Announcer:

The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2022 election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:

The newly released nation’s report card renews Wisconsin’s reputation in racial disparities. Early voting began this week as Election Day rapidly draws near. Turnout based on the issue of abortion could determine the next governor. And legislation vetoed under Evers that would likely pass under a Michels administration.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Zac Schultz looks at the impact of abortion law on the midterms. Plus, what possible election outcomes will mean for state GOP legislation. And the state’s Department of Public Instruction responds to a bleak report card for Black students. It’s “Here & Now” for October 28.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

During midterm elections, victory often comes down to one thing: which party does a better job of getting their voters to the polls or turn out. This fall, Democrats are hoping the issue of abortion will not only energize their base, but pull in swing voters who may have voted Republican in the past when Roe v. Wade was still the law of the land. “Here & Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz has the story.

Protesters:

When abortion rights are under attack, what do we do? Stand up, fight back!

Zac Schultz:

When the United States Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade, they overturned the constitutional right for women to seek an abortion. But they also overturned decades of conventional wisdom on just how much the issue of abortion can impact an election.

[chanting]

Amaya Barker:

It was kind of this crazy, like, jaw-dropping moment of, like, oh, my God, they did it.

Zac Schultz:

Amaya Barker is a volunteer for Planned Parenthood Advocates of Wisconsin, the organizing arm of Planned Parenthood. She says there was an immediate surge in the number of people looking to get involved.

Amaya Barker:

I’ve just seen a lot more people being like, wow, I actually have to do something now about this. Sarah Berndsen signed up, and her first event was the Bayview Bash in Milwaukee, where the point was to remind people Planned Parenthood was still open providing healthcare services, just not abortions.

Sarah Berndsen:

It’s been a really positive reaction. We have had people coming up really appreciative that we’re out here providing information.

Zac Schultz:

While their stand didn’t advocate for any political candidates, the Democratic Party of Milwaukee County was next door and abortion rights were front and center.

Ben Wikler:

Many, many voters, especially women across the state, it has been something that has galvanized a level of kind of political outrage and commitment to change that will reshape this election this fall.

Zac Schultz:

Ben Wikler is the chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. He thinks abortion will swing votes everywhere, not just Milwaukee and Madison.

Ben Wikler:

If you knock on doors in rural Wisconsin, in suburbs, in cities alike, there are people even who voted Republican before who think this is much too far.

Jessa Michie:

I was very shocked by the, just the sheer response that people had in this area.

Zac Schultz:

Jessa Michie is a digital organizer for Planned Parenthood Advocates based in Stevens Point in central Wisconsin. She says they were overwhelmed at first by the number of people looking to volunteer.

Jessa Michie:

A lot of people who haven’t done this before, this really activated a lot of folks who were brand new to it.

Zac Schultz:

The focus now is translating that energy into turnout.

Jessa Michie:

We’re very, very focused on voting. Getting out the vote is the most important thing that we can do at this point in Wisconsin.

Gracie Skogman:

These are our materials. And as you can see, this is focusing on our congressional candidates.

Zac Schultz:

Planned Parenthood Advocates isn’t the only group talking about abortion with voters. Gracie Skogman is a legislative director for Wisconsin Right to Life.

Gracie Skogman:

The goal is that we can go to any voter, regardless of where they stand, and give them something that we hope ultimately will encourage them to support pro-life candidates. Hi, how are you?

Man:

Good, how are you?

Gracie Skogman:

Good to see you.

Zac Schultz:

Skogman says the case that overturned Roe, Dobbs vs Jackson, was a victory but not the end of the debate.

Gracie Skogman:

We’ve seen that people, of course, are rejoicing and happy, but then they think that it’s time to go home and stop talking about this. But it’s more important now than ever before.

Zac Schultz:

She says it can be a delicate conversation.

Gracie Skogman:

I went earlier this week and people were…

Woman:

Not so receptive?

Gracie Skogman:

Not so receptive. We know that this is a very emotional and polarizing issue, right, on both sides of the aisle.

Zac Schultz:

Wisconsin Right to Life would like to shift the conversation to what comes next. Specifically, whether a Republican governor and legislature will provide state funding to pregnancy resource centers. The non-profits that often open up across the street from abortion clinics and counsel pregnant women away from abortion.

Gracie Skogman:

I think our best way to move forward is on the unifying issue of pregnancy resource centers, having conversations about paid family leave. These are bipartisan issues.

Zac Schultz:

Jessa Michie says voters aren’t quite ready to move on.

Jessa Michie:

I definitely think that people still have more to say and a lot more feelings about losing that access to care. I don’t think that folks are ready to move on at all. I think that they’re more angry about this and more energized than they were before.

TV announcer:

He said it’s “not unreasonable for the state government to mandate rape victims to give birth.”

Zac Schultz:

Democratic Governor Tony Evers is hoping to capitalize on that energy. He’s been running ads hitting his opponent, Republican Tim Michels, on abortion.

Woman:

Tim Michels is way too radical for Wisconsin.

Tony Evers:

Do I think it’s an important issue in the race? Yes. Look at where my opponent is on this and on that issue. So do I think it’s going to be a factor? Yes, absolutely.

Paul Farrow:

Almost every single attack that’s out there on Republican candidates has to do with Dobbs.

Zac Schultz:

Paul Farrow is the chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin. He says the Evers’ ads are over the top.

Paul Farrow:

I think our conversation of making sure the health of the woman and health of the child is just as important, is kind of tampering down what the left is saying that we’re trying to criminalize women left and right.

Tim Michels:

Governor Evers and the left have spent tens of millions of dollars mischaracterizing my position, calling me a radical. I am pro-life and I make no apologies for that. But I’ll tell you who the real radical is. The real radical is Governor Evers.

Zac Schultz:

Tim Michels did not agree to an interview for this story but has had trouble being consistent in his position on abortion. Without the protection of Roe v. Wade, Wisconsin reverted back to an 1849 law on abortion that only provides exceptions if two doctors feel it is needed to save the life of the mother. Michels originally campaigned on his support for that law but has since said he would support a bill that provides exceptions for rape and incest.

Tim Michels:

I’ve said if a bill is put before me from the legislature, which is a direct representation of the people, and it has an exception in it for rape and incest, that I would sign that bill.

Zac Schultz:

A few days later, Michels added another change.

Tim Michels:

I will never arrest a doctor, as they’re saying. I’m a reasonable guy.

Zac Schultz:

However, under the 1849 law, doctors providing an abortion can be arrested, and his campaign had to clarify that Michels just wouldn’t be the one doing the arresting. Saying, the district attorneys should enforce all laws. The governor is an executive. He’s not a DA or beat cop arresting anyone. Evers doesn’t buy it.

Tony Evers:

There’s no way I believe it and no way people in Wisconsin believe you can have this hard core, something that’s part of your insides position that rape or incest is not something that you should exclude from this law. Never. This is important for me because of my convictions. And then all of a sudden, the next day you say, well, I guess I don’t have any convictions.

Zac Schultz:

Michie says Michels is muddying the water.

Jessa Michie:

That’s the intention, I think, in a lot of cases is to just sort of muddle the issue and confuse people.

Zac Schultz:

However, Gracie Skogman is clear on where Wisconsin Right to Life stands.

Gracie Skogman:

Our position is we are not in favor of adding a rape and incest exception.

Man:

My only concern is, let’s say there’s a rape case.

Zac Schultz:

Even if their voters at the doors have a different opinion. Reporting from Madison, I’m Zac Schultz, for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

As to prosecuting abortion cases, in the heated race for attorney general, questions repeatedly came up during a debate Thursday referencing a PBS Wisconsin report on the candidates that touched on the matter.

Josh Kaul:

What I think is important to note though is Mr. Toney said direct to the camera, he’s on video saying that one of the things he thinks we should consider is to allow DAs to cross county lines. It’s another example of this point that as attorney general, what you say matters. You don’t get to walk it back weeks later because people will make policy decisions based on what you’ve said.

Eric Toney:

The full context of the quote was asked about DAs that wouldn’t prosecute certain crimes. We have a couple statues on the books right now – election fraud and state ethics codes – that actually allow a district attorney to prosecute in an adjoining county if the DA of that county refuses to prosecute. So I use it as an analogy to say our attorney general should have authority if a DA is refusing to prosecute and that would be another option. I never expressly advocated for it.

Frederica Freyberg:

In a new article, reporter Zac Schultz provides the full question and answer at issue which you can find by going to PBSwisconsin.org and then clicking on the news page.

On the matter of education, the candidates for governor have very different ideas about how to help learning outcomes for K-12 students in Wisconsin. Republican Tim Michels wants to expand private school choice to all students. Democrat Tony Evers wants to pump an extra $2 billion into education funding. Relatedly, what’s called the nation’s report card this fall showed overall Wisconsin students held steady in math and reading while nation-wide pandemic declines were worse. But the grim headline from the report for this state: once again, Wisconsin leads the nation in test score gaps between white and Black students.

In a pull-out from the report card for 8th grade math: “in 2022, Black students had an average score that was 53 points lower than for white students. Not significantly different, it said, from 2003.” Why is this happening and what is being done about it? We turn to the state Department of Public Instruction and its communications director, Abigail Swetz. Thank you for being here.

Abigail Swetz:

Of course, thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the younger grades, fourth grade math gaps showed Black students average scores were 48 points lower than for white students with reading scores 40 points lower. How is this happening?

Abigail Swetz:

It’s the right question to ask because it’s where we really need to be putting our focus and our resources. When we talk about these gaps, often people talk about them as an achievement gap. I’m really glad we are starting to stop using that phrase because achievement is an output, like test scores. What we need to be looking at is what are the inputs? What’s the opportunities that not all students are really able to access? That’s why we should be and we are starting to call it an opportunity gap, which is why what we can do is provide those opportunities and provide those resources in ways that we haven’t been able to in the past. I think one of the things that we can look at the most in that is what can we do in our budget to make sure that the students who need resources the most are the students who are getting them.

Frederica Freyberg:

There is also discussion among some experts that these standardized tests are biased in favor of white students because they are written by white people. Are they not possibly capturing the true skills and potential of Black students?

Abigail Swetz:

I think when you think about whether or not we are capturing the true potential of the student, you have to realize that no one test can do that. No one anything can do that and it’s one of the reasons the NAEP scores are an important window, but only one window into understanding where our students are really at in Wisconsin. Where are each student — where is each student at: Black students, white students, any students. When we think about what is a problem potentially with a certain standardized assessment, it’s why it’s really helpful that teachers are every day also collecting other kinds of data in their classrooms with comprehension checks and community building and discussions. When you put it all together, you gain a better understanding of where is a student at and how can we grow them even further. It’s one of the reasons we are so thankful we are able to really stay in contact with the field and it’s one of the reasons we pay attention a lot to those other kinds of data points as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

The pandemic may have made it worse, but this is a decades-long gap where the needle really has not moved. What about that?

Abigail Swetz:

It’s incredibly unfortunate and frankly unacceptable. It was unacceptable before. It’s unacceptable now and it’s why we need to really make focused investments to try and move that needle. I’ll give you an example. One of the places we are seeing the most struggle, in addition to this gap we’re talking about, is that students who are struggling before are struggling even more now. It’s the lower scores, we saw the steepest decline. It’s one of the many reasons we are trying to really increase our reimbursement rate for special education funding in Wisconsin because we think not all students in that category are special ed students. But it is a way to really move that needle and to make sure that the funds that are designed to get to where they need to get really, really do impact where we need them to impact.

Frederica Freyberg:

Clearly generations of Black students in Wisconsin are being left behind. What does that mean for all of Wisconsin?

Abigail Swetz:

It’s the right question again because I think we have to remember our schools and our communities and our students are so interconnected. We say all the time our students are our future. Our children are our future. That’s true whether we prepare them well or not. So we absolutely have to prepare them well. And it’s one of the reasons we are also looking at when we say opportunity gap, we also need to look at where is the representation gap? We need to diversify our teacher pipeline to make sure our students see themselves reflected in the leaders in their classroom and also in the curriculum that’s in front of them.

Frederica Freyberg:

With only about a minute left, as to overall scores, they may not have slipped over the pandemic like other states, but across grades the percentage of students testing proficient or above that is well below half, mostly in the 30% range. Where should Wisconsin be?

Abigail Swetz:

We should be not satisfied with where we are. We are on a journey in this. In terms of COIVD, we’re on a recovery journey, but even if we were further than we are today, we would want to keep growing. I think you have to remember this kind of journey is not linear. It requires a whole lot of work and that’s the kind of work we are committed to doing here at the Department of Public Instruction.

Frederica Freyberg:

Abigail Swetz, DPI, thanks very much.

Abigail Swetz:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

When it comes to high school students in Wisconsin, what kinds of issues are they thinking about heading into the mid-term elections? We spanned out across the state in late September to find out. As campaigns are putting focus on crime and gun control, we found the specter of school shootings weighs on students’ minds as they go about their day.

Bella Ruston:

It’s kind of one of those things where I think now it’s just — it just is. And it’s just another one of those things where you go to school and you know there’s a possibility of something happening.

Genesis Liebhaber:

Every single day we walk in a school, there’s always that little part in your mind that’s like, is today going to be the day? Am I going to be on the news?

Lily Olson:

All my siblings go to a different school so I have siblings in a different school. And it’s nerve-racking knowing that people would put kids that young in harm’s way. And it could happen at any moment.

McKenna Dehn:

I think about that a lot, especially with the new shootings that have been going on. I mean, it’s been going on forever. But, like, it’s — I feel like it’s been more broadcasted, especially these days. I’m like always thinking like, okay, where’s the closest exit?

Kolton Teichmiller:

There’s always that little thought in the back of my mind that what if something happened and we had a scare like that last year here, and most of the kids stayed away from school in fear of the fact that that might happen to us.

Dakota Jaloszynski:

I know here and there we’ve talked — schools have talked about like bigger school shootings and stuff like that. But I think it was about two weeks ago or last week there was a threat on the school and I ended up staying home because I honestly feared that I — it could have been real.

Makenzie Hobbs:

School safety is essential to the learning environment. You shouldn’t go to class fearing for your life. You shouldn’t. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Frederica Freyberg:

Our thanks to the PBS Wisconsin Education department for their help gathering those student interviews. They were conducted at schools across the state including at two PBS NewsHour Student Reporting Lab schools.

Now, we turn to a possibility that’s rare in political history. That would be a legislative super-majority in Wisconsin. While Republicans have strong majorities in both the Assembly and Senate right now, they’re striving for even greater control to make their legislation veto-proof. “Here & Now’s” Steven Potter breaks down how Republicans can achieve a super-majority in this Fast Facts report.

Tony Evers:

Senate Bill 210 not approved.

Steven Potter:

Over the past four years, Democratic Governor Tony Evers has vetoed a record-setting 146 bills sent to him by the Republican-controlled state legislature. These vetoes have included everything from education and voting restrictions to pandemic policies and new state welfare requirements. But Governor Evers’ ability to veto, or stop, the legislation he disagrees with could soon come to an end. That would happen if Republicans achieve what’s called a ‘supermajority,’ which would allow the legislature to override a governor’s veto. To do this, Republicans would need to win elections in two-thirds of the seats in both the state Senate and state Assembly. As it stands right now, Republicans have a 61 to 38 majority over Democrats in the state Assembly. They would need to take an additional five seats from Democrats in the November election to achieve a 66-seat supermajority in that chamber. In the Senate, Republicans currently have a 21 to 12 majority over Democrats. To achieve a two-thirds supermajority there, Republicans would only need to flip one seat. In order to override a governor’s veto, both the state Senate and Assembly must vote to do so. One chamber cannot override a veto alone. In the event that Republican challenger Tim Michels wins the governor’s election on November 8, overriding a veto will likely prove unnecessary as Republicans will have complete control over all lawmaking bodies of state government. The last time one political party had a two-thirds supermajority in both the state Senate and Assembly was in 1977 and the controlling party was Democrats. And the last time a veto was overridden was part of the state budget bill in 1985. For “Here & Now,” I’m Steven Potter.

Frederica Freyberg:

As you just heard, if Republicans win a veto-proof majority and Democrat Tony Evers wins re-election, his days of easily overturning bills would be over. But if Republican Tim Michels wins the election, what bills that Evers vetoed would likely become law? To look at these possible election outcomes, we turn to Shawn Johnson, capitol bureau chief for Wisconsin Public Radio. Nice to see you.

Shawn Johnson:

Good to see you.

Frederica Freyberg:

How does Governor Tony Evers’ veto record stack up in history?

Shawn Johnson:

It turns out that over a two-year session, Tony Evers has the record. Ever since Wisconsin has been a state. Going back to 1848, no governor has vetoed more bills in a two-year session than he has, 126. The next closest is like 90. Evers has it by a mile. If you are watching this session thinking, hey, it doesn’t look like they are getting along too well, you are factually, objectively correct.

Frederica Freyberg:

In these 126 vetoes, they covered everything from election law changes, COVID bills, K-12 law changes, legislation on guns, abortion, and even child labor laws. Which stand out most to you?

Shawn Johnson:

If you ask which stand out in terms of the campaign we are watching right now, I would say not very many of them, really. It feels like the candidates are running on themes that you see from Republicans and Democrats everywhere. Tim Michels is running against Evers as — saying he’s soft on crime, talking about his parole commission. Evers is talking about Tim Michels’ record on opposing abortion going back to when he was a Senate candidate in 2004. That’s what they are talking about. They are not really talking about these vetoes. That said, there is significant stuff in there. There is around 20 bills that Republicans passed related to election law changes, including a ban on private grants to help run elections. There are some pretty significant changes to education in Wisconsin proposed in these bills, including one that would lift all caps on the private school voucher program. No more enrollment caps, no more income limitations for the program. That would be a substantial change to Wisconsin law. So there is a lot in there in all of these bills. Some of it is getting talked about, just not as much as these larger themes you see.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do these bills that were vetoed represent a blueprint for Republicans?

Shawn Johnson:

In a way, I think they do. We just mentioned it’s often referred to by Tim Michels as this universal school choice plan. Historically in Wisconsin, the school choice lobby has kind of moved incrementally. Raise the income limitations for the choice program a little bit this session. A little bit this session. Expand it to Racine, then expand it statewide. Kind of step by step. This is like everything here. And I think by passing it, getting the legislature on record to support this bill, even if they knew Governor Evers was going to veto it, they now have Tim Michels talking about it. Everybody is on the record in Republican politics saying, “let’s do this.” It kind of does set a blueprint for a Republican governor should Tim Michels win to take some of these sweeping steps quickly.

Frederica Freyberg:

What else might be first out of the blocks?

Shawn Johnson:

I think those election bills would be coming pretty fast because the Republican base has said they want them. And I also think that there is probably not all the changes Republicans are going to be doing when it comes to election laws. There is going to be a push to possibly eliminate the Wisconsin Elections Commission. There a whole bunch there Republicans talked about in their primary campaign the Republican base wants. We have an election coming up in 2024 that’s going to be pretty closely watched here in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would all of these bills conceivably come back or is with some of it just Republicans trying to draw the veto to message the base?

Shawn Johnson:

I think what you just said there is a very good possibility for some of them. I don’t know if you remember this but we had a talk like this in 2010, when you had a Democrat governor who vetoed Republican bills. Suddenly Republicans had all the power. We went through a list of what might they pass. They did pass some of that stuff that they had sent to get vetoed but not all of it. There was other stuff that was not on the list like, I don’t know, Act 10, right? So I don’t think you can look at this veto list and say well, that’s obviously everything they are going to do next year. There are some bills on there. For example one that would exempt all guns made in Wisconsin from any federal firearm laws. It would prohibit federal bans on assault weapons. That’s pretty broad stuff. They might pass it again but we just don’t know.

Frederica Freyberg:

It does suffice to say point to the high stakes for both sides in this election.

Shawn Johnson:

For sure.

Frederica Freyberg:

Shawn Johnson, thanks very much.

Shawn Johnson:

Thanks Fred.

Frederica Freyberg:

Next week, Zac Schultz is on the campaign trail with the candidates for governor. For more on the statewide races and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. Also, turn to WisconsinVote.org for up-to-date election coverage and information, including real-time results on election night. That is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.