Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” budget battles at the state capitol this week. We’ll talk with two members of the Joint Finance Committee in just a moment. After that, a closer look at the effect President Donald Trump’s proposed Mexican tariff could have on Wisconsin. It’s “Here & Now” for June 7.

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Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at state budget action at the Capitol, where late in the week, the Joint Finance Committee took up transportation funding. Days earlier, Republicans on the budget committee passed their version of the Medicaid spending plan. Under that plan, Republicans would add $588 million in state funds for the healthcare and other related programs. About $187 million less than what Governor Tony Evers called for. It would increase state funding to hospitals that serve low income Wisconsinites by $60 million, increase nursing home funding by $30 million, funding for personal care workers by $37 million, and funding to counties for children and families by a little more than $30 million. Now the divide between Republicans and Democrats focuses on expanding Medicaid to more than 80,000 low income people in Wisconsin as Governor Tony Evers had proposed in his budget plan.

Chris Taylor:

The governor is committed to a budget for the people. That is his top priority, that is our top priority. We will not stop fighting for Medicaid expansion for the people of this state. But it looks like my Republican colleagues rather spend more money and cover less people.

Alberta Darling:

The governor will say it’s the people’s budget but I will say this is a budget that we really listen to the people and they told us we need to save our nursing homes. We need to invest in our personal care workers and we need to make those priority investments.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Legislature’s budget writing committee took up transportation funding last night, where the committee voted in favor of $484 million in new funding, including a $10 hike in the vehicle registration fee, bringing that to $85 a year, and a $95 increase in the vehicle title fee, bringing that cost to $164.50. The committee also voted to spend $2.5 million for a study on tolling. Governor Evers had proposed an 8-cent a gallon gas tax and a heavy truck fee to raise about $200 million more than the plan passed out of Joint Finance last night. The gas tax and the truck fee were rejected.

Evan Goyke:

Right now we’re on a Democratic plan which is responsible, sustainable. We’re going to debate a Republican plan that relies more heavily on fees and one-time, non-long term solutions.

Luther Olsen:

Cars are more efficient so they’re not burning as much gas. So they’re not paying as much gas tax. So we thought we would help you not be the problem. We are raising your license fee and your transfer fee because we know you want to be part of the solution.

Frederica Freyberg:

Following this week’s action, the Republican co-chair of the Legislature’s budget writing committee was able to meet with us at the capitol. We sat down with Representative John Nygren at his office and started by asking about the Republican transportation budget. All right. First of all, thanks very much for doing this.

John Nygren:

Welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the transportation budget, those title fees, ouch. What do you say to people of Wisconsin about that?

John Nygren:

Well, it’s a $95 increase but the average person in Wisconsin has a new car for an average of six years, and that actually averages out between $15 and $16 a year. Actually the gas tax increase as proposed would be well over that. In many cases more than double that. And the other thing that, you know, I think from our perspective, the built-in indexing of a gas tax, you know, I wasn’t here when they removed indexing of gas tax, but I guess my perspective is, if you’re elected to lead and make tough decisions and fund our priorities such as transportation, you should actually have to stand up and say yea or nay rather than having it automatically built in moving forward so we think this is a fair way.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the argument that a gas tax hits every driver on the roads whereas these fee increases hit just Wisconsin residents?

John Nygren:

You know, I think that’s a fair argument. One of the things — the way we look at this proposal is more of a bridge to a future opportunity for us. The study which had been ridiculed as having another study on this, but actually what the study says is we’re actually asking for the Department of Transportation to develop a mileage-based system. That could be vehicle miles traveled, that could be tolling, that could be a number of different things to get to a point where — I’ve got an I-pass for Illinois, so when I use those roads in Illinois, I’m paying. So I think long term, our objective is to get to more of a mileage-based system.

Frederica Freyberg:

That is pretty long term, though, right, because any kind of study is just the beginning and then that process of potentially, you know, doing tolling would take years, wouldn’t it?

John Nygren:

Well, first of all, the study we’re asking for I think by 2023 for them to come back with a recommendation. If we actually go to tolling or, like I said, vehicle miles traveled, which many states are doing, this is not the old system where you’re building toll booths, et cetera. If it’s vehicle miles traveled, it doesn’t even need anything like that. Tolling doesn’t need that now days, with transponders and other technology, it can actually be implemented much quicker than people think.

Frederica Freyberg:

Aren’t increases in fees taxes by another name?

John Nygren:

You know, it’s semantics to a certain extent. We look at it whether it be a gas tax or whether it be a fee, it’s a user fee to use the roads. And one of the things we’ve heard loud and clear over the years, we’ve been working on this — I’ve been working on this for eight years to try to get a solution, Democrats have been supportive of a transportation solution as well, locals, you know, communities throughout the state, citizens, we’ve heard their voices so we think we’re heading in the right direction. We’re investing in the priorities of the people of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

One thing I saw was that you cut annual fees on heavy vehicles, whereas the governor’s budget hiked them.

John Nygren:

Actually it’s not heavy. The governor proposed a fee on heavy trucks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Yes.

John Nygren:

We actually had one of the high — meaning semis. We actually have, I think I asked Fiscal Bureau this question — if not the highest in the nation, definitely the highest in the Midwest, and actually for semis. The interesting thing about semis — I travel throughout the country — you actually can register those in different states. So if you significantly increase a fee, you’re basically losing those revenues to another state. The confusion you’re talking about is we have three different classifications of what I would call “middle of the road trucks”: pickup trucks, SUVs, et cetera. I actually have one. If there’s a, b and c, and we actually just shrunk those into one class, because there’s been a lot of confusion about registration of those vehicles.

Frederica Freyberg:

Some Senate Republicans are voicing opposition as you know to this transportation package. Will this pass in the Senate?

John Nygren:

You know, I worry about the 63 Republican members in the Assembly. Senator Fitzgerald takes care of the Senate. I do believe that — I think when we look at the budget as a total package, we’ve invested in our priorities. We’re definitely going to be way less than Governor Evers in spending. He was at 8.3%. He was raising taxes both on property and income. We’re actually going to be looking to do a middle class tax cut again. So at the end of the day, I think we’ll have support to be able to pass this in both houses.

Frederica Freyberg:

On Medicaid, the other big kind of budget action this week, why are you exposed to the expansion that saves some $300 million in state money and brings in more than a billion dollars in federal money?

John Nygren:

First of all, there’s no such thing as free money. Whether it’s — if it’s federal money or state tax money, it’s actually taxpayer money, but where we are as a state, our economy is doing very well. Actually our biggest weakness in the state is probably a shortage of workers. At a time like this, there’s no need to expand welfare. That’s what this program is, you know, between 100 and 138% of poverty. Those folks already have access. Governor Evers has said its 82,000. It’s 82,000, half of them already have coverage on the exchange for as low as pennies on the dollar. The other half are eligible. So we did provide resources to be able to connect people to that exchange, help them get insurance, but we also use the surplus out of the Medicaid budget to reinvest in the things we’ve heard about the most, nursing homes closing throughout the state, personal care workers, family care. We actually in all those cases outdid Governor Evers’ investments with the surplus.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Evers says this should be the easiest decision in the budget, that being expanding Medicaid, and he continues to fight for it. What do you say to him?

John Nygren:

He often times touts polls, right. The Marquette Poll, 70%. Actually Senate Republicans actually asked all of our constituents the same question but we asked it a little bit differently. We asked about expanding welfare. Some people cringe at that, but Medicaid was designed as a welfare program for the impoverished, and at 100% of poverty, that’s what it is. So we asked that question. My overwhelmingly — the overwhelming results were about 80% were in favor — er, against expansion.

Frederica Freyberg:

What are your veto concerns, if any?

John Nygren:

We’ve been very careful. We’ve been very careful about any type of statutory language that we put in, into the budget because of those concerns. A new world for us. Governor Evers, I guess, has threatened to veto the budget in its totality but when you look at we’re funding our priorities for Medicaid for those that have a hard time taking care of themselves. We actually provide another sizable increase for K-12 education. We’re solving the transportation problem throughout our state. When we look at it in totality, I think he’s going to have a hard time saying no.

Frederica Freyberg:

John Nygren, thanks very much.

John Nygren:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Votes on the budget committee fall mostly along party lines with the exception of one Republican senator voting last night against the transportation budget plan. Democrats hold the minority on Joint Finance. That’s not to say they aren’t fighting for the governor’s budget proposals. Milwaukee Democrat Senator LaTonya Johnson among them. She joins us now from Milwaukee. Thanks very much for being here.

LaTonya Johnson:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the transportation budget comings out of Joint Finance, what is your response of the 137% hike in vehicle titling fees making it $164.50?

LaTonya Johnson:

It’s unfortunate, and it’s unfair. You know, making sure that we have good roads is a priority, but just taxing Wisconsinites for those roads is extremely unfair. The governor’s 8 cents gas tax would spread those costs proportionately, not only to individuals in Wisconsin but also those individuals who live out of state but continue to use our roads. And it makes it proportionate. If you do more driving, you’ll pay more for gas. If you don’t drive as much, then the cost isn’t as much for you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now Co-chair Nygren points out that the titling fee is not an annual one so it gets spread out and only accrues when someone purchases a vehicle, whereas the gas tax would hit the consumer every time they fill up. Does that soften that increase?

LaTonya Johnson:

No, it doesn’t, because regardless of the cost of the car, regardless if you bought a $1,500 car or a $65,000 car, the title transfer and cost is still the same, $164.50. And for those individuals who are living on a fixed income or maybe low income, that hurts. That’s a significant rise in cost.

Frederica Freyberg:

We want to just point out and apologize here, there’s a little bit of breakup on our shot to you there in Milwaukee, but we will proceed. Do Democrats feel the transportation package from the majority will allow for reliable funding needed to fix and maintain our roads and highways?

LaTonya Johnson:

No, it’s not sustainable funding. Governor Evers’ transportation budget was sustainable, and this is not. And evidence of that is that they have a mileage study that’s written into budget with $2.5 million set aside for study so they can find more reliable sources. And so I think that that’s unfair to increase those title fees that significantly and still not have a sustainable source.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for that study, do Democrats approve or like the idea of tolling?

LaTonya Johnson:

The problem with the tolling is that we need money right now. Even if we were to look into the tolling process, that would be at least five years down the road. We would have to get federal permission to install the tolls, and so as far as having a state-wide toll source, that would be a significant problem as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the Medicaid programs, the action on the part of Republicans on Joint Finance, it’s not new that they were dead set against the expansion of Medicaid but how do you regard their plan to put $588 million of GPR into the Medicaid program?

LaTonya Johnson:

I think it’s unfortunate because expanding Medicaid brings $1.6 billion, new dollars, into the state, and it saves the state $324 million. This is money that our taxpayers have already paid in federal taxes, and 36 states have decided to expand Medicaid.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now I know that Democrats say statewide polls show 70% of respondents favor expanding Medicaid, but the Republican co-chair says that when asked if they want to expand welfare, 80% in his district of the respondents said no. How do you respond to that?

LaTonya Johnson:

Well, it’s unfortunate because the way that BadgerCare is set up, if you are a single individual with one child and you earn $8.15 an hour, that makes you ineligible for BadgerCare. So we are talking about people who earn pennies on a dollar. One way to make sure that individuals don’t qualify for welfare is to raise the minimum wage. But my Republican colleagues fail to do that as well. But to see this as a welfare program, it’s not. These are individuals who have jobs, but are not earning enough to afford the prices on the private market exchange. We have 230,000 individuals in this state that are uninsured, and to feel that $8.15 is enough to purchase insurance on the private market, I just don’t understand that sentiment.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there, Senator la Tonya Johnson, thanks very much for joining us.

LaTonya Johnson:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now to the thorny federal issue of tariffs and immigration. President Donald Trump has set Monday for the day a 5% tariff on imported goods from Mexico will take effect. The president wants to use the tariffs to push Mexico to stop people from coming to the U.S. from that country’s southern border. The tariffs could increase by 5% each month until hitting 25% on October 1st. As that move royals Congress, the House of Representatives voted to approve the so-called American Dream and Promise Act. Under that measure, 2.5 million dreamers and immigrants eligible for temporary protected status would be eligible for a path to citizenship. That includes nearly 19,000 immigrants in Wisconsin, according to the Center for American Progress. In tonight’s “closer look,” we check in with Second District Democrat U.S. Representative Mark Pocan, who voted in favor of the Dreamers and Promise Act. Thanks very much for being here.

Mark Pocan:

Yeah, thank you. Glad to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

First to the tariffs, what is your position on the tariffs of goods imported from Mexico?

Mark Pocan:

Yeah, it’s not just the goods imported from Mexico, which is a bad idea. It’s all the tariffs that we’re throwing out there, much like spaghetti against a wall, hoping that it sticks and does something. The president really doesn’t have a trade policy. I think when he ran in Wisconsin, he talked about bringing American jobs back. That resonated with a lot of people who’ve lost manufacturing jobs, but he really doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he’s been dealing with trade. That’s why we don’t have a NAFTA 2.0. That’s why on the tariff issue, our farmers are really hurting in Wisconsin just from the existing tariffs. I’m not against tariffs. You can use a targeted tariff in an effective way to stop a country from dumping steel or something else, but the way that we’re doing it is completely haphazard. And I had a farmer recently come by, who has come by every year whose family has a long history of farming who’s talking about maybe selling the farm. And when people have talked about how the president has a package to provide some relief for farmers based on the tariffs, this farmer told me on soybeans, it’s about 50 cents on the dollar, on dairy, it’s about 2 cents on the dollar and for corn grower, it’s about 1 cent on the dollar. That’s not getting you anywhere close to keeping a family farm a family farm. So the tariffs right now are really hurting Wisconsin farmers and we’ve got to have a change in the president’s policy.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the tariffs with Mexico, Wisconsin imported nearly $3 billion in goods from Mexico last year, so how might a 5% or a 25% tariff then affect people in Wisconsin?

Mark Pocan:

It will be a mess. I mean, first of all, we already have a problem with trucks bringing some goods in to Wisconsin businesses that are talking about laying off staff because they can’t produce goods in Wisconsin because they’re not getting some of the product that they need to assemble from Mexico. And if you keep doing this, of course it’s going to be price increases to people in Wisconsin, but also it’s going to have that other ripple effect where you’re going to see people actually working in Wisconsin not being able to work because goods are going to cost more or take longer to get here and a there’s no reason. The president has absolutely no policy reason/proof that this will work in any way other than he feels like it’s a way to try to pressure the Mexicans on the border. When last time I looked, the surge that we have at the border is from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, not Mexico. So once again, the president is shooting at a target here when the rest of the American people are busy worrying about what’s here.

Frederica Freyberg:

On that, let’s take a listen to what U.S. Senator Republican Ron Johnson says about the flow of immigrants coming through Mexico.

Mark Pocan:

I completely understand President Trump’s frustration with Congress not acting to solve this problem, and quite honestly with Mexico not doing enough to help solve the problem as well. I met with the Mexican ambassador and foreign minister and in that meeting asked them to move toward enacting a third safe country agreement with America which would help deter that flow of people from central America taking a very dangerous journey into America. This is completely out of control. We’re already up to 400,000 unaccompanied children, mostly people coming in as a family unit primarily one adult, one child, in just the first eight months of this fiscal year. If we maintain May’s rate, it will be 800,000 by the end of September. So that compares with 120,000 in 2014. So this is a crisis that is growing.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what do you know about the Mexican government’s potential to curtail immigrants coming to the U.S. because of these tariffs and could they be doing more?

Mark Pocan:

I think that’s the wrong question that the president is trying to put out there. The real question is, my first term in Congress, there was a bill that came through the Senate that would have been a comprehensive immigration reform. It got nearly 70 votes in a very bipartisan manner that would have dealt with aspiring Americans as well as deal with protections at the borders. But this president refuses to ever take anything like that up. All he wants to do is build a wall because that goes well when he goes to his rallies around the country. But the reality is, he’s taking away funding from the countries where people are coming so we could stop the violence there so that people wouldn’t leave those countries. The last 10 years we’ve had a net migration outside the United States but the spike we have right now is because the president is talking about building a border, people are like, well, we’d better hurry up and get here to address dealing with the violence in those countries. So everything the president has done has been wrong-headed in this area and quite honestly, Ron Johnson is just wrong His Senate did a very responsible thing with nearly 70 votes my very first term. We should be doing comprehensive immigration reform instead of trying to piecemeal a wall or take kids who have been here legally through the DACA program and punish them. Everything about this issue has been done wrong by this administration.

Frederica Freyberg:

One more clip from Senator Johnson about the tariffs with Mexico, and there seems to be opposition among Republican Senators. Let’s listen to what he says.

Mark Pocan:

I’m not a fan of tariffs. The president is fully aware of that. He’s using tariffs, is what he says, for leverage. If we can use a tariff as a leverage to get Mexico to enact a third safe country agreement, that would be a good thing. I do not want to see these tariffs imposed. Tariffs are a tax on consumers, I’m painfully aware of that as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

So there you have it, his persuasion on tariffs. Another matter related, the House this week as we said, passed the Dream and Promise Act. Wisconsin according to statistics is home to nearly 19,000 immigrants who would be eligible for this path to permanent citizenship. Why in your mind is this important now?

Mark Pocan:

it’s important because we’ve had a lot of people right here in Wisconsin, as you mentioned probably about 19,000 people according to the Center for American Progress that are here, who may have come at two weeks or two months old, may not speak the language of the country they came from, and we had protections through the DACA program for a very long time and some other efforts and yet the president kind of took that and broke it. And no one asked for it in Congress. That’s the thing. It’s not like this has been a problem, but he created a new problem in trying to get money for the border wall. We decide we needed to fix this but really fix this, not just the temporary fix that President Obama had in place but actually figure out how to do this. So if you work here, go to school here, serve in the military, that can help provide you that path to citizenship. But I also want to add one thing on the last part. Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners. It is an ally. The way we’re treating Mexico when that’s not where people are coming from is wrong-headed on this and again, it’s going to impact consumers in Wisconsin, continue to impact farmers in Wisconsin, and other businesses in Wisconsin. I talked to someone in Sauk County and their trucks, again, that they need to get to have supplies that they’re going to assemble and put together and create the jobs for people working in Sauk County, they can’t do because the president won’t put money towards letting the trucks come through because he’s trying to make a point again about the border wall. Everything that we’re doing in this area is so wrong-headed that it’s very difficult. Let’s not even forget the family separation policy and all the rest that we’re dealing with. This is an area where really the president has been very stubborn-headed around wanting to find money for the wall no matter what and because of this, we have this ripple effect, whether it be the tariffs, whether it be treating people who are in the DACA program who are here to provide that pathway to citizenship. We need to do a lot more than what this administration has been doing.

Frederica Freyberg:

A lot more to talk about. Representative Mark Pocan, thanks very much.

Mark Pocan:

Sure, thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

The month of June is designated at LGBTQ Pride month in the state and a group of Wisconsin legislators is rolling out what they call their equality agenda. The legislation would ban discrimination based on gender identity and make certain language in state statute gender-neutral. Included in the proposal is a Constitutional amendment to eliminate the state’s ban on gay marriage, which was left unenforceable by the U.S. Supreme Court. The bills are being circulated for co-sponsorship with some bipartisan backing. And today, Governor Evers ordered rainbow flags to be flown at the state Capitol.

Before we leave you tonight, we want to call your attention to an historical gathering at the state Capitol scheduled next week. Wisconsin was the first state to ratify the 19th Amendment which gave women the right to vote. On Monday, the 100th anniversary of women’s suffrage will be celebrated at the Capitol. The event gets underway at noon and includes remarks from Wisconsin First Lady Kathy Evers, former Lieutenant Governor Rebecca Kleefisch, and Supreme Court Justice Ann Walsh Bradley. The original 19th Amendment document will also be on view. The free event starts at noon.

That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided in part by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.