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The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

Election day may be in the rear view, but clerks are still hard at work to certify the official results. The arrival of wintery weather means retreating indoors and an opportunity for viruses to thrive. LGBTQ issues are under new scrutiny on school boards and are moves to curb inflation cooling the economy?

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” what will happen to the Wisconsin Elections Commission? Its chair joins us. We hear from a Green Bay doctor about respiratory viruses filling up hospitals. The venomous rhetoric that led to a Rice Lake school board resignation and what’s exactly is going on with the economy? It’s “Here & Now” for November 18.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

While the unofficial votes were tallied last week, counties have until next Tuesday to deliver their official canvas. Then the chair of the Wisconsin Elections Commission has until December 1st to certify the election results. The future of the commission itself was a political hot potato throughout the mid-terms. For an update we turn to the chair of the Wisconsin Elections Commission Don Millis. Thanks for being here.

Don Millis:

My pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

You told us in July when we last spoke with you that your job is to “look forward and try to enhance the public’s confidence in elections.” So just off the November 8 election, did you succeed?

Don Millis:

Well, I think we did in many respects. The election went off, I think, better than many expected. I know there were press accounts of concern about controversies and conflicts at polling places. There was one very unfortunate incident in West Bend where someone, perhaps a troubled individual, had a knife. That’s — I don’t know much about that other than what I’ve read in the papers. There were some press reports but I think for the most part, it went very well. I talked to staff the evening of the election, the next day and they thought it went very well. We haven’t had — I have not seen any accounts of grand conspiracies about election being stolen in Wisconsin. And so thus far so good.

Frederica Freyberg:

So breathing a sigh of relief?

Don Millis:

A little bit. I think that both parties, leadership of both parties tried very hard to make sure the election went really smoothly. Both parties invested a lot of money in training partisan poll workers and partisan election observers. I think the staff at the commission did a good job assisting clerks and I think the first line of defense in Wisconsin are the local clerks and I think they did a very good job.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to that, how did the commission do in providing guidance to those election clerks, which you call the commission’s primary responsibility?

Don Millis:

I think they did a pretty good job. I think they — we talked about how to deal with problem situations. We educate them on the law. We certainly have constraints on what we are allowed to do. The courts have ruled at various times what we can and cannot say, which is fair. That’s the court’s role. But I think within those constraints, I think the commission staff did a very good job of educating clerks and providing them with the tools to make sure the elections ran smoothly and transparently.

Frederica Freyberg:

In your mind what’s out there that still needs addressing?

Don Millis:

I think we still need to have greater confidence in election results because I think it’s still a nagging issue. One of the things that the commission has suggested on a bipartisan 6-0 vote was to propose an office of inspector general within the agency with resources and positions that would help investigate — not so much formal complaints but concerns about the legitimacy of certain practices and also to address public inquiries and the legislature’s inquiries.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now that Tony Evers has won re-election and it would appear the Democrat incumbent also has won the secretary of state’s seat again, do you feel like the threat of dissolving the Elections Commission is past?

Don Millis:

Well I mean that’s really an issue for the legislature and the governor I guess but if anyone who has any awareness of what’s going on, you probably expect that any radical change to the commission is not likely to pass or at least pass and be signed in by the governor. So I think the goal for us in the next two years is come up with smaller changes, changes that everyone can agree upon.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you spoken with Speaker Vos who appointed you about whether or not he will pursue any kind of more significant changes to election law?

Don Millis:

I have not. I know we’ve had discussions among the commissioners and on staff about smaller — small-scale changes that might find the favor with Republicans and Democrats but I have not had a conversation with the speaker.

Frederica Freyberg:

Can you describe what some of those smaller changes might be?

Don Millis:

Certainly we would like to maybe address the issues with illegal requests for absentee ballots. The recent request for military ballots, there are some things that could be done that I think would be — find favor with everyone. There are — Wisconsin is the only — of the 49 states that require registration or have registration, we’re the only state that doesn’t have military voters registered. We think that’s something we could change that would help solve the problem. We also have the opportunity, I think, to allow electronic voting by military officers by engaging with the Department of Defense and using some of their systems. And so that’s not been tried anywhere else. We’d like to maybe explore that. That would be a wat of making sure our military men and women overseas can vote and can make sure their votes are counted because obviously sending back a paper ballot overseas has time issues and there are only so — we have so much lag time that the federal government allows us to use to count those ballots.

Frederica Freyberg:

So that getting of the military ballots by the person who did it, the former deputy election commissioner in Milwaukee, in your mind that exposed a vulnerability.

Don Millis:

I don’t know if it exposed a vulnerability. In talking to the staff there is a lag time by which those changes, those requests have been logged into the system. The staff are confident within about 2 or 3 days after it became apparent, if it hadn’t become public, the commission staff would have probably picked up on it. It is the number of military ballots are relatively small so it’s something they can get their arms around. So I think that we probably would have caught it but I think in this case it would be better to instill greater public confidence and come up with a better system for handling military ballots.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Don Millis, thank you very much.

Don Millis:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Turning to health news, the rise in a respiratory virus called RSV along with flu and COVID in Wisconsin have health systems forewarning of capacity issues as hospitals, emergency rooms and clinics become overloaded. RSV afflicts children the hardest. Overall respiratory illnesses have caused hospitals to increase the number of pediatric beds and intensive care units. Statewide pediatric beds are 75% full and pediatric intensive care units are 80% full. Infectious disease specialist Dr. Michael Landrum with Bellin Health joins us from Green Bay. Thank you very much for being here.

Michael Landrum:

Happy to be with you.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is the situation where you are with all this?

Michael Landrum:

We’re about at the state average where we’re seeing an increase in the number of cases are RSV in children as well as respiratory illnesses in adults but we haven’t reached a, I would say, critical level in our capacity right now. We’ve been exploring options for what to do if numbers increase but we’ve been able to manage right now with the cases that we’ve seen.

Frederica Freyberg:

That’s good news in that area. According to the state Department of Health Services, this is the first year that three severe respiratory viruses are circulating at the same time with significant increases in cases. Have you ever seen anything like this kind of triad of viruses?

Michael Landrum:

No, I can’t remember a time in my career when I’ve seen anything like this. It just kind of goes along with the last three years with things that I’ve never seen before are now happening.

Frederica Freyberg:

So I understand RSV is rather common but that it is acting differently this year. Like it started earlier in the season, it may be causing more severe infection or infecting a more vulnerable infant population. Is that right?

Michael Landrum:

That’s all correct. We are definitely seeing more cases than we typically see this time of year. Usually RSV will peak in, I’d say, late December, January, maybe in February. And so while we can see cases this time of year in a typical or more normal year, we’re seeing a lot more than we typically do this time of year and that’s what’s really concerning. We don’t know will things continue to increase and we won’t reach our peak until a couple months from now, or will this peak early and then fade away early? So we are seeing a lot more disease right now than we typically do.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about in the infant population? Is that being hit particularly hard as we’ve been reading in other areas?

Michael Landrum:

RSV in general is worse for young children and infants. It’s more severe. Those children are more likely to be hospitalized with RSV so that is typical for most years that we do see the most severe cases in those young children.

Frederica Freyberg:

Should people be tested to determine which virus they are sick with?

Michael Landrum:

I would say we are testing patients that we see, both children and adults, for a number of respiratory viruses. That’s somewhat up to the clinical judgment of the provider who’s seeing the patient at the time. We do do a wide range of testing. We certainly have much more testing available now than we did even a few years ago so that is better. Most of these infections are, for RSV in particular, tend to be mild and things that can be managed at home and so you don’t need to rush in and get tested for that reason specifically. However, if your child is uncharacteristically sick, having trouble breathing, particularly young and vulnerable, then that’s when you want to call your pediatrician or your family physician and see what they recommend with coming in, getting evaluated and potentially tested.

Frederica Freyberg:

So between continuing COVID, the flu and RSV is the thought that isolation and masking over the past two years left people vulnerable?

Michael Landrum:

That is, you know, the theory that’s being circulated. RSV, influenza, respiratory viruses in general are things that are very common and people get year to year. So over the last few years as we’ve been masking and social distancing we haven’t been exposed to these things for a while. So our immune system in terms of fighting these off in the overall community and the population is a little bit lower against these things so it can lead to more transmission, more cases and perhaps more severe cases.

Frederica Freyberg:

What’s the prescription for trying to stem the outbreak, especially coming into the holidays?

Michael Landrum:

Well, absolutely. I’m glad you asked that question. Really if you are eligible to get vaccinated for influenza or to get vaccinated for COVID-19, whether that’s your initial immunization or to get a booster, please do so. The vaccines don’t prevent any infection from occurring. You can still get an infection but they definitely make it less severe. This year preliminary information from the CDC suggests the influenza vaccine is a good match for the strains we’re seeing causing a lot of cases at least right now early in the flu season. So please, please, please go and get vaccinated. That will help protect you. It protects others around you and it helps our health system from getting overloaded with all these respiratory diseases.

Frederica Freyberg:

Good advice, Dr. Michael Landrum, thank you very much.

Michael Landrum:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

And this news, the U.S. Department of Labor has issued a temporary restraining order against Packer Sanitation for oppressive child labor law violations. The Wisconsin-based company provides contract cleaning and sanitation services to meat processing plants in Minnesota and Nebraska. An investigation found that children under the age of 16 worked long hours or overnight, operated machinery on the kill floor, and received chemical burns from caustic cleaners. The investigation is ongoing.

School boards across Wisconsin became the new battleground for culture war politics in the last few years heightened in the run-up to the November election. But what kind of human damage is done with public smear campaigns against everything teaching about race to allowing students and staff to use gender-affirming pronouns to policies on transgender students? We ask our next guest who’s a current college professor and former member of the Rice Lake School Board until she resigned last month. That was after a group called the Barron County Patriots raised their voice and rhetoric in the district. Abbey Fischer joins us now and thanks very much for doing so.

Abbey Fischer:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you told us that things got ugly when the pandemic hit. How so?

Abbey Fischer:

As the pandemic began, people in town began voicing their opposition to continuing to stay at home, which we understood. We wanted the students back in the buildings. But the rhetoric got loud in town. People began emailing board members frequently and they began to attend our board meetings, which we encourage it but it was loud and it was often not founded in scientific rhetoric or scientific proof rather. It was a lot of what I would say non-scientific concepts. It was language being used on a national scale that found its way to Rice Lake. And so people were anti-mask. They were anti-vaccine. They were anti-keeping students six feet away from each other. They wanted to just get back to normal when science at that point was telling us not to do so.

Frederica Freyberg:

Then this fall there was school board debate around a less inclusive policy for transgender students in Rice Lake schools, policies that you describe as previously supportive of LGBTQ students. How in your mind did that make students and staff feel, these new kind of policies?

Abbey Fischer:

The students themselves at our October 12th board meeting said that the previous policy saved their lives. They were able to be themselves in our buildings. They were able to be themselves with their instructors and with their peers as they were ready to be. The new policy, the current policy, does not allow students to use the names that they wish to or the pronouns they wish to until they have come out to their parents. As a lesbian, I know how challenging it is to come out to your own parents and to ask students to come out to their parents before they’re ready puts them at risk for potential complications at home and also potential mental health complications.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how did a group called the Barron County Patriots and their supporters respond to this issue?

Abbey Fischer:

The Patriots and others for well over a year, this started probably in September or October of 2021, were loud in their opposition to the inclusive classrooms and the inclusive curriculum that the Rice Lake School District was offering. They came to school board meetings and spoke during public appearances. They spoke horrendous statements, untrue, harmful, hurtful statements about LGBTQI+ people and they continued that up and to this policy was passed and they believe that — a lot of them seem to believe that we should not be allowing students to be themselves within the classroom.

Frederica Freyberg:

What are some of their beliefs that they expressed?

Abbey Fischer:

We heard things that transgender individuals are mentally ill. We heard that transgender individuals really don’t exist and we just all need to be comfortable with our gender. We heard many statements that being LGBTQI+ is against the Bible and that we need to spend more time in church.

Frederica Freyberg:

How did that affect you personally?

Abbey Fischer:

As a lesbian, it was hard to hear my community talked about like that. It started, again, a year prior and as a board member, we sit quietly at our table and we don’t converse with the public appearance speakers because that’s our policy. So to have to sit and listen to these untrue statements and to the harmful rhetoric was weighing on me heavily to the point where my mental health was not good. And so I chose to resign and my mental health has significantly improved without having to listen to those comments and not be able to respond.

Frederica Freyberg:

In your mind, was this an example you spoke to just a little bit earlier, but an example of national rhetoric reaching into local communities?

Abbey Fischer:

Absolutely. The language that we saw against the masks, the language we saw against the vaccines and the language we saw against LGBTQ students and curriculum absolutely is the same language that other school districts are seeing and we’re seeing it both here in Wisconsin and across the country.

Frederica Freyberg:

So earlier you said that the more supportive policies students had told you that it saved their lives. What about these new policies?

Abbey Fischer:

We don’t yet know their effects. At the October 12th board meeting when they were adopted, the district did not yet have a way to enact them. As far as I’ve heard, I don’t think they have a way to make it happen yet. What will likely happen is that students will probably not come out to their — will not feel safe expressing who they are to staff and that makes the learning environment a less supportive place, a place they don’t really want to be at. Often for LGBTQI+ individuals, school is often where people come out first as a place to try it and see what it feels like. Now we’ve taken that away from students. They have to come out at home, which is often the scariest place to come out. And that’s even with supportive parents. My parents were supportive but still, it took me a long time to come out to them. We’ve taken a place where students often explore and figure out who they are. We’ve taken that away from you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Does it strike you that it will end here on this issue?

Abbey Fischer:

Absolutely not. The Patriots and others in town have already begun to fight against the inclusive human growth and development curriculum that the Rice Lake School District offers. I don’t think that will stop. And then also they have made comments about our social studies curriculum. I think that will also continue.

Frederica Freyberg:

Abbey Fischer, we appreciate you speaking with us on this and bringing us the perspective from what is happening in Rice Lake. Thank you.

Abbey Fischer:

Thank you for the opportunity.

Frederica Freyberg:

Inflation remains high for things like food and fuel. In response, the fed continues to hike interest rates which has cooled the home buying market. But consumers continue to spend and the job market is still hot. Those are some of the observations from our next guest here to talk with us about Wisconsin’s economic condition and the question everybody wants to know, is there a recession on the horizon? Kevin Bahr is professor of finance of UW Stevens Point and chief analyst for its Center for Business and Economic Insight. Thanks very much for joining us.

Kevin Bahr:

My pleasure, thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is the condition of the overall economy right now? Are we slowing down even sliding toward a recession?

Kevin Bahr:

The general consensus for next year is that the United States will slip into a recession. But the general consensus is also that the recession should be relatively short lived and relatively minor. Relatively minor is key in that yes, people are going to get hurt but it is not supposed to be as bad as what the recession was in 2020, 2008 or the early 1980s.

Frederica Freyberg:

That is comforting. Do the recent layoffs in the tech industry spell economic downturn right now?

Kevin Bahr:

I think the recent layoffs in the tech industry, those are a little bit different from what’s going on with the rest of the economy. I think the recent layoffs in the tech industry, they have their own specific sort of company and industry issues. There will be a slowdown overall in the United States’ economy and you can expect job losses and unemployment to go up. But the tech industry is a little bit different. They’ve got their own specific issues to work through.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, right now the overall job market even in Wisconsin is still super-hot?

Kevin Bahr:

The job market is incredibly hot. In October we had 153.3 million people working in the United States. That’s more than at any other time in the history of the United States. Wage growth in August was 6.7% at an annualized rate. That went down to 6.3% in September but that reflects the hot labor market as well as currently, in October, there were two job openings for every unemployed person. So all those factors combine into a very hot labor market.

Frederica Freyberg:

Even in the face of inflation, how is it that consumer spending is holding?

Kevin Bahr:

Well, I think part of the reason consumer spending is holding is because the job market has been so hot. You’ve got record employment levels. You’ve got wages going up. So the job market has really kind of fueled consumer spending. The increase in the interest rates by the fed last two quarters, investment spending has declined in the United States but consumption spending has increased ever since the second quarter of 2020. It has been up, up and away with consumer spending. It is lower now than what it had been last year but it’s still increasing. That is the rate of growth is lower now than last year.

Frederica Freyberg:

Does that suggest that inflation isn’t really hitting people?

Kevin Bahr:

I think inflation is hitting people, but they still have money to spend. And I would point out that inflation right now, this is global. It’s a global issue. Inflation right now is varying between 7 and 10% in Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, Europe including Germany and Italy. So this is basically a global issue. A lot of the factors affecting those — that inflation worldwide relates to the war in Ukraine and supply chain issues.

Frederica Freyberg:

So holiday retail is always an indicator. What are the expectations for that?

Kevin Bahr:

That’s going to be something very interesting to watch. In October retail sales increased. So there are different forecasts for retail sales. When you start getting into forecasting the economy next year and whether or not you’re going to have a recession, this is almost like doing a long-range weather forecast where you’re pretty confident it’s going to be cloudy and you’re pretty confident that it’s not going to storm, but it might rain, it might not rain. And in any event, the economy is going to slow. How quickly, how fast it slows, that’s still subject to question.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, we appreciate your prognostications and your expertise. Kevin Bahr, professor of finance at UW Stevens Point, thank you very much.

Kevin Bahr:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.