Here & Now

Here & Now for September 10, 2021

Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Zac Schultz:
Children return to the classroom around the state, as school districts carefully monitor for COVID outbreaks. Alcohol sales have soared during the pandemic, causing concern among mental health counselors.

Rebecca Kleefisch:
I today announce I am running for governor of the great state of Wisconsin!

[cheers and applause]

Zac Schultz:
And former lieutenant governor Rebecca Kleefisch announces she’s running for governor.
I’m Zac Schultz. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a northern school superintendent checks in on COVID and the start of the school year. Then State Superintendent Jill Underly gives us a statewide perspective. And an Eau Claire mental health counselor talks about the consequences of increased alcohol consumption during the pandemic. It’s “Here & Now” for September 10.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
We are one week into the school year and already we’re seeing children being quarantined at schools around the state in order to prevent further outbreaks of the COVID-19 virus. Each school district has come up with their own plan on how to handle this. First we head to northern Wisconsin and Claire Martin who is the interim district administrator at Lakeland Union High School based in Minocqua. Thanks for your time today.

Claire Martin:
Absolutely, happy to be here.

Zac Schultz:
One week in, have you had any confirmed cases of COVID-19 yet `in your school district this year?

Claire Martin:
Yes, we have.

Zac Schultz:
And how are you handling that? What’s the plan in place to deal with these outbreaks?

Claire Martin:
Well, when students are identified, most of them will connect with our school nurse. She’s the one that is keeping control of our data. And they are sent home to quarantine and there is no difference in our policy whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated because we’re a union high school, our students are eligible for vaccinations. They need to quarantine. If they have a negative test, then they can return to the school. They have to live out the duration of the quarantine but then they’re able to come back. We request they test within three to five days of symptoms.

Zac Schultz:
Lakeland Union is making masks optional. Was that your decision or the school board’s decision?

Claire Martin:
Well, that was a decision that was actually started before I arrived here. I’m new this year to the school district, so the previous administration was working on that plan and had brought it to the board’s attention prior to my coming. But then the board did approve a mask optional plan shortly before school started.

Zac Schultz:
Was there a lot of community outreach in that? I mean, how much did local politics play into a decision that big when we’re talking about students who are largely unvaccinated if they’re under the age of 12?

Claire Martin:
Right. Actually, we had two meetings regarding this. The first meeting was really a discussion where the plan was unveiled to the board. And I would say we had, I don’t know, maybe 10 to 12 community members that were there. It was very respectful. People offered their input to the board. The board took it into consideration. Then they held a second meeting where they noticed it on their agenda where they were going to vote and approve the plan. They made some changes to the plan at that point. Again, we had community members come forward, I would say 8 to 10. Most of those people were anti-mask people. We really didn’t hear from anyone in the community at either of those meetings that were pro-mask. The board also listened to the advice of their medical adviser at that meeting and then they proceeded to approve the plan.

Zac Schultz:
Now, at what point would you ask the school board to reconsider? For instance, a study by the CDC showed an outbreak in schools with no masks and no testing could infect 90% of students. Do you plan to keep looking at this if the outbreaks continue?

Claire Martin:
Absolutely. In fact, when the board approved the plan, I asked them to read a statement prior to the approval that gives the administration the ability to read the data, watch the trends and adjust the plan as needed. Clearly we’re going to have to bring those recommendations forward to our board and our community. But the understanding is this is very fluid and we’re going to have to be fluid along with the data and react accordingly. Our goal at Lakeland Union High School is to keep our school open every day of the school year. In order to do that, we may need to make some changes.

Zac Schultz:
Now, I’ve read that there isn’t a school district north of Stevens Point that is requiring masks this year. Do the communities in northern Wisconsin not worry about COVID-19 or do they think of it differently when it comes to students?

Claire Martin:
No. I don’t think so. I just think that it’s a highly personal decision, and I think that people, all people, whether they’re pro-mask or not pro-mask, are concerned about the health and safety of their children. It’s just become a very political issue, as you know, and in some cases unfortunately has become quite divisive in school districts and even in families. So we’re just trying to be sensitive to that and allow parents to make the best decision they can for their child.

Zac Schultz:
Now, on the Department of Health Services website it says the vaccination rate in Oneida County is around 60%, but obviously no kids under the age of 12 are vaccinated. Are you doing anything different in elementary schools as opposed to a high school where kids at least have a choice to be vaccinated?

Claire Martin:
Well, as you know, our district is only a high school district, so we only have high school students here, grades 9 through 12. I can’t speak to what the elementary schools might be doing in that regard.

Zac Schultz:
Now, are you testing in school or are you relying on parents getting their kids tested elsewhere and then notifying the school?

Claire Martin:
We’re requesting that families take their children to the Marshfield Clinic testing center, which is literally across the street from our high school, for testing. I know that some schools that don’t have health facilities quite as accessible as we do are testing within their school but we are not.

Zac Schultz:
The federal COVID Relief Bill sent a lot of money to schools to deal with the impact of the pandemic. How much money does your district have left and will that be enough if COVID outbreaks keep happening?

Claire Martin:
Well, my understanding is that there are three roll-outs of this funding. The first two roll-outs have already occurred. Lakeland Union High School has already expended most, if not all, of the first two allotments. The third is coming. It’s called ESSER funds and we’re anticipating that will be state approved maybe the end of this month, sometime in October and that will be a significant amount of funds that we will be able to use to help us in this — during these pandemic times.

Zac Schultz:
Now, Republicans in the state Legislature used the existence of that incoming federal funding to justify not increasing state aid to schools. We have just about a minute left. What does your overall budget look like for this coming school year?

Claire Martin:
Well, the ESSER are going to help us tremendously in providing support to kids that need it that have been really affected by this pandemic socially and emotionally. And so I’m glad that that in fact did not occur and that those funds are going to be here to help our students.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Claire Martin from Lakeland Union, thank you very much for your time today.

Claire Martin:
Thank you. Have a good night.

Zac Schultz:
Around the state, schools are facing the same choices as Lakeland Union and we’re joined now by State Superintendent of Schools Jill Underly. Thanks for your time today.

Jill Underly:
Absolutely. Nice to be here. Thank you.

Zac Schultz:
So what is your advice to schools when it comes to mandating masks in the classroom?

Jill Underly:
Well, I mean, I guess as well as any other kind of mitigation strategy, you know, masking is important for obvious reasons, right? It keeps the public safe. It keeps our kids safe. It keeps our schools open. So that would be my advice. If it’s mitigation strategy that keeps your schools open, then it needs to be taken under consideration.

Zac Schultz:
We’ve seen quite a few schools around the state that are doing a mask-optional approach. When it comes to what each school is doing, can we just look at the politics in that area to explain whether they’re mandating masks or is it not quite that simple?

Jill Underly:
I think a lot of it is politics, to be honest, and our schools are caught in the middle. When you have the CDC and scientists and medical experts recommending mitigation strategies that include masks, I believe we should be listening to that.

Zac Schultz:
Now, in the last year the Wisconsin Supreme Court has overturned a few sections of state law regarding what authority different state agencies have when it comes to dealing with the pandemic. In your capacity as state superintendent of schools, do you have the authority to mandate masks in classrooms?

Jill Underly:
No. As I’ve said before, whether it’s masks or other mitigation strategies, I mean, those are critical to fighting the pandemic and we need to keep our schools open and safe and I think that’s really what we need to be looking at.

Zac Schultz:
So this is simply a local issue? It’s not something the state should address?

Jill Underly:
Well, it’s really difficult for me to answer that question other than the fact that if we know it works and the deal is that we want to keep our schools open and safe, that’s something the local school boards should be looking at as a good mitigation strategy. And if it works, then that’s what they should be doing because our primary is to keep our kids safe and to keep our schools open so that all kids can learn. If that’s what the science indicates, that’s what we should be doing.

Zac Schultz:
In that line of thought, if the DPI was to issue an order or rule, could that then be overturned by Republicans on the Joint Committee of Review of Administrative Rules, the one that’s overturned some of the other proposed rules regarding masks and other mandates?

Jill Underly:
I don’t like to speculate on things like that, because I don’t know what would happen with that. I wouldn’t want to make a call like that on a public television show either way. I can’t speculate.

Zac Schultz:
If there are politics, local politics that are impacting the ability of district administrators to make choices about keeping kids safe, at what point is it incumbent on either you or the governor, someone else to take the heat politically and to give them cover by making that mandate broader instead of leaving them to the whims of local politics at their school board level?

Jill Underly:
I understand. School boards and school district administrators are caught in the middle of this. Our teachers and our kids are caught in the middle of something that should not be political. When you look at it on the surface, look at vaccines and you look at public health throughout the centuries, I mean we’ve had vaccines for 200 years and we know things work. That’s what’s really sad to me about the whole situation, is we’re talking about kids. We’re talking about lives. We’re talking about schools. And for something to become political, it’s just really unfortunate that non-educator adults are inserting themselves into a conversation and making something controversial when it shouldn’t be. It should be what do we need to do to keep our kids safe? What do we need to do keep our schools open? And when 500,000 kids are ineligible for a vaccine at this time, we need to do what it takes and that is to follow the science and that is to follow the medical advice. And we push out the information to our school districts to give them that backstop, if you will, so they can say, look, this is what the CDC recommends, this is what the federal government is recommending, you know, through IDEA, which is the special education law and this is what the DPI also recommends, too. And I don’t know what else we could potentially do because we are a local-controlled state other than give them the information and hope they make the best decisions.

Zac Schultz:
Speaking of local control, last night the Milwaukee School Board voted to mandate vaccines for all employees. Should this be the policy everywhere?

Jill Underly:
Well, I think, again, if it’s a strong mitigation strategy, we know vaccines are a strong mitigation strategy, and if that’s what the school board decides to do to mitigate COVID in their community, then that’s, you know, good for that school board to make that decision.

Zac Schultz:
Now, current law requires students to be immunized for polio, MMR, hepatitis B, varicella, others. Do you think eventually COVID will make that list of vaccines that are required for students entering public school?

Jill Underly:
If they can get a student vaccine, yes, I do. Obviously we know it’s highly communicable. We know that the older you are, if you’ve got underlying health conditions, that you will — you have a more likelihood to be hospitalized. And public safety is one of those things with public health we have to pay strict attention to, especially in settings like school where communicable diseases can spread easily.

Zac Schultz:
There’s an old adage about learning from other people’s mistakes as opposed to yours. Why are so many schools waiting for a COVID outbreak and quarantine before changing their mask mandates or some of their vaccine requirements? Why aren’t we seeing ahead to what’s happening as opposed to waiting until it happens in a lot of these school districts?

Jill Underly:
It’s really tough right now to be an educator. And it’s really tough to be a school board member. I think our political environment has something to do with that. I think there’s certainly a lot of pressure, a lot of peer pressure. Again, we’re talking about something that shouldn’t be political. We’re talking about public health. If we were talking about lead in our water, for example, or if we were talking about, you know, measles outbreak, I think people — again, why does this have to be political? Why do our schools have to be in the middle of this when all we want to do is make sure we can keep our schools open and keep our kids and keep our staff safe?

Zac Schultz:
Now, COVID caseloads are rising around the state. Is there any point at which you would consider recommending closing down schools statewide again or will it always be a case-by-case decision at this point?

Jill Underly:
Well, currently I know that public health county can close down schools when there’s a flu outbreak. As a school district administrator the past seven years, we came close one or two semesters where in one of my buildings we had to communicate regularly with our county health. I don’t see COVID being any different. I mean, certainly there’s some differences in how fast it can spread. Certainly there are some differences, you know. Flu is a lot more obvious I think in some places because COVID we know people can be asymptomatic. So it’s going to be very important that people get the vaccine, that they get the flu vaccine as well as the COVID vaccine if they’re eligible. But making sure that we can keep tabs on these cases, making sure that we have a regular testing is going to be very important.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Dr. Underly, thank you for your time today.

Jill Underly:
You bet. Thank you.

Zac Schultz:
A new report shows Wisconsinites have been drinking a lot more since the start of the pandemic. The Public Policy Forum says tax revenue from alcohol sales in the state increased by nearly 17% in the last fiscal year. That’s the largest increase since 1972 when the state lowered the drinking age. While many take pride in Wisconsin’s cultural heritage of drinking and fellowship there are those who deal with the ramifications of alcohol abuse and we’re joined now by Luke Fedie, a behavioral health administrator with Eau Claire County. Thanks for your time today.

Luke Fedie:
Thanks for having me, Zac.

Zac Schultz:
What are you seeing in Eau Claire when it comes to alcohol and other drug abuse?

Luke Fedie:
So we’re certainly seeing an increased use, particularly for a number of different reasons. So many individuals throughout the pandemic have lost some of the healthy ways that they’ve typically worked to manage stress or cope. Those individuals who spend time with friends, participate in social events to help manage stress have had to find different ways to cope and unfortunately sometimes because of the availability of alcohol and acceptability of the use of alcohol, that can be a quick fix for people to lean into. You know, as mental health providers, it’s imperative that we always continue to assess a client’s use of alcohol and look for those symptoms of dependence and abuse. Alcohol in and of itself, moderate use of alcohol can be relatively innocuous. What we want to look for are times when an individual feels like they might need that alcohol in order to function. Say they need it to go to work in the morning, they need it to go to bed at night. That’s when it becomes dysfunctional and that’s when we really want to do a further level of assessment to look at what’s getting in the way of them functioning without that drug. The other thing to think about is this could lead to larger issues, like legal problems, poor physical health and can certainly exacerbate the symptoms of mental illness.

Zac Schultz:
Did you see an increase at the beginning of the pandemic or was there a lag before you started seeing an increase for people needing services?

Luke Fedie:
So we’re starting to see an increase now. We certainly saw a little blip at the beginning of the pandemic. But as time has gone on, we’re seeing more and more people kind of regress into using alcohol as a coping skill. Unfortunately, it’s not the most effective coping skill. If anything oftentimes it can worsen someone’s symptoms of mental illness. It is in and of itself a central nervous system depressant. Sometimes what we end up seeing is symptoms become worse when someone’s using alcohol. So they fall into this cycle of drinking because they’re depressed and stay depressed because they’re drinking. So as the level of anxiety and depression rises for individuals, really across the entire world, in the event of the pandemic, you know, because that’s part of what we’ve seen as well is an increased level of anxiety and depression. People are resorting to finding ways to cope, some more healthy than others.

Zac Schultz:
How much of this is people being isolated, either working from home or having lost a job? Is there a tendency for people to be day drinking or is this more of binge drinking?

Luke Fedie:
So it’s an interesting question because certainly isolation is easier now than it had been in the past. Because again, some of those social events aren’t happening and so it’s easier for people to withdraw or to stay withdrawn. You know, I can’t speak to every case that’s happening, but we do know that it’s easier for individuals to isolate, withdraw and oftentimes alcohol abuse is a secretive behavior. So when someone doesn’t have that kind of check and balance of having people around them, it might be easier for them to fall into that use.

Zac Schultz:
Now, how has the pandemic impacted the ability of people to seek help if they need it or if they recognize they need it?

Luke Fedie:
Sure. So many, many clinics have shifted into providing some telehealth services. That’s been a blessing because we have the technology to be able to do that. We also know that that doesn’t work well for everybody. Some people need that face-to-face connection. And there certainly are clinics that with the proper PPE and protection can provide that face-to-face level as well. We here at Eau Claire County Department of Human Services have a clinic that’s certified in AODA or alcohol and other drug services and we will often provide telehealth services for individuals and if they need that level of face-to-face care, we find ways to make that work as well. The good news is we have the technology to do telehealth, to offer it to really anybody anywhere. The bad news is it doesn’t always fit for everybody. So we want to make sure we’re doing what’s clinically indicated for the folks we’re seeing.

Zac Schultz:
What should family and friends be looking for and how can they help if they recognize the signs?

Luke Fedie:
Well, certainly one of the things to look for is again that social isolation or that withdrawal. Checking in with somebody, really just asking the question, “How you doing,” right? I know in the Midwest it’s easy for us to say, “Fine” and move on and really thinking about digging a little bit deeper. How you doing. I haven’t seen you. This is what I’m concerned about. If there are specific behaviors an individual is engaging in that’s concerning, bring those behaviors up with that individual. Tell them you’re concerned about them. Ask them what’s going on. If they say that they need help or are indicating that they may have a problem, encourage them to seek help and maybe even help them connect with the resources available.

Zac Schultz:
Now, does the state and do the counties have enough resources to handle this increase in need?

Luke Fedie:
So, Zac, that always becomes the biggest issue, right? It’s the capacity to manage the need. I can tell you that we here at Eau Claire Department of Human Services have a wait list in our clinic. We try to continue, in most clinics try to triage as folks come in and depending on the level of need and level of care they’re needing, respond immediately. So if someone comes in with an emergent or crisis-based need, we’re certainly trying to respond to that. And at the same time there’s always going to be room for growth. I would love to have more services within our community, more sober living kinds of homes, things that really tend to serve the community well. We’re always looking for more because this is not an issue that’s going to go away and it’s probably not an issue that’s going to slow as time goes on.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Luke Fedie from Eau Claire County, thank you for your time today.

Luke Fedie:
Thank you, Zac.

Zac Schultz:
It’s official. Former lieutenant governor Rebecca Kleefisch will run for governor in 2022. At her announcement in Waukesha on Thursday, Kleefisch criticized incumbent Governor Tony Evers in a variety of ways, including how he handled schools during the pandemic.

Rebecca Kleefisch:
How many of us in this room have been frustrated by Tony Evers’ weak leadership in our schools, education across the state, where he shut them down and locked kids out for a year and a half? Just watching them in an epidemic of anxiety and depression and a year and a half of learning loss so he could pay homage to the teachers’ union bosses.

Zac Schultz:
Governor Evers’ campaign released this statement regarding the Kleefisch announcement. “Rebecca Kleefisch already left a devastating mark on Wisconsin after eight years of attacking public schools, slashing transportation funding and supporting massive handouts to corporations.”
Now to troubled waters on Lake Superior. That’s where a controversial proposal in Bayfield County seeks to draw from the lake’s watershed so it can be bottled and sold. The proposal takes advantage of a technicality in the Great Lakes Compact. Marisa Wojcik spoke with Professor David Strifling, director of the Water Law and Policy Initiative at the Marquette Law School about why this is causing alarm.

Marisa Wojcik:
Now, what I’ve heard most is that this could set a new precedent. Do you agree with that? Could this allow other companies to come in and follow suit to large quantity?

David Strifling:
So it seems to me that the compact already sort of permits that kind of activity. So if you’re talking about the compact, I’m not sure that this is anything new as compared to what’s been done in other places. What really makes this interesting is the collision between the county’s land use authority on the one hand and the DNR’s authority over water use, groundwater use in the state on the other. And that’s how the parties are kind of framing up this case. Crystal Clear says this is just a question for the DNR and the county shouldn’t have any role at all here. If the DNR says the well is okay, they should be good to go. The county on the other hand says, no, we’ve got authority over land use regulation here and you need a conditional use permit to operate. So when or if this case ends up in court, I think that’s going to be the primary issue. You talked about precedent. Now, if it turns out that the applicant doesn’t need any conditional use permit from the county, then conceivably all of the surrounding neighbors could also decide to do the same thing and operate their own bottled water facilities and then you might see an impact if you don’t already in the local groundwater table drawdowns of nearby surface waters, that type of thing, effects on the watershed in which the bottling is taking place. The volumes of water we’re talking about here at least for now are not going to draw down Lake Superior. They’re pretty small amounts of water. But if that amount increases in the future or if other neighbors decide to do the same thing, then you could start to see effects, at least in the watershed if not in the lake.

Zac Schultz:
You can find Marisa Wojcik’s complete interview with David Strifling by going to PBSwisconsin.org and clicking on the news page. That’s all for tonight’s program. I’m Zac Schultz. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.