Here & Now

Here & Now for November 27, 2020

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

The ballot recount resumes after a Thanksgiving Day break. Even in the face of a last-minute Trump-supported legal challenge before the state Supreme Court. COVID casting a grim shadow over the holidays. Tough pandemic times make it even harder for those in need to feed their families. And the virus has amplified depression and other mental illness, darkening the holidays for many and contributing to the tipping point for health care providers.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a Marquette Law School professor points to racial injustices inherent in the Wisconsin recount. We talk with a mental health provider and a hunger relief worker about the toll COVID is taking on Wisconsinites. And the perspective of the Wisconsin vote from author and UW Political Science professor Katherine Cramer. It’s “Here & Now” for November 27.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Wisconsin recount in Dane and Milwaukee Counties continued through the week, even as an 11th hour lawsuit asked the state Supreme Court to throw out the state’s election results, block certification here and have the state Legislature pick Wisconsin’s presidential electors. The Trump campaign paid for the recount in only two counties, overwhelmingly democratic, population centers with the highest percentage of voters of color. Our next guest is a law professor at Marquette University. His expertise: voting rights law and exclusion of voters on the margins. Atiba Ellis joins us now. Professor, thanks for being here.

Atiba Ellis:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Your work focuses on disenfranchisement of voters on the margins. What do you make of the Trump campaign selecting Wisconsin’s two largest counties with the highest populations of people of color for recount?

Atiba Ellis:

Well, I think it echoes sort of the worst days of racial discrimination that we saw a century ago. During the Jim Crow era, we often see cases where the structures of elections were shifted in order to disenfranchise African-Americans and that structures were manipulated to either disenfranchise entirely or marginalize the voting voice of people of color. This has disturbing echoes of that pattern by targeting the counties where the largest populations of people of color are in this state. With the hoax of overturning an election, you’re effectively nullifying those votes. At least that’s how it can be seen. I realize that intention is often an issue when it comes to these sorts of concerns, but all too often the way the law asks these questions is what’s the effect? And it would look like the effect of excluding voters in Dane and Milwaukee County might be to target people of color specifically.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, the kinds of ballots the Trump campaign sought to throw out included those describing themselves as “indefinitely confined,” whereby a voter ID was not required. What’s the campaign’s message here, in your mind?

Atiba Ellis:

Well, I think that the campaign is trying to in essence argue after the fact that the rules ought to be changed. I mean, part of the background here is that the Republican Legislature and the Wisconsin Elections Commission basically agreed to this form of interpretation and was certainly the form of interpretation in 2016 and they’ve proceeded in the same way in 2020. So it seems disingenuous to say the least to suddenly change the rules because the result that you liked in 2016 isn’t the result that you like in 2020.

Frederica Freyberg:

How has the voter ID law itself impacted voting in marginalized communities?

Atiba Ellis:

Well, I think it puts them at risk. Often the litigation around voter ID is about whether communities of color, African-American, Latinx communities have ID in the same proportion as the majority community. And so that runs the risk of disenfranchising. And certainly there was even a 2016 study in Milwaukee that pointed to the fact that people perceived the voter ID law as having a disenfranchising effect. And that affected their behavior. It’s hard to find the hard numbers, but with that message out there, it risks disenfranchisement.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to the recount, Wisconsin election officials say there were few if any irregularities. What in your mind is the end game for the Trump campaign now that the transition to President-elect Biden is in progress?

Atiba Ellis:

The transition is in progress. The other states that were closely contested have been certifying their election results. I mean it’s hard to see a win here, first of all, given the narrowness and arguable doubt that these legal theories have. I mean, looking at the record, the Trump legal team has basically lost almost all of its litigation based on similar theories. It may well be about sending a message about democracy. And I fear that this message comes with sowing distrust in the work that the Elections Commission has done and that all the hard working elections administrators do in Wisconsin. And that mistrust can have consequences going forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah. Absolutely. Because I was going to ask, what kind of taste does all of this leave in the mouths of voters in the aftermath of all of this alleged widespread fraud as we look toward the future?

Atiba Ellis:

Well, I think that there is going to be a memory of doubt being sown. I think that this talk about voter fraud, which used to be fringe and used to be left up to the courts to dismiss, is now in the public’s mind. And I think that that is going to make people doubt and certainly even surveys are showing that doubt about this result is based on who do you believe. But the objective facts are that this election has been secure and it has been effective despite the challenges posed by the laws and by the pandemic.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. We really appreciate your expertise, Professor Ellis. Thank you.

Atiba Ellis:

Thank you very much.

Frederica Freyberg:

This week saw Wisconsin reach another grim milestone in the COVID-19 pandemic. Tuesday marked the first time the state reported more than 100 COVID-19 deaths on a single day. As the pandemic continues to put pressure on health care systems, reporter Trevor Keller spoke with frontline workers about how they’re holding up.

Trevor Keller:

Last week, video of a Marshfield Clinic nurse talking about her struggles went viral.

Theresa Weiler:

At the end of the day I would go home and go straight to the shower. Part of this was to protect myself and my family. But the other part was so I could go cry in the shower and finally release for the day. I’m now in a more numb state, but I wonder how long we can maintain at this pace before we crumble. And who will want to be in health care after this is all done? And what kind of PTSD will we all suffer? I worry about us as a whole.

Trevor Keller:

It’s a scene playing out in hospitals across Wisconsin. Case numbers and hospitalizations rising. Health care workers pushed to the limit. I spoke with three doctors from different parts of the state about what they’re seeing and feeling nine months into a pandemic.

Paul Casey:

We’re tired and frustrated because I personally have been preaching for nine months for people to wear masks. I go around and I see people not following the guidelines and then I see on the news these big events where people get together for whatever purpose and don’t wear a mask. And then when I go to work, I see the direct result of that.

Trevor Keller:

All three doctors say that many days their COVID units are full. At UW Hospital, there’s worry that they’re teetering toward a tipping point.

Hillary Faust:

For a long time, that felt like something that was really far away and that it wouldn’t come to that here. But it doesn’t feel like that anymore. We are really reaching our capacity limits soon. And we don’t want to have to cut corners or make tough decisions about who needs to be treated or not.

Trevor Keller:

But it’s not just about hospital beds.

Paul Horvath:

I think what’s really making it hard, though, is the number of staff that we have that are out either ill or exposed or on quarantine. So all of us are not only working harder, but we’re working more, more days than we’re typically used to. So that’s a challenge. That’s a real challenge.

Trevor Keller:

All three doctors worry holiday gatherings will only make things worse.

Paul Casey:

And so if you get ten people in a room, there’s a 20% to 30% chance somebody will have it, transmit it to others. So it’s kind of like playing Russian roulette with your vulnerable family members.

Trevor Keller:

2020 has been a hard year for health care workers.

Hillary Faust:

I think that everybody has those moments where you kind of catch your breath and just kind of feel the emotional impact of it.

Trevor Keller:

On Sunday, UW Health took out a two-page ad in the Wisconsin State Journal urging people to take COVID precautions more seriously. It’s a message frontline workers around the state hope Wisconsinites hear and heed to avoid a holiday hospital visit.

Paul Horvath:

Wear masks, wash your hands, stay away from people. It’s just that simple.

Trevor Keller:

Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Trevor Keller.

Frederica Freyberg:

Frontline workers confronting danger and death every day. But even people not putting their lives on the line when they report to work are experiencing increased struggles with mental health because maybe they’re out of work or the fear of a pressing pandemic and its isolation closes in. We check in on mental health concerns during the pandemic now with Dr. Ned Kalin. He’s the chair of the Department of Psychiatry at the UW School of Medicine. Thanks very much for joining us.

Ned Kalin:

Thank you for inviting me, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So there are myriad reports about the negative effects of the pandemic on mental health, including numbers from the CDC that something like 40% of Americans are struggling with it or drug abuse and 75% of young people are also struggling. What are you seeing?

Ned Kalin:

So we’re seeing the same thing here in Madison, in Wisconsin, and in our community, an increased need for mental health services, a tremendous amount of stress in the community and all of the things you’ve enumerated are critical from the standpoint of thinking about the chronic and severe stress people are facing. So it’s an ongoing stressor. It’s coming in different waves. There’s so much uncertainty and loss and worry that it’s sort of expected that you would be seeing this. We’re actually thinking about this as the next epidemic from the standpoint — in relation to COVID, the aftermath.

Frederica Freyberg:

If there is so much need and demand for services, what is that like in the midst of frontline workers in hospitals and clinics doing the work of treating COVID patients?

Ned Kalin:

So it’s really important to keep in mind that the frontline workers are especially stressed and obviously they’re very critical for all of us from the standpoint of our making it through this in as healthy a way as possible. We, at the university, are working hard to support our colleagues on the front lines and are actually offering support groups and helping them build resilience and a variety of other measures that we can do to help support and help people working and feeling okay.

Frederica Freyberg:

So economic conditions are out of the control of individuals and the loss of jobs or not having enough money for basic needs obviously would bring on anxiety. How does that then dovetail with the fear of this lurking coronavirus or worse the loss of loved ones? I mean it’s just unrelenting it would seem.

Ned Kalin:

You’ve got it exactly right. It’s unrelenting and there are multiple stressors coming together, any one of which would be a huge stressor. The idea that all these are occurring at the same time that they’re ongoing, that we don’t know when they’re going to stop and that we’re even worrying for our well-being and our lives and our lives of our family is overwhelming. And that’s really the problem from the standpoint of the increased stress, increased depression and anxiety and substance use that we’re seeing.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you ever seen anything like this?

Ned Kalin:

Never seen anything like this and it’s remarkable. The other side of it is that many people, as you know, are very resilient as well and they’ve figured out ways to adapt and get through it. And so what we want to do is help people draw on their own strengths in a way that can make them as resilient and adaptive as possible during this really, really difficult time.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why is it particularly hard at least according to the numbers I’ve looked at for young people, even children?

Ned Kalin:

So everybody’s affected, but young people I think have less of a perspective and less of an understanding of what’s happening at times. They really require significant structure. Not being in school or not being in school the same way, not having the same playmates, having to wear a mask, all of a sudden being in a world where you’ve got to be scared of catching something that you can’t even see and dying from that, it’s extremely heavy-duty and I think the younger the person is, the harder it is to comprehend that. Children need support. It’s just really, really difficult.

Frederica Freyberg:

With less than a minute left, doctor, how can we all help?

Ned Kalin:

So I think the first thing is to be open to the idea that this is a really tough time and it’s okay to struggle and it’s okay to have some anxiety and a little depression. That that’s normal. The second thing is to go out of our way to reach out and support each other. Even though we’re physically distancing doesn’t mean we can’t be reaching out, making that extra phone call that you think you want to do but you decided yesterday you weren’t going to do. And really thinking about activities that can be helpful from the standpoint of things like exercise, walking, distracting yourself from the news, things like that. They’re all sort of basic things, but if you do them every day, they can add up and help build your resilience and help get you through this.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you so much for your information, Dr. Ned Kalin.

Ned Kalin:

You’re welcome. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

As everyone has said, the Thanksgiving holiday was very different this year, or at least public health officials hope extended families and friends didn’t crowd in together. But for a growing number of people laid off from work, the idea of a feast-like spread was out of the question. Food insecurity across the nation and here at home means increasing numbers of people are newly accepting help by way of food pantries or donations. Our next guest oversees the largest hunger relief organization in the state, serving more than 4,000 people through 600 food pantries. Patti Habeck is president of Feeding America of Eastern Wisconsin. Thanks for being here.

Patti Habeck:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is the situation right now with people experiencing food insecurity in Wisconsin?

Patti Habeck:

We’ve never seen anything like this. The need is great and it still is growing to some extent. And hunger relief right now is a tough place to work. We have 40% of the people that are visiting food pantries right now have never been in the hunger relief system before, adding an additional layer of stress and unknowns for families.

Frederica Freyberg:

So who are the people that are kind of newly reaching out?

Patti Habeck:

So a lot of individuals who either lost their employment or for health reasons are homebound and unable to work. It’s families who have been in the system who are experiencing extended or more challenges in their families. It might be families who have college kids who have returned home or families who typically have young children who rely on the school system for food and now have more pressure on their household system for food.

Frederica Freyberg:

It’s hard for anyone obviously newly reaching out or those who have been doing that all along and have new needs. But is it rural and urban and everywhere in between?

Patti Habeck:

Absolutely. The territory that we cover has urban areas in southeast Wisconsin as well as the rural areas and even small metro areas. And what I’m seeing when I go out in community is hunger looks slightly different if you’re in an urban area versus rural, but the issues are all the same. Families are facing really challenging times no matter where you are. Resources are slim. And so our work is necessary. And the work of the network of food pantries is more necessary now than we’ve ever seen.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know a total of something like $75 million has come through the state and the Department of Agriculture to help. Is this enough to meet demand?

Patti Habeck:

It has been an incredible assistance. I don’t know what we would have done if the state and federal government hadn’t come up with some dollars to help and assist in the hunger relief. But you have to keep in mind that it’s still only a portion of what we actually need. We still rely on manufacturers and growers and grocers and retailers to fill the gap. Food is a consumable commodity. So families receive food. They eat food. They need food the next day. So we’re constantly working to provide that nutritious food, particularly during the pandemic. Nutrition matters. It matters all the time, but particularly right now. We’re really working to get that high nutrition-dense food out into the families.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what kind of food can be produced from producers to stock the shelves of a pantry or donation site?

Patti Habeck:

Right now we are really pushing for fresh produce, which has its own distribution challenges but we know that that’s one of the biggest products, best products that we can get out there. Proteins, so things like meats and peanut butter and nuts and grains. Also dairy products. We’ve been really pushing in those three categories. Those are our biggest distribution categories. But then we also have to work on shelf-stable items because some households don’t have access to be able to prepare food and so shelf-stable, easy-to-heat-up soups and things like that have been really needed right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just briefly, with about a half minute left, what more needs to be done to help fill this demand?

Patti Habeck:

The first thing we always say it is really necessary to help bring these COVID numbers down. Really starting in your own household, what can you do to help prevent exposures, to prevent the spread of the virus? If we can get these numbers down, we’re able to then keep the system healthy and reach out. Beyond that, we always say food, funds and friends. If you can donate time to volunteer and funds to support our purchasing programs right now, that would be really necessary.

Frederica Freyberg:

Patti Habeck, thank you very much and thanks for your work.

Patti Habeck:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now to politics and reflections on the 2020 Wisconsin vote by a UW-Madison political scientist and author. Katherine Cramer’s 2016 book “The Politics of Resentment” explored how rural Wisconsinites perceived their place in society. It’s an exploration that revealed a resentment of so-called “liberal elites,” that partly defined the successful wedge politics of former governor Scott Walker. The book’s release not only coincided with the election of Donald Trump. It largely predicted the class-based identity politics that led to his presidency. We check in with Professor Katherine Cramer for her take on the current Wisconsin political landscape and thank you so much for being here.

Katherine Cramer:

It’s my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So today post-2020 election you say “the shock of the closeness of the election suggests we are still unaware of the depth of this resentment.” Who was shocked by the closeness?

Katherine Cramer:

I think commentators like ourselves, right, people who are close political observers who pay close attention, try to understand what’s going on in the electorate and nevertheless the outcome of the 2020 election was a bit of a surprise. So there are undercurrents that we still don’t understand.

Frederica Freyberg:

Who then is resentful right now and why?

Katherine Cramer:

Well, honestly, I think it’s a broad swath of people. So in my 2016 book, as you mentioned, I focused on the rural versus urban divide in Wisconsin. But it’s not just people in rural Wisconsin who are feeling resentful. I think the things we’ve experienced in this state over the summer acutely with respect to race relations underscores that there are people in our urban settings who are feeling quite resentful, too. There are many people feeling as though their government, the people in charge, the people making decisions don’t understand the challenges that they’re facing. And my goodness, after this pandemic I think that’s more acute than ever.

Frederica Freyberg:

Who are the cultural elite?

Katherine Cramer:

The way I think about it is they’re the people who put the ideas out there for other people to consume. So people like myself, who create knowledge and communicate it, people in the news media who report on what’s going on in the world and communicate to other people. But also I think people who create popular culture content, whether it be movies or television, the books we read. But also our decision-makers, people in government, people in business, just the people in charge who are making ideas and communicating them to the broader public.

Frederica Freyberg:

So why do people get left out of the elite?

Katherine Cramer:

That’s a great question. I think a lot of it has to do with economic inequality. I think just as time goes on, since roughly the early ’70s, there’s just this increasing gap between people who have resources and those who don’t. And the cultural elite, we tend to be people with resources. And the way we live our lives, how we spend our time, where we live is often very separate physically, in terms of the information we consume. It’s separate from people who don’t have resources. So we’re often not seeing their lives.

Frederica Freyberg:

You hearken back to the 1970s, but hasn’t it always been this way, this kind of split?

Katherine Cramer:

I don’t think so. If we think about the rural versus urban divide in particular, you might say, yes, ever since there were things called cities, there were people in the cities and people outside. But there’s something different that has changed here in Wisconsin and around the country, and just even in the past two decades we can see in Wisconsin with respect to politics, there’s just an increasingly crisper divide between the way our rural counties are voting and the way our urban counties are voting and that was certainly true in 2020. Even the contrast between 2016 and 2020 shows there’s a divide in what people want, whether we’re talking about politics or perhaps more generally than that. So I don’t think it’s always been this divided.

Frederica Freyberg:

Isn’t there more kind of vitriol now, even violence with this divide?

Katherine Cramer:

I think that’s true. And so violence, but it’s small things like our ability to talk with one another, right? So in a recent Marquette poll, roughly a third of the Wisconsin population reports not talking to people, people close to them in their lives, about politics, because it’s difficult to do these days. And so I think there is more vitriol. There’s more resentment. There’s more vitriol and unfortunately more violence, too, yeah.

Frederica Freyberg:

We talk about all these issues and we talk about resentment, but there’s good cause for that resentment. It’s not as though people like us that you suggest that we are in the cultural elite should say, oh, get over it. Of course you can do this if you want.

Katherine Cramer:

Right. No. That’s true. We have to pay attention to it, not just because of violence and vitriol, but because there is — there’s a reason that people are feeling resentful. And we need to understand why it is that people are feeling that the challenges they’re facing are just insurmountable, that they’re feeling that they need to turn to vitriol and violence. Those are important signals for us to listen to.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Katherine Cramer, thanks very much and thanks for your work.

Katherine Cramer:

Oh, thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:

As the post-election dust settles, look for political coverage at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab.

Also for ongoing, in-depth coverage on COVID-19, visit our partner news site at WisContext.org.

That is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a safe holiday weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.