW strike mirrors the national resurgence for unions across the country.

Steve Frisque:

You’re seeing a lot of people organizing now. People are tired of it and they’re fighting back and that’s a good thing because we needed that to happen in this country.

Doug Frump:

If it wasn’t for the union, you wouldn’t have 40-hour work weeks. You wouldn’t have paid holidays. You wouldn’t have eight-hour workdays. The union fights for everybody, whether they know it or not, because what we do drives the community, it drives the area.

Marisa Wojcik:

Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Marisa Wojcik.

Frederica Freyberg:

No pun intended, but what are the driving forces behind the UAW strike and other actions across the country and here in Wisconsin? To take the temperature on organized labor and unionization, where it’s been and where it’s going, we turn to retired professor of economics at Milwaukee Area Technical College, Michael Rosen. Thanks very much for being here.

Michael Rosen:

I’m delighted to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So of particular interest about you, you worked at the Chrysler plant in Kenosha before it closed. How was the auto workers union different then?

Michael Rosen:

Well, it was — how was it different then? It was a pretty strong union in Kenosha at that time. It was led by Rudi Kozal, who has since passed away, but it was a very strong union. In fact, in the late ’80s, when Chrysler was — when they were threatening to close that entire plant, Kozal led the union in a fight that actually brought an engine plant to Kenosha and kept many people’s jobs. So it was always a strong fighting union, the UAW.

Frederica Freyberg:

So in this strike, as you know, the UAW wants raises in parity with CEO compensation increases, and the median pay for these auto workers, I’ve read, is in the $80,000 range, including benefits, but the GM CEO’s compensation package is something like $29 million. How does this gap compare to the heyday of auto unions in, say, the ’60s or ’70s?

Michael Rosen:

Well, when you think about — this is — when you think about in general the relationship between workers and CEOs, in 1965, CEOs made 15 times as much as their workers. Today, it’s over 350 times. The auto companies have made a quarter of a trillion dollars over the last decade and yet the auto workers have seen a decline in their wages, in real wages, spending power, of 20%, 20%. Meanwhile, the CEOs are being paid $20 million a year, getting $20 million a year raises, and this is really the heart of the matter, the people who are creating the wealth for these auto companies have not been adequately compensated. In fact, you may know this, but they gave up — they gave up cost of benefit increases in the Great Recession. They have not gotten those back. And that’s one of the issues driving the strike. Another issue that’s driving that strike is that they have a two-tier system. Many of the workers are paid significantly less than the more senior workers, and that’s not — and according to the workers themselves, that’s simply not fair.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you have said, and you’re just saying now, that companies consistently demanded concessions from the frontline workers who were creating this wealth, but is the tide turning for union labor on taking those kinds of concessions?

Michael Rosen:

I think it is. I think that there’s several reasons for that, but one of the most important is that we have a very strong economy right now and when we have a tight economy, that is when unemployment is very low, workers are less fearful about losing their jobs, and that’s not the case just recently. That’s been the case historically, all the way back to the 1800s. In the 1830s, in the early 1830s, you saw organizing of workers in the Lowell mills, mainly women workers, young women who’d come off the farms to work in these mills, when the economy was strong, and they built unions. And then, of course, when the economy got weaker, they were laid off and unions declined, and that’s been a historic pattern.

Frederica Freyberg:

This question, what about the argument that giving workers the kinds of pay raises that they’re talking about, 36%, will cost consumers more because production costs will go up?

Michael Rosen:

Well, it’s possible that it will cost consumers more. But in the 1960s, and ’70s, up until 1979, wages rose in tandem with productivity. As productivity went up, the gains in productivity, that’s the output that the workers are producing, was shared with the workers. It went in tandem. Since that time, since that time, there’s been a huge decline, increases in productivity of 65%, but wages for workers have only gone up 17%. So we know from history, we know from our own history in the 1950s, ’60s and even ’70s, that you could compensate workers adequately because their productivity was increasing, and that was broken beginning in about 1979 and ’80, and ever since then, we’ve seen a huge rise in inequality. So I think the experience indicates that you can pay — adequately pay people. Now, will that mean that CEOs and other executives may be less compensated? Possibly. Will it mean that there’s some increase in prices? It could mean. But remember, in the auto industry, the cost of labor is a very small percentage of the cost of production, less than 6%.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. There’s a lot more to talk about and we will call on you again. Michael Rosen, thank you very much.

Michael Rosen:

Well, thank you for having me. I enjoyed it and I hope we talk again soon.

Frederica Freyberg:

If Donald Trump is the nominee, Republicans will lose the election. That’s what former Republican House Speaker and Janesville Congressman Paul Ryan said this week speaking at UW-Madison. “Here & Now” reporter Steven Potter sat down with Ryan and learned more about that opinion but started his discussion by asking how current congressional leadership can avoid a federal government shutdown.

Paul Ryan:

The problem is more of our members are new and have never been there for a government shutdown, so I think there are a lot of people pining for this. Not a lot, a few people are pining for a government shutdown. Nothing is gained from it. It doesn’t do any good. And I know Speaker McCarthy would like to avoid it, but I don’t know that he’ll have the votes to avoid it, and that’s going to be, that’s going to be a real problem.

Steven Potter:

What steps should elected leaders take to make sure the American economy is the strongest and safest it can be?

Paul Ryan:

You don’t want to do anything to feed more inflation. I think you want to make sure that we don’t stifle innovation with overregulation from governmental agencies. And I think tax policy, you have a lot of the tax code, particularly on small businesses that are expiring in 2025. If we could give businesses certainty that their taxes aren’t going to go up dramatically, that would help a lot of long-term planning. Over the long-term, we’ve got to get our debt under control, and that means we have to deal with the majority of government funding that is not in these annual appropriation bills. Those are our entitlement programs. Our social contract is very important. It provides a safety net for the poor. Health and retirement security for most Americans, but it was written in the 20th century in ways that are proving unsustainable in the 21st century. So we need comprehensive reforms of these programs so that they can continue and they don’t bankrupt our country.

Steven Potter:

What do you think the chances are that the Republicans will take back the White House?

Paul Ryan:

If we can beat Trump in the primary, we’ll win. If we nominate Trump, I think we’ll lose. I think it’s just that simple.

Steven Potter:

At one point you did support Donald Trump…

Paul Ryan:

When I was Speaker of the House, I governed with him. Uh, there are two reasons I don’t support Trump. One practical, one sort of principle. The practical reason is, ever since his one win in 2016, we’ve been losing ever since. If you look at the key swing states in America that will determine the presidency, Wisconsin being one of them, it’s the suburban voter that is the swing voter in those states. Wisconsin, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, maybe Pennsylvania. Suburban voters in those states are the swing voters. You think the college educated suburban voter, say in the WOW counties in Wisconsin, like Donald Trump more since January 6th than they did before? So I don’t see any scenario where those swing voters are going to be more likely to vote for Donald Trump. The principle reason why I don’t think he should our nominee is I don’t think he’s fit to be president. I just don’t think the man — I think he proved it to all of us on January 6th, but I just don’t think the man’s fit for the office.

Steven Potter:

A new poll from the Pew Research Center found that about 65% of Americans feel exhausted when they are thinking about politics, 55% of them are angry when they think about politics. What needs to be done to keep Americans engaged in politics and elections?

Paul Ryan:

The question is can we have politicians that can supply a better version of ourselves, a better version of politics that is also politically viable. That’s what I’m praying and hoping for. So can we have politicians that can campaign on actually solving problems, bringing us together and fashioning sort of inspirational inclusion, political agenda that actually solves problems. Do it from the right’s perspective, do it from the left’s perspective, but debate about ideas in solving problems. I would like to think the country is getting fatigued from this hyper partisanship and polarization and that they would reward political aspiring leaders who offer that kind of politics.

Frederica Freyberg:

In Wisconsin, we are fortunate to be surrounded by huge bodies of water, including the mighty Mississippi. Parched states out west like Arizona with their own rivers drying up are eyeing our water to pump their way. Concern over such diversion is prompting action to prevent it. This month, 30 mayors representing 10 states voted in favor of forming a Mississippi River compact. La Crosse Mayor, Mitch Reynolds, is among the mayors leading the effort and he joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Mitch Reynolds:

Well, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what would a Mississippi River compact do?

Mitch Reynolds:

It’s really modelled after the Great Lakes compact and it’s really meant to protect the Mississippi River as a water resource for now and for generations to come. So we have to maintain the Mississippi River as not only as something that’s beneficial for our communities up and down the Mississippi River, but also for our entire nation. When you think about the number of states that the basin drains, it’s 32 states that the basin drains and there’s 40% of the ag products in the nation will be — will go — will travel down the Mississippi River, and so for us to create a compact is really just a sensible way to ensure that the Mississippi River stays as a significant water resource, a natural habitat resource, a navigation resource, an economic resource for generations to come.

Frederica Freyberg:

So I know that the concerns are around diversion to states that sorely need water, but would it really be feasible to pump or divert the water out west?

Mitch Reynolds:

You wouldn’t think so. I mean, you would think that it would be just incomprehensible to take a pipe and run it across the United States of America to the southwest and say, “Here’s your water,” but we do that for oil and arguably water is the more significant resource than oil is. I would argue that. So I’m not putting it past anybody. We have a lot of people that say, “Well, this will never happen.” Well, it may never happen, but it might happen. So why not create a compact to ensure that it doesn’t, and not only a compact to ensure that diversion is not an option, but also make sure we’re acting in unity to protect the resource. And I think that that’s something that, again, the entire nation has an interest in.

Frederica Freyberg:

Absolutely. So it’s fashioned on the Great Lakes Compact. We know that took years to enact. What’s the timeline here?

Mitch Reynolds:

Well, hopefully sooner, quicker than years, and I think that because there is that model there with the Great Lakes Compact, and of course, the Great Lakes Compact is two nations, obviously, too, so it’s not just the United States. It’s Canada as well. We have 10 states and we need our state legislatures to champion this and to approve that, we need the federal government to approve it, but I think that we already have that precedent of the Great Lakes Compact. It feels like this is a much more doable proposition.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you know —

Mitch Reynolds:

So again, timeline – exact timeline, I’m not sure, but I think it should be quicker.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you know about the legislatures’ sense of whether they would support this?

Mitch Reynolds:

Great question. I guess we’re early on in this process. I can’t imagine that legislatures in these 10 states would say, “No, we’re not protecting the Mississippi River.” It is the life blood of all of these states. It’s hard for me to believe that that would not happen, but maybe, and that’s what our — the job of — like the group that I’m in, the Mississippi River Cities and Towns Initiative, I’m one of the new, national co-chairs of this group, one of the things we’re doing and we’re trying to work towards is to make sure that the state legislatures, our federal representatives understand just how significant and important this is. So if there is hesitation, then we can try to convince them otherwise.

Frederica Freyberg:

Still, you at this juncture, seem really fired up about this.

Mitch Reynolds:

Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? This is significant. The city of La Crosse, and virtually every city along the Mississippi River, the past and the current, the present and the future, all of it is — all of it is — is basically formed by the river with our relationship to the river. The Mississippi River, it is a significant part of our community, who we are, who we’re going to be in the future. We need to protect this as a resource and, you know, for me and for my children for generations to come. I think it is just — it is critical for our city, for all of the cities that — up and down the Mississippi River from Bemidji to the mouth, we are — it is profoundly necessary for us to protect this as not only a resource for our communities, but as a national resource as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Mayor Reynolds, thanks very much.

Mitch Reynolds:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Experts say summers in Wisconsin have gotten about two degrees warmer since 1970 which has wreaked havoc on wild rice, an important part of native life. But hotter summers aren’t the only reason wild rice is facing challenges. “Here & Now” reporter Nathan Denzin has this story.

Joe Graveen:

Hopefully in my lifetime I’ll see it come back. My grandchildren, my children, they’ll have that.

Nathan Denzin:

As the leaves start to change and summer drifts into fall, native people in northern Wisconsin have one thing on their mind: wild rice. But due to climate change and other human causes, wild rice is becoming less abundant.

Joe Graveen:

We used to have close to 75 bodies of water with wild rice on it. Now we got two rivers.

Nathan Denzin:

Wild rice, or manoomin in Ojibwe, grows in shallow streams and lakes across the Great Lakes region. Manoomin is extremely nutritious, delicious, and fundamental to how native people in this area live.

Joe Graveen:

This is a map from 1911.

Nathan Denzin:

Records dating back to 1850 show over 225 acres of wild rice in the Lac du Flambeau area. But today, that number is closer to 100. Joe Graveen is the wild rice technician for the Lac du Flambeau tribe. He says manoomin is the reason native people migrated to the region.

Joe Graveen:

A lot of prophecies told us to go to where the food grows out of water, which is wild rice, manoomin.

Nathan Denzin:

That was over 2,500 years ago, and native people have been harvesting wild rice ever since. Before ricers can knock, roast and thrash the seed, environmental factors have to be just right year-round for the seed to grow.

Maddy Nyblade:

It also needs harsh winters or cold winters with thicker lake ice.

Nathan Denzin:

Maddy Nyblade is a Ph.D. student at the University of Minnesota who works with Graveen and the tribe to study wild rice and why it might be disappearing. She says that winter is when manoomin faces its first challenge.

Maddy Nyblade:

So we are seeing less snow, less lake ice duration and both of those have a negative impact on rice.

Nathan Denzin:

Wild rice needs a long-lasting freeze that turns over nutrients on the lakebed. Recent shorter winters means that doesn’t happen as much. After winter, wild rice needs shallow water to germinate. However, dams, culverts and other interventions over the last two centuries have raised water levels too high for the plant to grow.

Joe Graveen:

I have documents that shows where the United States government flooded hundreds and hundreds of acres of wild rice, not even 12 miles from here.

Nathan Denzin:

By August or September, if the rice was able to survive, it’s ready to be harvested. That’s when people like Greg Biskakone Johnson and his partner Alexandria Sulainis head out in canoe to knock.

Greg Biskakone Johnson:

Being Ojibwe, you should probably either use it, eat it, harvest it, or share it.

Alexandria Sulainis:

When it’s time to harvest manoomin, everything stops and we go out ricing.

Nathan Denzin:

Biskakone Johnson is an artist and cultural educator in Lac du Flambeau, who has been ricing for most of his life. Sulainis is the owner of Adaawe Design Collective and is originally from a tribe in Michigan where rice beds have all but disappeared. On one end of the canoe, he pushes the pair through delicate rice beds with a large pole, careful not to accidentally destroy any stalks. Manoomin needs a very particular environment to thrive, and Johnson says the wake from motorboats can cause a huge problem and destroy acres of rice beds. Unless you’re on a lake with no rice like we are, wakes can be large enough to shake rice off the stalk or churn up lake beds and stop the rice from growing in the first place.

Greg Biskakone Johnson:

That means less food for me and my family, my tribe.

Alexandria Sulainis:

It’s a shame to see things in decline and to see them in decline for such selfish reasons.

Nathan Denzin:

And the plant faces dozens of other threats, including invasive species, water pollution and severe storms.

Maddy Nyblade:

Because it’s impacted by so many different factors, it can show us what’s happening and be a signpost of our environment.

Alexandria Sulainis:

When you mess with the natural way of things, there’s always going to be consequences that you can’t predict.

Greg Biskakone Johnson:

It’s only going to progressively get worse and worse, and so our children and our grandchildren are going to inherit our mess, our mess that we made here.

Nathan Denzin:

Graveen says that for the last few years, he has been working with the Wisconsin DNR and the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service to secure protections for manoomin, which would at least insulate it from boats and dams.

Joe Graveen:

You can’t sit back and not say nothing, you know, cause that’s how important it is.

Nathan Denzin:

Until meaningful climate action or other interventions are put in place, manoomin is likely to continue its decline.

Greg Biskakone Johnson:

We have to tell our children that’s not how it should be in the future. You guys deserve better.

Nathan Denzin:

Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Nathan Denzin in Lac du Flambeau.

Frederica Freyberg:

Starting next week on this program, we bring you special reporting on the experience of Black people in Wisconsin through the generations.

Nathan Denzin:

I’m Nathan Denzin. Join us as PBS Wisconsin News embarks on special coverage, “Wisconsin in Black and White,” a look back and a look ahead at racial justice. A one-hour special in a series of reports starting next week.

Frederica Freyberg:

The premiere of Wisconsin in Black and White next Monday at 8:00 followed by weekly special reports on “Here & Now.” For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.