Here & Now

Here & Now for May 8, 2020

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” the Wisconsin Supreme Court weighs in on the extended “Safer at Home” order. We have reaction from Governor Tony Evers in our weekly one-on-one interview. Plus, Republican Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke. Also, a preview of next week’s special election in Wisconsin’s 7th Congressional District. It’s “Here & Now” for May 8.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

This week Wisconsin’s Supreme Court entered the battle between Republicans and Democrats in the COVID-19 pandemic. At issue, whether Health Services Secretary-designee Andrea Palm exceeded her authority and violated state law by ordering an emergency extension of “Safer at Home.” Those opposed to that extension say it has wrecked the state’s economy. Those in favor counter that Wisconsin’s coronavirus infection rate and the number of deaths will soar should the order be lifted.

Colin Roth:

In the midst of the deadliest pandemic the world has faced in over a century, the Legislature asks this court to handcuff DHS’s power to combat infectious disease.

Rebecca Bradley:

I’ll direct your attention to another time in history and the Korematsu Decision, where the court said the need for action was great and time was short and that justified, and I’m quoting, “assembling together and placing under guard all those of Japanese ancestry in assembly centers during World War II.”

Annette Ziegler:

Part of the problem we have is we may personally think things make sense, but we have to apply Constitutional principles and the language of the statute and the law to figure out whether it actually does make sense.

Colin Roth:

You’ve got to look very closely and not issue a decision that’s too broad because people will die if this order is enjoined with nothing to replace it. That is exactly what will happen.

Frederica Freyberg:

The state spent the week waiting to learn how the Wisconsin Supreme Court would rule in the Republican Legislature’s lawsuit against the Evers’ Administration over the extension of the “Safer at Home” order that lasts through Memorial Day. Perhaps no one is more invested in that decision than the governor himself. Late Friday afternoon and ahead of that ruling, I talked with Governor Tony Evers in our weekly one-on-one interview. And, governor, thank you so much for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica. Appreciate that.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what are you prepared for with the Supreme Court decision?

Tony Evers:

Well, I believe that — I believe we’ll win. I think if you look at the state statutes, if you look at precedent, if you look at the facts in the case, I think we win. Now, the court may decide to not use those same criteria, but I think we have a good chance of winning. The problem around the issue of if we lose, there are so many moving parts. I mean, there’s the case that the Republicans brought against me, and then there’s another case there that has been brought forth by a couple Wisconsin citizens on a freedom of religion approach or issue. So if they combine those two, there’s just so many moving parts. It is absolutely impossible to say if this happens, this is the direction we’re going to go, this is going to go. We’ll wait till the decision coming down and then we’ll figure out a way to move forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know one approach that has some traction on the part of the business community is kind of a regional reopening. Do you think that can work?

Tony Evers:

Well, I think it probably can, but I think there’s also things we can do on the statewide area. Doing things in small groups in different parts of the state, there’s some downsides to that. I’ve talked about this before in different venues, but the ability for smaller counties and smaller regions, rural regions of the state to, if there’s a surge in the virus coming forward, they don’t have the public health system that other counties do and other regions do. So there’s downsides to it, and I’m more than willing to look at that. But that is not a whole plan. A whole plan will look a lot different. So I’m looking forward to finally seeing a plan. The Republicans said when they filed the suit that they had a plan. And the only thing I’ve heard so far is about doing things by region and that’s something to look at, but that is not an entire plan.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know that the Republican leadership is seeking what they call a “collaborative approach,” they to want work with you on this, and you did meet with leadership this week. How do you expect that to go?

Tony Evers:

Well, I think it will be fine going forward. If they have a plan, I welcome that. When we met, we talked about regional approach and we both talked about the different ways of doing that. But that in and of itself isn’t a plan. I’m more than willing to hear any plan that they have. And going forward after the Supreme Court decision, we’ll figure out what we have to do to move forward. But it will depend on how that decision is written, and there are many, many moving parts that we don’t know how that’s going to be resolved.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would there be any kind of nonstarters for you in terms of any plan different from the extended “Safer at Home” or the Badger Bounce Back plan?

Tony Evers:

Well, I think we are looking towards dialing — moving the dial at any point in time. In fact, we did just a couple weeks ago. So there aren’t any things I’m not willing to listen to, but let’s have a comprehensive plan, which we haven’t had yet.

Frederica Freyberg:

One thing that has people asking whether or not you’re edging toward a sooner reopening than potentially after Memorial Day is this new guidance from the WEDC about how businesses can prepare to reopen. What kinds of things are in that guidance? And is it a measure that you’re moving closer to that?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly it’s a measure that we have — you know, as we’ve focused on testing and the things in the public sector or public health side, we’ve really brought a lot to the table already and we’re meeting a lot of the metrics. They’re getting closer to the metrics that we set out. So clearly we do believe we’re going to be reopening some aspects of the business world in a safe and orderly and thoughtful way. And, yes, I think that’s an indication of that. But it’s also an indication that we believe that people need to start thinking about what their businesses will look like after they’re open.

Frederica Freyberg:

What continues to concern you around COVID-19 in Wisconsin?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly the surges we’re having across the state, in Brown County is a good example. And, frankly, I’m also concerned about the fact that people that disproportionately have difficult health outcomes because of their living in poverty, having poor housing. All those things are playing out again in this instance. And that’s why we’re very insistent that we make sure we have these community testing opportunities for people all across the state, but especially where we have bad outcomes. We need that data to move forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

With just about a half a minute left, what is encouraging for you on this COVID-19 front?

Tony Evers:

Well, we’re up to 14,000 tests a day. I think the last couple days were about 14,000. That’s huge. The more tests we do — and we’re also hiring — lots of people are interested in doing the contact tracing. All the things that really help us take care of surges and make sure that we diminish the role of the virus in our life. Those things are in place. And so I feel very good about that. And people making sure that they’re socially distant from people and staying healthy.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Governor Tony Evers, we need to leave it there. Thank you very much.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would a Republican-controlled legislative response to the COVID-19 crisis look like? The legislative process can sometimes take weeks or months. That’s a time line that is problematic for both sides. Republicans say they plan to move quickly. As of Friday at noon, no ruling from the State Supreme Court. Wisconsin Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke was able to join us early this afternoon. And, representative, thanks very much for being here.

Jim Steineke:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, so detail for us, please, what the Republican legislative leadership plan to reopen the state looks like.

Jim Steineke:

Yeah. So I appreciate the question. I know that’s one of the questions we’ve been getting a lot, is what is the Republican plan for reopening the state. We’ve really tried to steer clear of that because we don’t think that there should be a Democratic plan. We don’t think there should be a Republican plan. We think that there should be a plan that we work on together that suits all of Wisconsin and that all of us can support. So we didn’t want to do negotiations through the media on any particular ideas other than we think that the plan should be regional and incorporate some of those aspects as far as being able to open in areas where there’s less severe infections. We really just want to sit down with the governor and figure it out together.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to get to that so-called “Wisconsin plan” in just a moment, but in terms of kind of a regional reopening plan, what about concerns that you just spread the virus as people get out across the state, say, to vacation homes or campsites?

Jim Steineke:

Sure. I mean, we live in a free country, right? So people are going to have freedom of movement no matter when you open, whether it’s the whole state or whether it’s regions of the country. We’re starting to see Democratic governors in other states like Illinois, Michigan and New York who have had much more severe problems with the virus than Wisconsin has, they’re incorporating regional aspects into their plan. We simply can’t afford to allow the entire state to be shut down when there’s very few problems in the vast majority of the counties of the state.

Frederica Freyberg:

If cases were to increase and public health officials say they almost certainly would if you kind of reopen the state, but if cases were to increase, would you call or would you be in favor of reinstating stricter “stay at home” orders at that point?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah. I think any plan going forward should have some sort of a throttle, where you can gradually open the economy up, but then if there are severe cases where the hospital system is overrun, that you can start to throttle that back. That’s the important thing for people to remember. This was never about getting to a point where we have zero infections. It’s really about getting to the point where our hospitals are not overwhelmed. And that’s the case right now in the state. Thankfully, our hospitals are not being overwhelmed with the virus, so it is time in a vast majority of the state to start to reopen. But, again, if there are issues where there becomes a crisis, then we can start to throttle back.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, Speaker Vos in fact says whenever we reopen, it is not going to be possible to prevent all deaths. Is that just the price to pay here?

Jim Steineke:

Well, yeah. I mean, so this whole idea of a shutdown, of “Safer at Home,” was, again, about slowing the spread. The nature of the virus is you’re not going to stop it. Even in New York, you’re seeing a lot of cases coming out of New York where the people were sheltered at home and still got the virus. So we’re not going to be able to completely stop the spread. But we also can’t wait for it to become — to get down to zero before we start to open up the economy again. It’s just something that our families can’t afford to hang on for the next eight, 12 months before we get a vaccine.

Frederica Freyberg:

So as you described earlier, leadership met with Governor Evers this week and Speaker Vos again said that he was interested in not a Republican plan or a Democratic plan, but a Wisconsin plan. But I read that he said that it doesn’t have to be adversarial. But how adversarial was that lawsuit?

Jim Steineke:

Well, and that’s — I appreciate your bringing up this point, because I’ve heard this before, where Republicans in the Legislature are being accused of being partisan through this process, which is really kind of strange to me, because the only person being — that I would say being partisan in this is the governor in that he is insisting on having full control over this with no input from the Legislature. He is insisting that they have the unilateral ability to impose these restrictions with no legislative oversight. And according to them, they can do this indefinitely. So what we’re saying is, the lawsuit really is about getting us to work together. Not saying we have to have our way. That’s not how the legislative process works. But saying we should all be at the table so the people of Wisconsin through their elected representatives can have a voice in this process. Currently, they don’t.

Frederica Freyberg:

So when you were all at the table this week, how did that go?

Jim Steineke:

Well, I wasn’t there, so it was Speaker Vos and Majority Leader Fitzgerald along with the two Democratic leaders of each house. But I think it went fairly well. I don’t think anybody drew any lines in the sand, said absolutely “no” to anything that was proposed. But that being said, we have to start having more regular communications and more regular negotiations as we go forward, especially as this Supreme Court decision looms over us. If that comes down in the Legislature’s favor, we’re going to have to act quickly. And I think we should be preparing for that by continually having meetings. I know the governor didn’t want to have another meeting until at least next week. I still think we should be meeting on a regular basis, at least every other day to try to come together around a plan that can work for everybody.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. Majority Leader Jim Steineke, thank you very much for joining us.

Jim Steineke:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

As debate rages on how and when to reopen Wisconsin for business, the state is nearing 10,000 cases and 400 COVID-19 deaths. Andrea Palm oversees Wisconsin’s health care response to the pandemic. Secretary-designee Palm, thank you for joining us on this.

Andrea Palm:

Thanks for having me back.

Frederica Freyberg:

So your health department released its gating criteria in the form of a dashboard this week to show progress on areas needed, according to the administration, to restart the state. According to that dashboard, of six measures, we’re good to go on just one, the downward projectory of flu-like symptoms. Where we still have not met this criteria to open, it includes a 14-day downward trajectory in positive cases and people reporting systems of COVID-19. Where do we stand on that at week’s end?

Andrea Palm:

So as we have expanded testing pretty dramatically, both our capacity and working to expand the number of tests we’re doing on a daily basis, we certainly are seeing this level off in a way that I think gives us some hope that we are certainly moving in the right direction. Our percentage yesterday was 5.7%, which is considerably lower than about the 10% we’ve been seeing as sort of a flat line. And so we are hopeful that as we ramp up testing and start to really understand the outbreak here in Wisconsin, that we will see the numbers going in the right direction. But it also speaks to our need to continue to stay safer at home.

Frederica Freyberg:

So on that 14-day downward trajectory, we have been on a day-by-day downward trajectory and what are we at now, about five or six days on that?

Andrea Palm:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s somewhere between five and seven, yeah, that we’re seeing some downward movement. So that’s good.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you spoke to ramping up testing, and I know the capacity right now is to test about 15,000 people a day. Where are we on actual number of tests that are being done?

Andrea Palm:

So we hit a high number yesterday, our highest ever, at over 5500 tests, and so that is — that speaks to our partnership with the National Guard, who have really helped drive a number of community testing sites around the state to help us understand prevalence, but up those numbers so that we’re really starting to reach our goals of testing for the state of Wisconsin and we’ll continue to do that in the coming weeks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is it still the case that potentially health care providers are not encouraging people under, you know, fairly recent guidance to go ahead and get a test?

Andrea Palm:

So I think we’re working hard. We just a couple of weeks ago, if you have symptoms, stay home, right? That was our message. And so this is a major shift, to encouraging people, even with the mildest of symptoms, to go and get tested. And so I think that’s some of why you’re seeing this lag in the number of tests we’re doing on a daily basis. But opening up access, being clear that the guidance is loosened, making these drive-through testing sites available, again, for easy access for people. We really do hope to see a ramping up of the number of tests we’re doing every day.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is it accurate that you are now testing everyone in long-term care facilities?

Andrea Palm:

So part of our strategy of this community testing, outbreak testing and long-term care testing are critical pieces of, again, helping us understand the epidemic here. One of the things we’ve talked about from the very beginning is the vulnerability of people who live in long-term care. They’re most susceptible to severe disease and death and spread in those facilities can happen quickly. So our desire to be partners with long-term care and test everyone in facilities across the state will help us find cases that had previously been undetected so we can react quickly and help protect the people who live there.

Frederica Freyberg:

If we are doing those kind of tests in long-term care facilities, what are the kinds of results you are seeing?

Andrea Palm:

We have begun to have conversations with long-term care, about 50 or 60 so far, and are continuing to work through the progression of our teams going out and doing that testing. We have, on an outbreak basis, done some testing in long-term care and have made that information public on our website. And so if there’s one case, either staff or resident in long-term care, we want — we previously had wanted to be there and do testing and help with that testing. And so far, we have had good partnerships and been able to do the work necessary in those long-term care facilities, but we want to do that more broadly and more strategically moving forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

What’s the current status of outbreaks at meat-packing plants and latest case numbers connected to those outbreaks?

Andrea Palm:

So one of the pieces of transparency we have tried to add to the website is this, where are the outbreaks, what kinds of places are they and then to be helping with the testing and contact tracing around those. And so of the about 235 right now, some are in long-term care, some are in businesses. Meat-packing is one, but there are other types of businesses that are having outbreaks. You can see on a county by county basis where those are and what times of places we’re seeing those outbreaks and we think that’s important information for people.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your response to those who have said that you did not have the authority to extend the “Safer at Home” order and some who even want you fired over it?

Andrea Palm:

Throughout this pandemic, we have done at the Department of Health Services and with our partners across the statewide response, done what we felt was necessary to protect the people of Wisconsin, to protect our health and safety. And we’ve seen that “Safer at Home” is working. We are flattening the curve. We have saved lives. And we are taking the time that was given to us through “Safer at Home” to build up our testing capacity, our contact tracing capacity and our partnerships with local communities to help fight this virus on the ground moving forward. And so I think we feel very, very good about the fact that the strategies we have deployed have helped us do the things we need to do here in Wisconsin to protect the people of the state.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Secretary-designee Palm, thanks very much.

Andrea Palm:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Next Tuesday, voters in 26 counties in northern Wisconsin will go to the polls for the second time during the COVID-19 health crisis. This time, it’s the 7th Congressional District special election to replace Sean Duffy, who resigned last year. “Here & Now” Senior Political Reporter Zac Schultz tells us the race is impacted by both the coronavirus and the shifting allegiance of voters in that district.

Zac Schultz:

For the last decade, Wisconsin’s 7th Congressional has been a safe seat for Republican Sean Duffy.

Sean Duffy:

But then, we get rid of all the loophole…`

Zac Schultz:

In five races, Duffy never faced much of a challenge. After redistricting in 2012, he never received less than 60% of the vote.

Dave Obey:

When I went to Congress…

Zac Schultz:

But for 40 years before that, Wisconsin’s 7th was blue, home to Democratic Dave Obey. So what happened? And what does that say about Tuesday’s special election between Republican Tom Tiffany and Democratic Tricia Zunker.

Tricia Zunker:

Well, there’s a little thing called gerrymandering that occurred in 2010.

Zac Schultz:

Most Democrats blame the 2012 redistricting plan which removed some Democratic areas of the district, like Portage County, and added in more of western Wisconsin, which typically votes more Republican.

Tom Tiffany:

But the main thing that’s changed is the Democrat Party. I talked to so many people who are John F. Kennedy Democrats who are like, “I don’t recognize my party anymore.”

Zac Schultz:

Republicans say rural voters don’t feel at home in a progressive, urban and multicultural Democratic Party. Both concepts hold some truth, but neither tells the whole story. Rural districts across the nation have been shifting away from Democrats over the last decade. But we don’t have to look far to see Democrat Ron kind in the 3rd Congressional in western Wisconsin, which is almost as rural as the 7th. And while redistricting certainly made the 7th more Republican, that doesn’t explain Sean Duffy’s margin of victory. There are 14 counties that stayed in the 7th from Dave Obey’s last decade in office. Obey never lost one of these counties from 2002 to ’08. But from 2010 to ’18, the voters moved toward the Republicans by 169%. In fact, Marathon County, Obey’s home base, shifted by 295%, a 22,000-vote swing from Democrats to Republicans.

Katie Rosenberg:

I guess a couple of things happened.

Zac Schultz:

Katie Rosenberg is the newly-elected mayor of Wausau and used to sit on the Marathon County Board.

Katie Rosenberg:

You’re seeing a lot of population shifting. You’re seeing our populations get a lot older.

Zac Schultz:

She says the shift in the 7th started happening long before Sean Duffy.

Katie Rosenberg:

You probably would have been seeing some of the more cultural changes moving along during Dave Obey’s time. But, like you said, he wasn’t seeing a lot of challenges, serious challenges.

Zac Schultz:

What this shows is the power of incumbency. The same happened with Sean Duffy. He faced a string of under-funded and relatively unknown Democratic opponents. The 7th Congressional is huge, currently spanning 26 counties and three different television markets.

Sean Duffy:

Congressman Sean Duffy.

Zac Schultz:

Political newcomers face a huge challenge in getting their name out there and raising money. And once you’re in office, you can cement your name in voters’ minds.

Katie Rosenberg:

Once you establish in-district offices, they have a direct conduit. It’s that name recognition over and over again.

Zac Schultz:

Which is why this special election is so important. Even though they’ll have to defend the seat this November, the history of the 7th says the winner may hold this seat for a long time. I’m Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

That is our program for this week. Be sure to join us online for updates on the COVID-19 pandemic at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the ‘news’ tab. That’s where you will also find the latest information regarding the State Supreme Court’s decision on extending “Safer at Home.” Also for ongoing coverage of the coronavirus response in Wisconsin, visit our partner news site at WisContext.org. This week, tracking test positivity rates as COVID-19 spreads in Wisconsin. That’s WisContext.org. Thank you for watching “Here & Now.” Stay well, Wisconsin, and we will see you next week. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.