Announcer:

A PBS Wisconsin original production. The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:

This week absentee in-person voting begins in Wisconsin, with lines of voters turning out at the polls. Even as different lines continue to form around the state. Lines for COVID tests, a reflection of the record pace of infections in a week that saw another grim benchmark.

Tony Evers:

48 Wisconsin lives were lost yesterday alone. This was the highest single day number of deaths in the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Another week of COVID-19 and presidential politics tonight on “Here & Now.” 11 days until Election Day. Our political panelists McCoshen and Ross are here to mop up after last night’s debate and look ahead to the final hours of the presidential race. Zac Schultz reports from the campaign trail tonight about how the fortunes of down-ballot candidates are tied to the success of Trump or Biden. And later, how COVID-19 misinformation infects the internet and how some people view the disease. It’s “Here & Now” for October 23.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

As we head into the final days before the November 3rd election, was the final debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden a win, lose or draw for them? We dive into the debate and where we stand 11 days out with our political panelists: Republican Bill McCoshen and Democrat Scot Ross. Thanks to both of you for being here.

Bill McCoshen:

Thanks for having us.

Scot Ross:

Great to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So first, your overall reaction to the final match-up between Trump and Biden. Will either performance move the needle? First to you, Bill.

Bill McCoshen:

Historically they don’t have a huge impact, but I thought Trump was the clear winner last night for a variety of reasons. Number one, his tone, his style, his calmness, his command of the fact but more importantly, he made this a choice election. He was able to draw a sharp contrast between he and Biden. He being the outsider gone to DC to shake things up versus a 47-year career politician who doesn’t have a lot to show for it. So I thought on balance, Trump accomplished what he needed to accomplish. Now there’s 3 or 4 or 5% undecided. That was his target audience last night and I think he gave himself a chance. I think he did better with the undecided voters last night than Biden did.

Frederica Freyberg:

Scot, a win, lose or draw here for Biden?

Scot Ross:

I think it was a big win for Biden. I mean he needed to go in there and establish that he is the mature adult in the room who has a plan to deal with the most important things facing this country: the pandemic, the economic situation, systematic racism and climate change. And he showed that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have a plan for all four of those. In contrast, Donald Trump said we’ve rounded the corner and, you know, it’s going away when it comes to the pandemic. We have seen that science, you know, is a lot more powerful than Donald Trump and his handling of the pandemic has been a disaster for the people of Wisconsin and people all over the country. That I think is what people are going to be left with after that race. Joe Biden had a plan. Donald Trump offered more of the same, which was nothing.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We’re going to get more into that in a moment, but we invited each of you to choose a clip from the debate and we’re going to start with yours, Bill, from Donald Trump. So here it is.

Donald Trump:

Why didn’t he get it done? See, it’s all talk, no action with these politicians. Why didn’t he get it done? That’s what I’m going to do when I become president. You were vice president along with Obama as your president, your leader, for eight years. Why didn’t you get it done? You had eight years to get it done.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, Bill, he’s talking here about criminal justice reform?

Bill McCoshen:

Well, he used this same line in almost every topic last night. He was trying to remind voters of why they supported him four years ago in 2016 as the outsider to go to DC to shake things up. They didn’t want more of the same. They did not want the status quo. More importantly, Frederica, he was trying to draw a contrast with Biden that Biden is an insider, the ultimate insider who’s been there for 47 years and again, doesn’t have much to show for it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Scot, Biden in that clip was talking about a federal law passed in the ’80s sending people to prison for drugs. He said it was a mistake. Is that a good or bad decision on Joe Biden’s part?

Scot Ross:

I think anytime you’re honest with the American people, it’s important. And let’s remember that the Crime Bill, for the many flaws that it had, also was the thing that kept automatic weapons off the street. I mean talk to a kid right now who has to — who when they were in school would have to do preparation drills. The idea, you know, to tell them, hey, at one point in time we actually banned automatic weapons. The fact is that Donald Trump, he — the — I would say this. The one mistake that Joe Biden made was that he didn’t quickly point out, listen, the entire Republican strategy has been to block everything that President Obama tried to do and we’re seeing it now with Senator Ron Johnson being the single person in Wisconsin most response for people not getting an extension of their unemployment benefits, for preventing the $1200 in the Hero Act that was passed by the House Democrats back in May. The obstructionism of the Republicans should be on the ballot because we need to move forward and they don’t want to do anything because it might compromise them politically.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m going to move along now to the next clip and this one, Scot, you chose. Let’s take a listen.

Joe Biden:

220,000 Americans dead. If you hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who’s responsible for not taking control, in fact not saying I take no responsibility initially, anyone who’s responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, Scot, President Trump’s response to COVID-19 is what voters most care about especially in Wisconsin where latest positive numbers we saw today hit over 4300 again?

Scot Ross:

Absolutely. I mean the Republicans and Trump have ignored science and they ignored the need to even wear masks and instead have turned it into some sort of political Republican litmus test. The fact is that — it should be a point of patriotic pride that people wear masks to protect not just themselves but their neighbors as well. Donald Trump has done exactly the opposite of that. And as you said, Wisconsin has, this past week, had the single most — had a day with the single most number of cases, over 4200. We have had our death rate go up for the first time since June. 1730 Wisconsinites have lost their lives because of this pandemic that the Republicans did nothing to prevent.

Frederica Freyberg:

Bill, I’m going to give you a chance to jump in on this. Clearly a very serious, frightening situation.

Bill McCoshen:

I think the COVID question actually on points, Donald Trump won and let me tell you why. Joe Biden was all about gloom, doom and death last night. He was the grim reaper. People want hope. They want some encouragement that there’s a way to get through this and I thought Donald Trump offered a balanced plan that we have to work our way through this. We have keep our schools open. We have to keep our businesses open. We have to find a way to do all these things safely. So I thought while Scot thinks that might have been Biden’s strongest point, I think it was one of his weaker points of the night and it was a good opportunity for the president to show optimism about we’re going to get through this and we’re going to find a way to do it together.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m going to move along to the final days of this campaign. As you both know, Donald Trump is coming to Wisconsin again tomorrow, to Waukesha for a rally. He’s also planned one now for Tuesday near La Crosse. What are your comments on that, Bill?

Bill McCoshen:

So one last thing about the debate. I think at the end Biden wore out. I mean he looked gassed at the end of the debate. This is the hardest job on the planet and he barely had the stamina to get through 90 minutes with Donald Trump. I think voters saw that. Now as it relates to Trump, he’s coming to Waukesha tomorrow which is very smart. He has to do well in the suburban wing of Milwaukee. He’s going to La Crosse on Tuesday. Frankly, that’s not where I would put him if I was running the campaign. I would have him in Green Bay but it might help Derrick Van Orden in the one competitive congressional seat we have here which is the 3rd. Derrick Van Orden against Ron Kind. So don’t be surprised.

Frederica Freyberg:

I got to get Scot in. What do you think about these big rallies all over the place?

Scot Ross:

I mean this is just — if you look at the spending between August and Election Day, the advertising spent by the Biden campaign in Wisconsin is $32 million. Trump is under $6 million. He has abandoned — his campaign has abandoned Wisconsin and they’re just sending him here because it makes him feel good because he’s the baby-in-chief. But I do like the fact that Bill mentioned the 3rd Congressional District because you know, we’re hear about the WOW counties, right? The Waukesha, Ozaukee, Washington. We’re hearing about the BOW counties: Brown, Outagamie and Winnebago. I think we need to focus this election a little bit more on what I call the French Quarter, which is Eau Claire and La Crosse. If you go — if Democrats go there and they do well, they win statewide elections. It’s as simple as that. In 2016 and 2018, the Democrats got — the Republicans got 41%. When Democrats run up the score there, they win big.

Frederica Freyberg:

We have to leave it there. We won’t speak with you before the election again. We’ll talk after. Thank you so much, you guys. Really appreciate it.

Bill McCoshen:

Good to be with you.

Scot Ross:

Thank you. Everybody go out and vote.

Frederica Freyberg:

We move now from campaigns and candidates to the voters. Specifically, the Latino vote. Here’s Patricia Gomez of Milwaukee PBS.

Patricia Gomez:

On the report of the Pew Research Center, after Whites, Latinos will be the largest group of voters in the November presidential election. For some, they are the sleeping giant that is just beginning to wake up. According to the Pew Research Center, a record of 32 million Latinos are eligible to vote in the 2020 presidential election. 183,000 Latinos are eligible to vote in Wisconsin.

Lauro Rodriguez:

Are you going to swing and try to jump on the other one?

Patricia Gomez:

Lauro Rodriguez is a retired combat marine who has served two tours in Iraq and wants President Trump to be reelected.

Lauro Rodriguez:

I believe the Latino vote was always there. It was always strong. It was always big. But now the Latinos are looking at the other side. They’re looking at the Republican Party and they’re seeing a straight contrast between the Democrats and the Republicans. The Republican Party seems to be more aligned with the Latino voter. They’re conservatives. They’re family-orientated and they’re church-goers, they’re religious.

Patricia Gomez:

Neumann-Ortiz leads one of the most recognized, immigrant workers advocate organizations in the country. Voces de La Frontera Action supporting the Biden-Harris ticket.

Christine Neumann-Ortiz:

It’s inspiring because this year Latinos nationwide are the second largest voting group after White voters. And in Wisconsin, that power in numbers is also true because we saw how that was — the impact that that had in the 2018 elections with the election of a pro-immigrant governor, Governor Evers. And leading into this November 2020 election, the numbers of Latinos is more than the margin of victory in any presidential or state election.

Patricia Gomez:

Regarding why they support their candidates, Rodriguez and Neumann-Ortiz envision different scenarios.

Christine Neumann-Ortiz:

The policies that have been passed are unconscionable: the separation of families, the jailing of children. It’s just the repeal of DACA/DAPA that was won under the Obama administration. It’s just relentless. And we have the power to defeat the Trump administration. This is a far-right, white nationalist administration, the people that are in it, their ideology. We have the power to defeat them. It’s an absolutely critical election that we win and that Latinos are the ones to deliver that electoral victory to a Biden and Harris who are running on a pro-immigrant, pro-worker platform.

Lauro Rodriguez:

With Donald Trump’s tax cuts, the corporations were able to provide not only more jobs, but with supply and demand, where there’s no people to go ahead and fill those jobs, they started raising. My increase in pay went from a little under $43,000 to $70,000 right now. So that is a big increase on my annual salary. So I believe that was because of Trump.

Frederica Freyberg:

That was Patricia Gomez of Milwaukee PBS reporting.

Even with Joe Biden holding an edge in the polls over Donald Trump in Wisconsin, Democrats are taking nothing for granted. That’s true in the race for president as well as races down-ballot. But how could a blue wave, if it comes, impact the races for State Assembly and Senate? “Here & Now” Senior Political Reporter Zac Schultz has this story.

Zac Schultz:

Going into the fall, Wisconsin Democrats were pretty blunt about their prospects of taking back the State Senate and Assembly.

Ben Wikler:

We recognize that there’s a lot of districts where it’s just very, very tough for Democrats to win.

Zac Schultz:

Ben Wikler is chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. They even started a campaign called “Save the Veto” with a strategy centered on not losing seats.

Gordon Hintz:

I think if both sides turn out, you would expect a pretty tight race again in Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:

Democrat Gordon Hintz is the Assembly minority leader. A tight presidential race would likely mean status quo elections in the legislature with Republicans maintaining large majorities. But Democrats are also preparing for the opposite, asking if Donald Trump looks to be losing by a large margin, will Republicans bother voting at all?

Gordon Hintz:

If they’re not going to turn out to vote for President Trump, you know, are they going to turn out to vote for their State Senator or State Assembly Republican representative?

Zac Schultz:

2020 could be the perfect storm for a Biden wave to carry down-ballot Democrats into office. Because once every 12 years, we have a presidential election with no U.S. Senate race.

Barack Obama:

While the Democratic Party has won a great victory tonight, we do so with a measure of humility.

Zac Schultz:

The last time was 2008, when Barack Obama won big and Democrats flipped five Assembly seats on their way to the majority. To see the value of a U.S. Senate race you need only go back to 2016, when saving Republican Senator Ron Johnson’s seat was a rallying cry for Never Trump Republicans in southeast Wisconsin.

Ron Johnson:

I want to run a great campaign to help whoever that presidential candidate was also win the state.

Zac Schultz:

Johnson received more votes than Donald Trump, a rarity in presidential elections. Hintz says in 2020, they have the candidates in place if the bottom drops out for Republicans.

Gordon Hintz:

We want to build campaigns that may be on the margins that could to make sure that they are able to put their sail up should there be that kind of wave.

Zac Schultz:

But Democrats have seen big statewide wins before that don’t result in down-ballot wins. In 2018, Assembly Democratic candidates received 1.3 million votes compared to 1.1 million for Republican candidates. But they only added one seat. They blame gerrymandered maps that were drawn in 2011 to virtually guarantee a Republican majority for the next decade.

Ben Wikler:

Robin Vos knows that the maps are exactly why he is the speaker of the State Assembly at this very moment.

Robin Vos:

Whenever somebody is not able to win on their ideas, they look for fingers to point at somebody else because this is the reason they can’t win.

Zac Schultz:

Assembly Speaker Robin Vos has defended these maps all the way to the United States Supreme Court and back. He maintains there’s a simple reason Republicans hold a dominant 63-36 majority in the legislature.

Robin Vos:

People have kind of naturally self-segregated.

Zac Schultz:

Nearly half of all Democratic Assembly votes come from Milwaukee and Madison districts, where unopposed candidates run up the score.

Robin Vos:

Democrats have a problem that they like to live in big cities.

Zac Schultz:

So how many Democrats are there outside Madison and Milwaukee? In 2018, 37 seats went unopposed. When you add up the votes in the remaining 61 seats, Republican candidates received 945,000 votes, or 58%, while Democrats received 677,000 votes, or 42%. If Republicans had won 58% of the seats, they would have won 35 seats. The Democrats’ 42% of the vote would have netted them 26 seats. But in reality of those 61 challenged seats, Republicans won 56 and Democrats took only five.

Ben Wikler:

The numbers don’t lie. Republicans built these districts to elect Republicans even if the public rejects Republicans.

Robin Vos:

We hold districts that have a Democratic lean to them because we have members who work really hard.

Zac Schultz:

Robin Vos says a different race from 2018 actually proves his point.

Tammy Baldwin:

Democrats, Republicans and independents sent a loud and clear message.

Zac Schultz:

In the U.S. Senate race, Democrat Tammy Baldwin received the most votes in 55 Assembly districts. All 36 Democratic seats plus 19 districts shown in light blue, where a Republican won the Assembly race.

Robin Vos:

People are obviously willing to split the ticket. It’s just the agenda offered by liberal Democrats who primarily seem like they represent only Madison again, just doesn’t resonate with the rest of the state.

Zac Schultz:

Hintz sees it a different way.

Gordon Hintz:

We look at it as well, voters were willing to vote for a Democrat so that’s not an obstacle.

Zac Schultz:

Hintz says the plan all along has been to survive until redistricting gives them new maps two years from now. And they’re certainly not banking on a big win but they’ll be ready just the same.

Gordon Hintz:

No, there’s not any plan like we got this, it’s a Biden wave, but we certainly want to put people in a position should that occur.

Zac Schultz:

Reporting from Madison, I’m Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin’s COVID-19 cases clicked well above 4,000 again today, with 42 deaths also reported. Governor Tony Evers continues to call attention to people ignoring public health practices.

Tony Evers:

To those who say this pandemic has been blown out of proportion or that there isn’t a real risk, folks, they’re just flat out wrong.

Frederica Freyberg:

Surfing the internet and chatting on social media are common pastimes, especially now. But at the height of both the coronavirus pandemic and polarized politics, what information gets spread is often false. Tonight we hear from the author of an important article from our partners at WisContext and the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism. The headline? Misinformation and the paranoid style in Wisconsin’s pandemic politics. WisContext Reporter Will Cushman is here with details. That’s quite a headline, Will but it says it all because your investigation shows that false information about COVID-19 circulates with a kind of warp speed on the internet, especially on social media like Facebook. So could that be what helps explain Wisconsin’s surge right now?

Will Cushman:

That’s a really good question, and I think there’s a number of factors that are behind Wisconsin’s surge right now. And certainly one of the biggest ones is the fact that there is still a sizable portion of the population that isn’t adhering to public health recommendations to socially distance or to wear masks. And what we’re seeing in some of these Facebook groups that we looked at, really large Facebook groups that have large followings in Wisconsin. One of them has over 120,000 members. There’s a lot of really pretty politically motivated misinformation down playing the virus and the disease. Any misinformation that’s down playing the virus is potentially going to help convince some people that they might not have to socially distance or wear masks or do the other things that slow the spread of the disease.

Frederica Freyberg:

Your article does say that and this is a quote, “President Trump is the most prominent purveyor of inaccurate information about the disease” but just this week in the midst of Wisconsin’s record-setting spikes in cases and deaths, Senator Ron Johnson also said that we were flattening the curve. So what role does polarized politics play in all of this?

Will Cushman:

It’s difficult to understate the role of really toxic politics and the spread of misinformation about COVID. It’s no secret that the pandemic figures prominently in a really pretty divisive election year and campaign season. And I think we’re finding that that mixture of kind of the anxiety and the fear surrounding the pandemic, along with the anxiety of an uncertain political environment is really having pretty negative effects in terms of a lot of people’s willingness to listen to and spread false and misleading information about the virus.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, you just spoke about how there are Facebook groups with a lot of members that originated in Wisconsin. Is there reason to believe that this misinformation about COVID is more rampant in Wisconsin than elsewhere? I’m really trying to just wrap my head around what’s happening in Wisconsin, you know?

Will Cushman:

Sure. Yeah. And that’s a really good question. And I guess I would say I’m not aware of any evidence that would indicate that the misinformation environment in Wisconsin is any worse than it is anywhere else. It’s a problem really everywhere. In my reporting, I even looked at misinformation spreading on social media in China. So this is a global problem. It’s happening in India and Europe as well. All over the world. So I really don’t think that Wisconsin is unique in this misinformation environment surrounding the pandemic. But especially as cases surge right now, the misinformation is quite problematic here locally.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s get a sense of what we’re talking about. What are some of the most kind of outlandish pieces of fake information that health officials or doctors you’ve interviewed have heard about?

Will Cushman:

A lot of the more outlandish misinformation surrounds the use of face masks. There are conspiracy theories linking face masks to Satanism. That’s clearly not accurate. There are a whole lot of equally pretty egregious conspiracy theories about the pandemic. But then also conspiracy theories or misinformation that really leverages confusion or even discrepancies that people might find in the copious amounts of data that is pouring in every day, data about the disease, caseloads, deaths and hospitalizations. Sometimes that data can be really confusing and difficult to straighten out, especially as it’s being pumped out at really unprecedented levels and so quickly. That can be a breeding ground for misinformation as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

So really with just about a half a minute left, how difficult has it proved for public health officials to counter this misinformation?

Will Cushman:

That’s a really good question as well and one that a number of reporters were posing just yesterday during a media briefing with state health officials and state health officials acknowledged that it has been difficult. Certainly some changes to advice, especially surrounding the use of face masks, maybe has made it difficult to convince people of face mask efficacy in particular. But we’re also seeing local health officials in Wisconsin quitting their jobs because of the misinformation that’s spreading and political pressure to not follow science and their guidelines.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wow. Well, Will Cushman, thank you very much for your reporting.

Will Cushman:

Thank you so much, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Election and coronavirus coverage continues at PBSwisconsin.org. Click on the news tab.

For more information on voting, candidates and issues, go to WisconsinVote.org.

Next week Marisa Wojcik visits the Menominee Nation and reports on the impact the pandemic may take on the Wisconsin Native vote.

And more on the 2020 election heading into the final hours of the campaign. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:

More for “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage, go to PBSwisconsin.org and click on news.

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.