Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Haylie Schmidt:

The town is so small that it’s almost like a big neighborhood, if that makes sense.

Frederica Freyberg:

We hear from young people living in Jackson County about what it’s like growing up in rural Wisconsin and what their plans are to stay or go. The Progress Pride Flag flies at the state Capitol in honor of Gay Pride Month. And school safety is front of mind in the aftermath of the latest deadly mass shooting of children in Texas.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” the experience of frequent active shooter drills in classrooms across Wisconsin. We speak with a former teacher now with the state Department of Public Instruction. The new president of the UW System started this week. We sit down with Jay Rothman to hear his vision for the future. We bring you the first of two special reports from Zac Schultz, who talks with young people growing up in rural Wisconsin who are deciding whether to stay or go. And for June, Gay Pride Month, a special flag flies over the state Capitol. It’s “Here & Now” for June 3.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin law requires schools to conduct at least one school violence drill every year. Otherwise known as active shooter drills, some schools conduct them several times a year. What is that like for students and staff already so on edge and fearful in the direct aftermath of mass school shootings like the one in Texas or Sandy Hook, Connecticut? Our next guest wrote an op-ed detailing shooter drills and the sad reality that we need them. Abigail Swetz is a former teacher and current communications director at the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction. She joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Abigail Swetz:

Thank you for inviting me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you describe active shooter drills as feeling terrifying. How so?

Abigail Swetz:

I think what we have to keep in mind is that students who are experiencing an active shooter drill are literally experiencing the behavior they would have to do in the face of a terrorist attack, because that is what an active shooter situation is. And so of course they’re terrifying. That’s exactly the expected response to that kind of situation. And I understand that these drills are designed to make sure that our behavior can be safe, but they’re also traumatizing in and of themselves. I think back to sometimes the active shooter drills are very difficult to supervise. They are tense situations. The lights are off. We’re in a corner. It is a very terrifying situation, and I think through the times in my classroom when it seemed like they weren’t going well, when students were potentially being disruptive, moving too much, talking when they weren’t supposed to be talking, and I remember processing that with them afterwards. Why was that happening, how can we make sure our behavior looks different going forward? The thing was, they explained to me and Im really glad they did and that I listened. It wasn’t because they were trying to be disruptive. They weren’t being disrespectful. They were scared. And none of us are our best selves when they’re scared. Not to mention that I taught eighth grade, they were 13. That’s such a difficult situation to put someone in. And I think we really need to keep that in mind and continue listening to our children as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how exactly do these drills go? I mean, you talked about the lights being off and kind of in a corner. What else is happening?

Abigail Swetz:

So I think one of the things that people need to know about active shooter drills is that the protocols are, of course, designed to try and keep us safe in a very unsafe situation, which means that limits are sort of tested throughout the drill. So for example, at my school, one of the things that would happen is turn off the lights, lock the doors, put paper over the windows, because there was a window in the door, and then after that door is locked and we are out of sight of it, other staff come around and knock on the door and ask to be let in. And we are told, per protocol because it is what is expected to keep us safe, that we cannot let them in. So that means that my 13-year-old students are hearing a security guard or a school social worker outside the door, asking, pleading to be let in because that is what the drill requires them to do, and that person, they have a relationship with, they know we have to say no. They know we can’t do anything. Because in the horrific situation that this was real, that could be a test of the shooter. And so that’s one of the things that we have to deal with.

Frederica Freyberg:

On top of that, what is it like to practice how to respond to an active shooter in the direct aftermath of a mass shooting?

Abigail Swetz:

It’s such an important question because there are repeated mass shootings, right? Like, there’s very few times when you do a drill for active shooter drills that it’s not in the aftermath of a mass shooting, because they are repeated in our country so often. And the example I just gave about it being a difficult experience when students were moving too much and talking and there was noise and it felt like they were being disrespectful, but it turns out they were just terrified, that was an active shooter drill we did two weeks after Sandy Hook, and it was the same classroom that I had, I was currently teaching when I found out about Sandy Hook. And I had to make the decision in the middle of that afternoon class, do I tell them that Sandy Hook is happening? Do I tell them in a space where they’re able to at least talk to each other, talk to me, be in community together, or do I not tell them because it feels unsafe to tell them because it is emotionally difficult, but then they go home and turn on the TV or look at their social media and learn that way? That’s a decision I had to make, and I think back about that decision a lot. Did I decide the right way? I did tell them. I told them because I remembered back when I was in middle school, I found out about the Oklahoma City bombing after school going home and turning on my TV in an empty house, and that is burned in my memory and I didn’t want that to happen for them. I wanted to give them the space to talk. And we talked, but we couldn’t find a solution because we can’t solve this as students and as teachers.

Frederica Freyberg:

What have children told you about how they feel growing up like this?

Abigail Swetz:

I think a lot about two conversations Ive had with students before in my class. When I talk about something being burned in my memory, these are two conversations that are that, and one of them was with a student who, not after a drill, and not even after a mass shooting, just mentioned to me, you know Ms. Swetz, I always know where the exit is. I always know that I don’t have my back to the classroom door because I don’t think of a school shooting as an if, I think of it as a when. That means that we are training our children to have hypervigilance, and hypervigilance is a trauma response. So that’s the situation that they’re existing in. And the other thing that comes to mind is, I taught English and history and so we did a lot of writing as part of our processing together about a lot of things. About happy things and about things like active shooter situations, and I had a student write something once. He was writing a poem and the last line, it was about a school shooting, and it was a letter to his classmates, and the last line was something along the lines of, “Don’t worry, at least we’ll die quickly.” And that was in his brain, right? I didn’t ask him to write about that. He decided to take that step to write about it and it’s just something Ill never forget.

Frederica Freyberg:

It is unforgettable. Abby Swetz, thanks very much for joining us.

Abigail Swetz:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

The leader of the UW System stepped into his new job this week. System President Jay Rothman will lead 13 universities across 26 campuses and a statewide extension network. He comes from the law firm Foley & Lardner, where he was CEO. He succeeds Tommy Thompson as the eighth president of the UW System. We should note, PBS Wisconsin is part of UW-Madison. We sat down with Rothman late this week and started by asking his priorities.

Jay Rothman:

When you think about 36,000 graduates coming out of the university every year and the impact that they are having, that focus on students is really critical. You know, the second one is looking at affordability. I’ve asked our data analytics team to review affordability from two different perspectives. One is from the perspective of how do we compare with peer institutions, and then secondly, how do we compare relative to any one prospective student’s individual economic needs? Because it is important that we keep affordability in mind, and you’ll see these objectives kind of tie into each other, but one of the great things we’ll be doing next week, we’ll be presenting a budget to the Board of Regents, the annual budget, and I will be recommending in that budget a tuition freeze for in-state undergraduate students for the coming school year, that focus on affordability. Certainly that has been facilitated in part by Governor Evers directed some money to the UW System for that purpose, and Im grateful for that money because I think it helps us focus on that affordability piece for the upcoming school year. The third is to build relationships among the various stakeholders in the system, whether that be the legislature, the administration, shared governance, but particularly focused on — and I should mention students in that as well, because they are really an important constituency and stakeholder in this, but focus with some particularity on the business community and really asking the business community, what more can the system do to help you? What can we be doing, whether that is the demand for engineers or the demand for nurses, or re-skilling and upskilling of adult learners, that lifelong learning continuum that I think is going to be more and more prevalent in our society going forward. All of that is absolutely critical to the vibrancy of the state of Wisconsin. We want employers to be able to find the talent here so that they can grow here and not feel that they have to grow somewhere else. I want to build those relationships with the business community. And last is a focus on diversity, equity and inclusion. And I break that down into a variety of different buckets. One is dealing with prospective students from underrepresented groups. And making sure that there is a path forward for them. Affordability is a big piece of that. Student focus is a big piece of that. But we also have to make sure that they feel that they belong. And they are part of the university community. Whatever of the 13 universities they happen to be or whatever campus they happen to be on, that is particularly important and a driving force, and we also have to support them in their journey, because it is unconscionable to me to say, well, we recruit them and then they’re on their own. That’s not fair. They have to be supported along the way and we have to have the resources to help them so that they can succeed. That’s absolutely critical. And it’s not just racial and ethnic diversity. It’s also socioeconomic diversity. So that we touch all parts of the state, because that’s what’s going to make the state stronger and better. So that’s the student piece. And then you think about the faculty and staff, and then you think about the leadership of the universities and of the system itself, but that we are focused, and diversity, equity and inclusion becomes not something that’s set off to the side but it is part and parcel of every decision we make going forward. So those are the four priorities that I have set for my initial — for the start of my tenure.

Frederica Freyberg:

Outgoing UW Madison Chancellor Rebecca Blank said, before she left, that political polarization in Wisconsin is the greatest existential threat to at least the flagship university, in her mind. What is your response to that?

Jay Rothman:

I think, you know, Chancellor Blank did extraordinary things for UW-Madison. I have great respect for her. I think we need to focus in, and when we talk about the political polarization, I take one step back from that and say, I have to believe that we all want what is in the best interest of the state of Wisconsin. We may have different views about how we get there, but let’s start with that basic premise, that everyone sitting in the legislature, everyone sitting in the administration, our citizenry, our residents want what is best for the state of Wisconsin. If we start that as our North Star, that’s what we ought to be focused on. That’s what we want to focus on. Then we can have constructive conversation about how we get there. And that’s what we plan to do. And I would take it one step further than that, because I think when you think of — yes, is there polarization in the political environment these days? Yes, I don’t think that’s undeniable. But, what can universities do to help with that? And we talk about freedom of expression and civil dialogue. The universities have always been and need to continue to be that place where the marketplace of ideas is discussed. Without someone being tainted or labeled by their perspectives, that ideas, concepts can be discussed in an open, free and frank manner, regardless of which your political philosophy happens to be. The universities can be great examples of how we can forward that discussion going forward. We’re working on some things around civil dialogue and freedom of expression at the system right now that we can help to support the universities that are already focused on this. They’re doing a good job. How can we do a better job to discuss issues that are critical, that are hard, that are nuanced, that are sophisticated, not subject to soundbite, not subject to tweet, but require deep thought. Because a lot of things happen in that. One learns how to think critically. One learns how to think analytically. One’s views evolve as you hear different viewpoints batted back and forth. That’s important. And our students are really, really smart. They’ll be able to sift and winnow what they’re hearing and make up their own minds and that’s what a university experience ought to be.

Frederica Freyberg:

The full-length interview with Jay Rothman can be found online at PBSwisconsin.org.

Now we turn to a reporting project funded in part by the Otto Bremer Trust, where we’ve been working to examine a mix of rural issues. As part of this project, we’ve gotten help from the students from the PBS NewsHour Student Reporting Lab at Black River Falls High School. One of the issues we’ve been investigating is the population decline in Wisconsins rural counties. In this report, we caught up with five high school students in Jackson County and talked with them about what it’s like to be young and living in rural Wisconsin.

Nana:

This is the first year we get to pick our name.

Haylie Schmidt:

Yeah, this was —

Zac Schultz:

When Haylie Schmidt was growing up, softball was everything.

Nana:

She’s just so confident. I don’t know if that’s because of what we did or if just that’s the way she’s made.

Zac Schultz:

Winter in Black River Falls is long, so her nana’s basement doubled as a practice field. Just as her nana doubled as a coach.

Haylie Schmidt:

She showed me what it’s like to be, like, dedicated to something. I found that passion because of her.

Zac Schultz:

Haylies connection to Nana is more than just sports.

Haylie Schmidt:

When I was really young, I lived with my Nana and my papa because my mom and dad both were alcoholics and drug addicts. So I could not live there.

Zac Schultz:

When her mom stopped using substances, Haylie lived with her at Eau Claire and found the schools overwhelming.

Haylie Schmidt:

You pass people in the halls and you’re like, I don’t even know who you are.

Zac Schultz:

Around the time her mom started using drugs again, her dad was in recovery.

Haylie Schmidt:

After that, I moved back down here with my dad. He’s seven years sober now, eight this year.

Student:

Good morning, Tigers! It’s Thursday, February 3rd and we have a senate meeting this morning.

Zac Schultz:

There are only 500 kids in the whole high school.

Haylie Schmidt:

Now that Im in high school here, I would never wish to go anywhere bigger, because I pass everyone in the halls. I know everyone.

Zac Schultz:

The city of Black River Falls has about 3500 people, and Haylie says the familiarity is comforting.

Haylie Schmidt:

This town is so small that it’s almost like a big neighborhood, if that makes sense.

Paige Blackdeer:

I have not lived this far north before, and I don’t think Ive been this cold before.

Zac Schultz:

Paige Blackdeer moved to Black River Falls seven years ago from Arizona.

Paige Blackdeer:

Did you get natural log of 10 minus natural log of 9?

Zac Schultz:

Paige says making friends at school was easy but after living in a big city, there was no adjusting to small town life.

Paige Blackdeer:

I still don’t think Ive really got used to that, because I never fully committed to living in this town, because even though I technically live here, we go to Onalaska or like anywhere multiple times a week.

Zac Schultz:

She was surprised at how many students had never traveled, and how closed-minded people could be.

Paige Blackdeer:

Even if you’re not given the opportunity to go somewhere, no one is stopping you from learning. Like we have the internet, we have books. Nothing is stopping you except for your own mindset and beliefs.

Zac Schultz:

One of the reasons Paiges family moved to Black River Falls is her dad is Ho-Chunk and got a job with the nation. But she says there’s a disconnect with that part of her heritage.

Paige Blackdeer:

I fit in with who I want to fit in with but Ive never — like, Im not fully white but Im not fully Ho-Chunk either. I don’t fully partake in everything like a typical white person would but I also don’t take place in every like traditional Ho-Chunk thing.

Zac Schultz:

She’s managed to fit in, even if the fit is only temporary.

Paige Blackdeer:

Ive definitely warmed up to it. So I do like it here, but aside from that, Im ready to go.

Jacob Ward:

Pull! I don’t like the town. I don’t like towns.

Zac Schultz:

There’s no disconnect with Jacob Ward. He grew up country. And wouldn’t have it any other way.

Jacob Ward:

The air is different. Like I get out of my truck at school and the air is just different. I mean, out here, it’s just nice and breezy, where in town, you can smell stuff.

Zac Schultz:

Jacob couldn’t imagine not being able to shoot trap off the back deck. Or ride his snowmobile to school in winter.

Jacob Ward:

People in the city can’t really ride their snowmobile to school every day. Where when I have enough snow and I’m able to, I do.

Zac Schultz:

Jacob has no problem making friends with kids from the city.

Jacob Ward:

I have a lot of friends that live in town. I mean, we all get along the same. We all kind of have the same beliefs, all that type of stuff.

Zac Schultz:

He says white students and Ho-Chunk students get along fine.

Jacob Ward:

The natives, there’s the good and the bad obviously, just like everybody else. But they do a lot for the community.

Zac Schultz:

He doesn’t mind visiting big cities like Minneapolis and Chicago. Just don’t ask him to drive on the highways.

Jacob Ward:

Never again. Never again. There are too many people. Just too many things to worry about.

Lilli Wirtz:

I have always liked the idea of, like, a big city life.

Zac Schultz:

Lilli Wirtz is the youngest of four kids, and her older sister has shown her what awaits after graduation.

Lilli Wirtz:

She has always sent me videos of, like, her nice apartment and she’s got a view of the skyline. Im like, oh, that just seems so nice.

Zac Schultz:

In some way, Lilli defines who she is by what she’s not. For example, she’s not country.

Lilli Wirtz:

Country kids, you know, like camo, like orange jackets, like, you know, all that stuff, like hunting. Those are always the kids that lived in the country.

Zac Schultz:

But living in town doesn’t really make her a city kid.

Lilli Wirtz:

City, again city but, yeah, I guess.

Zac Schultz:

Instead of getting a job at Kwik Trip or Wal-Mart, she called the owner of a downtown coffee shop and asked if she could come in after school and bake.

Lilli Wirtz:

Usually I have like 2 1/2 hours just in the kitchen alone. I can put my music on, just do whatever I want, and that’s — yeah, that’s probably the best part for me.

Zac Schultz:

Creating your own path can be liberating in a small town. But an independent streak can lead to isolation.

Lilli Wirtz:

Someone go out already. I’m bored. It’s very difficult to come in as an outsider if you know that people just aren’t always going to be like, welcoming.

Zac Schultz:

But that doesn’t mean Lilli wishes she went to a bigger school.

Lilli Wirtz:

I never actually wish for more people. I just wish for different people, you know, because the number of students was never the issue, it’s just that sometimes I didn’t mesh with people there.

Reese Cowley:

I think Black River is definitely a closed-minded town and, like, if there’s someone different from you, it’s kind of hard for you to accept that.

Zac Schultz:

Reese Cowley thought he was well liked and accepted in Black River Falls. Then he came out as gay.

Reese Cowley:

A lot of people also have been, like, taught that that’s not okay since they were, like, little, and that’s when they’re like, oh, well, this is what my family taught me so Im not going to be nice to them, Im not going to accept them.

Zac Schultz:

Reese has been attacked, verbally and physically.

Reese Cowley:

Every time you go in the hallway, you get some sort of comment or just, like, people making fun of, like, me online.

Zac Schultz:

He knows if he lived in a larger city, he likely wouldn’t be the first openly gay male his classmates had met. But he is. So he’s showing everyone that he’s just like any other student, playing sports, joining clubs, and just being a kid.

Reese Cowley:

I kind of put myself out there, get involved in a lot of different things just so that Im not — I mean, I still am looked at as the gay kid but I try to make myself more than just that.

Zac Schultz:

It’s working.

Reese Cowley:

I gained so much more confidence. I really just kind of like stopped — for a while I just acted like I didn’t care but then I realized I really don’t care what other people think.

Zac Schultz:

Reese just finished his freshman year, so he has plenty of time to ponder his future. But he already knows it won’t be in Black River Falls.

Reese Cowley:

Definitely want to live in a big city for the rest of my life. I just think cities at nighttime, Im a night owl, I think they’re really pretty at night.

Zac Schultz:

Reese isn’t alone. Paige Blackdeer will be heading to UW-Madison in the fall.

Paige Blackdeer:

I kind of just always knew that I wasn’t going to stay here. Like, I just got my acceptance letter from Madison, going to go to Madison in the fall. And I don’t really plan on coming back, like, no hate to the town, but this is not where I want to be for the rest of my life.

Zac Schultz:

Lilli Wirtz wants to study science in college and doesn’t see how that can lead her back to Black River Falls.

Lilli Wirtz:

I think that there is not a ton of opportunity here. We have like a tech college but we don’t have like actual businesses that can, like, hone on specific skills.

Zac Schultz:

Even Jacob Ward is ready to explore a different part of the country.

Jacob Ward:

Can’t wait to get out of here, really. It gets — it’s a lot of fun and everything but I kind of want to move on. I’ve been in school for 12 years now and kind of want to get on with life, get working type of thing like that.

Zac Schultz:

Haylie Schmidt has had those conversations with classmates.

Haylie Schmidt:

There’s definitely a few kids where they’re like, Im bigger than this small town, Im going to go out of here and Im like, you do that because Im probably not.

Zac Schultz:

But she knows the city is not as welcoming as it may seem.

Haylie Schmidt:

There’s definitely kids that want that adventure, I would call it, and I honestly think it might be because they’ve never lived in a bigger city. Like, Ive lived there, Ive done it, Im over it. So Im not going do it again.

Lilli Wirtz:

If you want young people to be here, you’re clearly not doing what you need to.

Zac Schultz:

Lilli says if the locals want rural communities to grow and for everyone to feel welcome, they should listen to why the kids don’t come back.

Lilli Wirtz:

A lot of the adults that live here have lived here, like, a majority of their lives, and I think that’s telling because most of the kids coming out of here get away as fast as they can.

Zac Schultz:

Reporting from Black River Falls, Im Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

Next week, Zac talks to young adults about why they decided to stay in Black River Falls, and what lessons we can learn from their experiences.

At the state Capitol, in honor of Gay Pride Month, Governor Tony Evers ordered that the Progress Pride Flag be raised over the east wing of the building. The Progress Pride flag was created to symbolize inclusion of marginalized communities within the LGBTQ+ community, according to the governor’s office. Evers proclaimed June 2022 as LGBTQ+ Pride Month throughout Wisconsin.

Tony Evers:

Our actions matter, our words matter, and doing what’s right matters.

[applause]

LGBTQ kids deserve our love and respect and support just like any other kid. I will always stand with them.

Frederica Freyberg:

PBS Wisconsin is underway with a multi-year project that will explore the history of Wisconsins LGBTQ+ communities in a two-hour documentary. That special, called “Wisconsin Pride,” will be released next year in 2023.

For more on issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.