Zac Schultz:
I’m Zac Schultz. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Governor Tony Evers is here after touring the state this week with his proposed budget. There’s room for bipartisan agreement on the topic of homelessness. UW System President Ray Cross is here with an inside look at the budget and the state of higher education in Wisconsin. It’s “Here & Now” for March 8th.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Zac Schultz:
Our first look tonight is at Governor Tony Evers’ budget proposal. The governor has spent the last week on the road promoting his ideas around the state and he joins us now in the studio. Thanks for being here.

Tony Evers:
Thanks, Zac. Appreciate it.

Zac Schultz:
It’s been a week. You’ve heard from Republicans. You’ve been on the road. How do you feel about your budget?

Tony Evers:
I feel good. I mean this budget is a reflection of not only the campaign for governor, high priority issues around education, transportation, health care. But Lieutenant Governor Barnes and myself, we went all across the state after the election and holding listening sessions and, again, I feel confident that this truly is the people’s budget and it’s reflective of their expectations of us.

Zac Schultz:
Now you hadn’t even delivered the speech before some Republicans starting calling it extreme and liberal spending and too much. Since then have any of the conversations started in terms of working forward as opposed to talking around?

Tony Evers:
That’s a great question. I would say I’m spending my time out-state encouraging people to be actively involved in this dialogue, too. I think that’s important. It can’t just be closed session between — among myself and the leadership. So — but yes. I think at the end of the day, we will find common ground on those issues. Republicans want good schools, good roads and good health care as much as anybody else. So, you know, there’s always going to be the huffing and puffing going on around this. That doesn’t concern me. It’s moving it forward in a proactive way.

Zac Schultz:
Now your budget increases state spending by $2.7 billion over the biennium and spends down the surplus. Is that fiscally responsible?

Tony Evers:
Absolutely it is. I mean I — I think people should wait for the Legislative Fiscal Bureau to come up with their analysis. I think they’ll find that it’s in good shape. I think we will have a surplus left and we will be putting money into the rainy day fund, I believe, if not very close to it. So I think it is a fiscally sound one. And it’s also making up for some issues that we’ve left behind in the past, roads and schools and health care certainly some of those issues.

Zac Schultz:
Governor Walker and Republicans struggled with transportation for eight years. Are you expecting to try to make up that ground in the first two or how long do you think it takes to catch up?

Tony Evers:
We absolutely have to have a sustainable funding system for that and we’ve laid one out for the people and we’re hopeful that it will get adopted. And yes. Will we be able to make this up in two years? Absolutely not. There’s enough pent-up demand for filling potholes, for gosh’s sake, not only our roads. So yes. It’s going to be off to a good start and itll get us in a better place and give us a sustainable fund that we won’t have to raid the general fund in order to pay for our roads going forward. I think that’s critically important.

Zac Schultz:
You released your capital budget yesterday, $2 billion in borrowing for that, half of that for the UW system. At what point does debt service start to threaten the general fund when it comes to all the borrowing?

Tony Evers:
We’re at a pretty low point. After this budget — this budget will have us at a pretty low point as far as borrowing. I feel good about it. There is across especially the University of Wisconsin System, there is critical needs in addition to building new buildings. We have some extraordinarily long list of maintenance projects that have been completely, not completely but almost completely ignored going forward. There are needs there. This is a good time to bond and it’s a good time to rectify those situations.

Zac Schultz:
Now there are a number of items in your budget that Republicans have said for years are non-starters. Political observers say that there’s no way these will pass, so why put them in there? Why promote them? Are you speaking to your supporters or what’s the point of addressing some of these?

Tony Evers:
Well certainly — I’ll use Medicaid expansion as an example. Whether you’re looking at polls or anything else, people understand how important that is not only for those 82,000 people that we can now provide affordable and adequate health care about, but it brings in over $300 million that we can use for infant mortality issues and making sure that women have the best health care possible and making sure we have a good, solid health system in the state of Wisconsin. So I think — and I know the other side has already said that’s a non-starter. Well at the end of the day, somehow we need to reflect the needs of the people of Wisconsin and they have spoken on this issue. Certainly part of the campaign and certainly part of polling that we’ve seen. So I’m looking forward to having a good discussion around that and we’re going to have lots of support around this. Whether it’s people that are part of the hospital world or the practitioners of the state. They understand how important this step is. So we’ll continue to fight and dialogue about this and I think at the end of the day, we will get some common ground.

Zac Schultz:
Speaking about Medicaid expansion, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos has said that it would actually damage the private insurance market and there’s a conservative study from UW System that says the same thing, in the long run, it’ll save government money but cost the overall system.

Tony Evers:
I don’t agree with that at all. I think it’ll help stabilize the private marketplace. It’ll help because it’ll be taking people that are heavy users of health care, you know, possibly being helped by Medicaid money. So I think it’s going to stabilize the private marketplace and make us all stronger.

Zac Schultz:
You mentioned the polling support and in your speech, you talked about the polling support and even called out individual Republicans in your speech and said people in your district support this.

Tony Evers:
Right.

Zac Schultz:
Do you expect public pressure to change the mind of legislators who got elected as part of a party who have a philosophy?

Tony Evers:
Yes. Yes. If I was a local official and somebody called up and said, “Hey, think about this Medicaid expansion. This is what can do for me personally.” Do I expect that they would listen and say, “Yes,” or at least consider it? Yes. That’s why we’re doing exactly what we’re doing. This budget is in my opinion, the people’s budget. And all politics are local. And I’ve seen that before and I’ve actually seen it in this last election. So we’re expecting to have organizations and individuals across the state making sure that their elected officials understand what’s at stake here.

Zac Schultz:
It’s been more than a decade since we’ve had divided government and most of the legislature has come into term since that. They’ve never experienced that. So is it natural to expect some loss of institutional muscle memory, so to speak? It’ll take a while for people to remember how to work across the aisle?

Tony Evers:
Possibly. But I think it will happen. Of all the things that I learned on this campaign, there’s three major issues and I mentioned them before. But the most important one is people want civility and they want us to accomplish something. And I don’t think I’m the only one that hears that message. I’m sure every one of the legislators also hear it, Republicans and Democrats. So, yes, we are a divided government. But I think Republicans want good schools, good health care and good roads as much as Democrats do. And the people of Wisconsin expect it. So I think at the end of the day after the huffing and puffing of this part of it, once we get into the budget time, I think we’ll have some good successes.

Zac Schultz:
Now, some of the ideas in your budget that Republicans like they’ve talked about splitting out into separate legislation, sending them to committee. We’ve already seen that with some of the homelessness bills that have been proposed. Are you okay with that or do you think it works better if they’re in the budget?

Tony Evers:
Well I think it’s far superior to have as part of the budget and the middle class income tax is a good example. That I vetoed. I vetoed it because it wasn’t sustainable going forward. But as part of a budget deliberation, I think the Democrats and Republicans will be on the same side. They want to give middle class taxpayers a tax cut. It’s figuring out how. And I think together we can do that. So I think the budget is a good place to make sure that we’re able to connect the dots in a way that’s important.

Zac Schultz:
Now, Republicans are scared of your veto pen. It is a very powerful veto pen. Are you expecting to give them assurances throughout this process on what you will and won’t touch as part of the negotiation?

Tony Evers:
Maybe at some point in time. Not now. What I want to avoid is having to veto an entire budget. That would seem to be counterproductive, period. But if a budget comes to me that’s almost exclusively unsustainable or not what I ran on or what the people of Wisconsin voted for, then I would. But I suppose at some point in time we will be at the time of a horse training run, what’s vetoed or not. But not at this point in time.

Zac Schultz:
Since it’s been so long since we’ve had divided government, in that timespan there’s so many outside, external pressures on lawmakers to avoid compromise, to avoid making a deal, social media, third-party interest groups, national groups that don’t really care about good policy in Wisconsin. How do you cut through that noise to keep people together?

Tony Evers:
Well, it’s about doing what the people of Wisconsin want and, by golly, if we do that, I’ll be glad to share the limelight with any Republican to allow that to happen, to make that happen. It is — you know, I know being reelected is real important to people that are in my position or others. But at the end of the day, if we don’t deliver for the people of Wisconsin, no one’s going to win. And that is bad politically and frankly it’s bad for the state of Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
Now, during Governor Doyle and Governor Scott Walker’s time, we heard them use the phrase “we’ll see when it comes to my desk” quite a bit when talking about potential legislation. Do you expect to be using that same phrase in terms of not wanting to publically negotiate yes or no on a bill?

Tony Evers:
That depends. I wouldn’t stake out a negotiating protocol at this point in time. But yes. I mean, at the end of the day, especially because of recent times and this includes both sides of the aisle, what is sort of what you think is a last step in the process isn’t and then at the last moment a bunch of things are thrown in that are really egregious. So Im guessing I will say that at some point in time. But if we’re able to reach agreement on a lot of things ahead of time, hopefully there’s not a lot to do at the last minute.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Governor Tony Evers, thanks for your time.

Tony Evers:
Thanks Zac.

Zac Schultz:
As we continue to watch the budget process unfold, Marisa Wojcik brings us some areas where we might see compromise possible.

Marisa Wojcik:
Last Thursday, Governor Tony Evers introduced his first biennial budget to the full legislature and the people of Wisconsin.

Tony Evers:
This is the people’s budget.

Marisa Wojcik:
The budget’s first stop is the Republican-controlled legislature.

Scott Fitzgerald:
To me, it’s a 1,000-page press release, not a budget.

Marisa Wojcik:
Although division among Democrats and Republicans is familiar territory, there are a few areas where both sides can find common ground. For transportation spending, both sides agree that funds need to be generated, not borrowed. Evers proposed raising the gas tax by eight cents per gallon. He defends this hike by saying it will be offset by overriding an old law called the “minimum markup” which raises fuel prices across the board and prevents big retailers from undercutting smaller gas stations. Both of these solutions have been proposed in the past. On education, Evers proposed a K-12 education funding increase of $1.4 billion, allowing school districts to increase local property taxes. And he cited a Marquette Law School poll and statewide increases in local referendums for public school funding to defend this decision. His budget also continues a Walker-era tuition freeze for UW System schools. On criminal justice, some Republicans have shown support for increased compensation for public defenders, more resources for district attorneys and for the Department of Justice, issues that Evers also addressed in his budget. Overall, many of Evers’ initiatives might be the ideals of his supporters, but are non-starters for his partisan opponents in the legislature. But there is one issue that has less friction and more traction and that is homelessness. Last week Republicans introduced eight bills to address homelessness and Governor Tony Evers will chair a panel on this issue himself. For these and other fast facts, visit wpt.org.

Zac Schultz:
That interagency panel on homelessness was created under Governor Walker and originally chaired by Lieutenant Governor Rebecca Kleefisch. Joining us now is one of the co-authors of the Republican bills, Representative Pat Snyder, who joins us from Wausau. Thanks for your time today.

Pat Snyder:
Well, thank you for inviting me Zac.

Zac Schultz:
Governor Evers’ budget adopts all of the recommendations of that council and he says that differs a little bit from what’s included in your package of bills. What’s not in there and why so?

Pat Snyder:
Probably just some of the numbers that we were talking about in some of our bills. But I think when we go over this and look at whatever he doesn’t include in his budget, we’ll be able to add some separate legislation to be able to get everything that we wanted to as the council to move forward.

Zac Schultz:
Now, would you prefer to see your bills advance in the legislature? Are you okay if they end up in the budget? Does it really matter in the end?

Pat Snyder:
Well, the legislature we could put on situations where we could add funding each biennium for the future. Sometimes when they go in the budget, it would only be that budget session or that two-year period. So either way I think this is a good start because if there isn’t something that creates revolving money if we need that, then we can come back and address it on the legislative side. As you said a little earlier, this is a very bipartisan issue and we worked together so well last session and I see the same thing moving forward this session.

Zac Schultz:
Now, Assembly Democrats were upset when you rolled out these bills with a press conference in Milwaukee and they said that they weren’t invited. What voice will they have in this debate and how important is it to even have side by side, Democrats and Republicans?

Pat Snyder:
That was — we sent out invitations and at least in my neck of the woods, about the only — the Democrat is Katrina Shankland. I don’t know exactly where she was. We held a news conference here in Wausau. I think the reason why we did that just was to be able to put that on the radar of the governor when he was going into his budget. Because at that time the interagency on homelessness really hadn’t put a new person as director. Well, the governor stepped in now where the lieutenant governor was and he has just named someone here earlier this week or late last week to take over as executive director. So those are some of the things we were a little concerned that it wasn’t maybe being addressed. So we had the initiative to come out with these bills. We were glad that in his budget address that he did include a good portion of these in his budget.

Zac Schultz:
Now, you represent the city of Wausau and parts of Marathon County. Does homelessness in your part of the state need a different approach than in Milwaukee or another large city?

Pat Snyder:
It might not be as, you know, visible as they are in Milwaukee and Madison and those areas, but yes. Homelessness does affect this area. We have an outstanding homelessness coalition through the United Way that I’m part of. And I really became involved with them back when I was working as outreach director for Congressman Duffy and I wanted to carry it through when I was elected in 2016. We’ve been out on point in time and this last January, we located four individuals that were actually outside in the weather. And of course then we also count the folks that are in shelters and warming centers as well. But, yes, it is prevalent. This is kind of — here in Wausau it’s more of a hidden situation. People every day don’t realize when they drive over a bridge that there’s probably a dozen to 14 people under that bridge. That’s something we want to do, is make them more visible and realize that whatever trauma they had in their life is still affecting them today.

Zac Schultz:
And that seems why this is getting such bipartisan support is it’s not just homelessness in a certain part of the state or a certain city. It’s everywhere.

Pat Snyder:
Exactly, Zac. It ties together with everything. From my foster care task force with Representative Doyle that we had, we learned some of the traumatic things that these kids go through and then become adults and then suddenly have trauma when they are in their 20s or 30s. We see the suicide rate go up. It all seems to be tied together with the common factor being trauma experienced earlier in life.

Zac Schultz:
And we’ve only got less than a minutes here, but you talk about connecting the dots. Governor Evers has used that slogan as well. Does that need a budget-sized approach or can you do that piecemeal through separate pieces of legislation?

Pat Snyder:
I think we can do it through the separate pieces of legislation. But I think we really need to get the stakeholders who are working with the homeless community involved and not try to think as legislators we know all the answers. We need the experts that are in the trenches to give us recommendations so we can form legislature that will have the biggest impact and be able to get these individuals productive and feeling good about themselves and becoming great citizens for Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Representative Snyder from Wausau, thank you.

Pat Snyder:
Thank you, Zac. It’s been a pleasure.

Zac Schultz:
Governor Evers’ budget proposals would provide the University of Wisconsin System with an extra $95 million in additional funding along with maintaining Governor Walker’s instate tuition freeze. We’re joined now by UW System President Ray Cross. Thanks for your time today.

Ray Cross:
Thanks Zac. Nice to be here.

Zac Schultz:
That’s a nice investment in the UW System. Do you think Republicans in the legislature will support all of that?

Ray Cross:
Well, I do know that the Republicans in the legislature along with Governor Evers share the priorities that we all have and that is to actually improve graduation rates and develop the talent pipeline, but also improving the lives of Wisconsinites and improving the wages and earnings of the people that live in Wisconsin. We share those goals. So I’m excited about this. I think that the initial reaction in the legislature has been positive. They share the same priorities.

Zac Schultz:
Now, the tuition freeze has become connected to politics, almost similar to raising taxes. You don’t want to raise the tuition. But at some point, won’t it become necessary or appropriate to raise instate tuition to fund the university?

Ray Cross:
Well obviously, that’s not — you can’t sustain that. Obviously that’s true. However, the investment that’s being proposed is ultimately providing us with the kind of support we need. We are very — obviously very sensitive about access and issues of affordability and that’s important, particularly now. And so with the state’s increased investment to offset the tuition freeze, that’s appealing to us. It’s the investment in higher ed that’s important.

Zac Schultz:
Now, with the capital budget nearly a billion dollars, some for renovation, some for new buildings. We’ve heard some chancellors around the state say they’re struggling to keep up — to find new enrollees, why do we need to keep pouring money into buildings?

Ray Cross:
Well first of all, there are no new buildings. There’s some replacements in here. But of the money that — we asked for — which is a sizable amount, we asked for $1.9 billion. $1.8 of that is to repair, to replace and to renovate facilities. Some of those facilities are 50, 60 years old. If you go in some of those buildings — if you go into a chemistry building, you can smell the chemical products down the hall. We need better ventilation systems. Some of those roofs leak. It’s dangerous and it’s getting very difficult to teach in some of those facilities. That’s what we’re dealing with.

Zac Schultz:
I should disclose that Wisconsin Public Television is under the University of Wisconsin System and we are UW employees.

Ray Cross:
And you just had a water problem here.

Zac Schultz:
In Vilas Hall, we did. Now over the last year, eight years of Republican control, the system has hired a number of former Republican staffers to improve liaisons and communications. Do you think that still important to have those people in place or with the change in leadership at the governor’s office, does that shift the dynamic?

Ray Cross:
Well, we’re obviously constantly seeking the most competent individuals and who can help us and how do we work with that. We’re trying to find balance. We have two outstanding people that work with the legislature now, one a Republican, one a Democrat. That balance is always going to be slightly out of kilter. But our goal is to find the people who most capable of helping others understand our story and why it’s important to invest in the university.

Zac Schultz:
There’s been a lot of turmoil in the system over the last year. The list. UW-Stevens Point faculty vote of no confidence in their chancellor. UW-Oshkosh Foundation scandal ends with bankruptcy and a lawsuit. The Whitewater chancellor resigned after her husband was accused of sexually harassing staff. And you reprimanded the UW-La Crosse chancellor over bringing a former porn actress on campus. Are these isolated incidents or is there a larger issue in the system?

Ray Cross:
Well they’re isolated incidents. First of all, with 39,000 employees you will have some of those issues no matter — just a big organization. Dealing with them properly and wisely is important. I think we’ve dealt with the Oshkosh situation well. I think we’ve dealt with the Whitewater situation well. The same is true with La Crosse. That’s going well. And I feel comfortable about the future of Stevens Point as well.

Zac Schultz:
Now, speaking about La Crosse specifically, Chancellor Joe Gow used a discretionary chancellor’s fund to pay for a former adult film actress to talk about sex education and porn with students. You said you have “a personal moral concerns and were deeply disappointed in this decision.” Whose moral values should guide whether to bring someone like that on campus?

Ray Cross:
I think if you read that more carefully Zac, I said “apart from my personal moral concerns.” I was more concerned about the process that the chancellor went about in order to do that. Certainly inviting her to speak was his prerogative. But the campus prerogative, I wanted greater involvement with the community. And if you recall that situation, the discussion was principally from him. And my counsel was, “Hey, there’s a process for bringing controversial speakers to campus. You should be using that.”

Zac Schultz:
Is there a danger of a chilling effect, of other people worrying about what you may thinking about a speaker, or should they know when you need to be informed?

Ray Cross:
Well, the process that is in place on campuses to bring speakers to campus usually involves students or faculty or particular administrative staff, and that process seemed to be circumvented in this case. This is an issue I think that is rightly, should be discussed on campus. But to do it in a wise way and involve as many people as possible is the intent.

Zac Schultz:
And the larger issue, the way it looks. We has a UW regent talk about this — a porn actress is not the hill to die on. Who — what audience are we worried about? Is it the legislature? Is it the general public and their support for the university?

Ray Cross:
Well, I’m worried about the students. And this issue is important. It’s a problem in our society. How do we deal with it wisely and from an academic perspective, how do we best handle it. And that’s the process that I’m concerned about.

Zac Schultz:
And going forward, are you confident that all the chancellors understand that, that it’s been made clear to them?

Ray Cross:
Oh, yeah. They do. That’s correct, Zac.

Zac Schultz:
And as far as the system as a whole going forward, the health of the systems in place?

Ray Cross:
I think so. The health of the system, I believe that regardless of the party or the issue, people are recognizing the value and importance of educating a workforce that is talented and ready to contribute in this environment. We badly need that in Wisconsin. Of course, we badly need it everywhere. But it’s more acute here given our demographic challenges.

Zac Schultz:
All right. UW System President Ray Cross, thank you for your time.

Ray Cross:
Thanks Zac.

Zac Schultz:
That is all for tonight’s program. Frederica Freyberg will be back next Friday. I’m Zac Schultz. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.