Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production. You’re watching “Here & Now” 2024 election coverage.

Donald Trump:
From mental institutions…

Frederica Freyberg:
An historic debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is 90 minutes full of bluster and blunder.

Donald Trump:
I really don’t know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don’t think he knows what he said either.

Joe Biden:
The fact of the matter is, he is — what he’s telling you is simply not true.

Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” we hear from voters attending debate watch parties. And Mordecai Lee helps us dissect and decode what Trump and Biden said. U.S. Senate candidates weigh in on abortion two years after the fall of Roe. And finally, how communities are managing the highs and lows of short-term rentals like Airbnbs. It’s “Here & Now” for June 28.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
With this week’s Marquette Law School poll showing a 50-50 dead heat in the race for president in this critical battleground state, the match up on the stage for candidates Joe Biden and Donald Trump took on extreme importance, certainly leaving some disappointed. Special projects journalist Murv Seymour checked in on debate watch parties for reaction.

Donald Trump:
This shouldn’t be a debate.

Joe Biden:
He rewarded the wealthy. He had the largest tax cut in American history.

Murv Seymour:
What’s playing on the big screen at the Barrymore Theater in Madison isn’t the normal movie or show. On this night, all eyes are centered on the first presidential debate of the 2024 election between Democratic President Joe Biden and former Republican president Donald Trump. Billed as the most important debate of a lifetime, this free watch party is hosted by the Devil’s Advocate radio show and The Progressive magazine. Both groups say they look to educate voters before Election Day. At times, voter reaction to this clash of the candidates sounded more like debate watchers were watching a huge sporting event.

Mike Crute:
There’s not a lot of mystery about these two candidates, so I think a lot of people come to this debate with preconceived notions, and I think it’s important, I think it’s all about Joe Biden proving he’s up for the job.

Murv Seymour:
Whether President Biden proved he’s up for the job is definitely part of post-debate conversations.

Christine McDonough:
I don’t know that I’m going to get anything out of it because I know how I’m voting. I don’t know, maybe a feel for what other people are thinking. Maybe I can get that out of it. Maybe some hope.

Murv Seymour:
A few miles to the east, a lot more than bowling is going on at Boulevard Lanes bowling alley.

Donald Trump:
Did you fire anybody that allowed our country to be destroyed?

Murv Seymour:
Here the Republican Party of Dane County sponsors its own debate watch party.

Rolf Lindgren:
I think this is one of the most important debates of all time. It’s a president versus a former president. So it’s sort of like the heavyweight champion against the former heavyweight champion. There’s huge issues with the border and with the economy and inflation, and people want action and they want answers.

Murv Seymour:
With the highest of all stakes on the debate table, Linda Mishler says the debate hasn’t changed a thing about who she plans to vote for in November.

Linda Mishler:
I knew President Trump would do an excellent job, and he really outshone Biden. You know, I was really expecting to see exactly what I saw.

Man:
Thank you very much for coming.

Murv Seymour:
All across the state in cities, suburbs and rural communities, Wisconsinites took part in public and private debate watch parties like these, with hopes of seeing something that helps propel their candidate from the debate stage towards the lane all the way back to the White House. Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Murv Seymour.

Frederica Freyberg:
In the moment reaction from debate watchers.
And now, after a day of reflection, expert analysis on performance and the stakes. UW-Milwaukee professor emeritus, political scientist Mordecai Lee joins us. And thanks a lot for being here, Mordecai.

Mordecai Lee:
Glad to be here. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what was your first reaction when Joe Biden started speaking?

Mordecai Lee:
I didn’t understand why he was speaking so softly and he was mumbling and he sort of wasn’t finishing sentences. I initially thought that maybe this was some impact of the fact that he’s been a stutterer all his life, and all his life he’s had to overcome stuttering and I thought, well, maybe that’s it. But as the hour and a half rolled on, it really didn’t change.

Frederica Freyberg:
Does this go down as much more than a missed opportunity for Joe Biden?

Mordecai Lee:
Well, I think the debate was a train wreck for both of them because you had Trump blustering and you had Biden mumbling. And, for those of us who care about the substance of government, we sort of walked out of there like it’s a soccer match. There was zero-zero. Nobody scored. Trump was sort of fact free and Biden was fact heavy. So I think it was a huge, missed opportunity for both candidates because for Biden, I think the, the score for him is pretty obvious. For Trump, I think the negative was that while he had really good presence and a good voice and real confidence, he really projected, but he had two or three soundbites and punchlines that he kept repeating through the entire hour and a half. It was a major disappointment it seems to me, in terms of the benefit to the viewers.

Frederica Freyberg:
So Donald Trump packed so many things, including as you’ve said, falsehoods into each response and then often non-responses to the question. It’s like it left Biden spinning, but shouldn’t Joe Biden, with all his people, have been prepared for that kind of thing?

Mordecai Lee:
I’m really surprised. You know, there’s a certain rule of political debates that the incumbent always does poorly in the first round. Baldwin did poorly six years ago. Ronald Reagan did poorly against Mondale. Maybe it’s the fact that when you’re the incumbent, you just don’t have quite as much sort of interaction and high-speed input and then statement. So maybe Biden would be better the second time around. But still, he was trying to say so many facts and he trailed off so many times. Or when he’d say, well, first of all and then second of all, it really didn’t cohere. He had a lot to say, but he really never packaged it for the audience.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you feel as though Joe Biden, candidate Joe Biden, can recover from this?

Mordecai Lee:
I imagine that he really, really wants to continue and is going to have to somehow negate the impression that he left. In other words, he’s going to have to do a lot of town hall meetings where it’s back and forth with the questioners. He’s going to have to do a lot of press conferences where it’s back and forth with challenging questions. He really has to show that he’s got it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Did you hear anything in the debate last night that would have resonated one way or the other with Wisconsin voters?

Mordecai Lee:
I didn’t hear anything last night that would resonate with Wisconsin voters because they were always talking in generalities. They were never really talking about the issues that would be of concern to the half dozen states that are in play, including Wisconsin. So I think that was a letdown. You would normally expect in a debate that there would be a couple of throwaway lines where they’re sort of suddenly addressing Pennsylvanians, Michiganians, Wisconsinites, but neither of them really did that.

Frederica Freyberg:
What happens if Joe Biden did step aside, as some even Democrats, are now suggesting? I mean, what happens then?

Mordecai Lee:
If he were to withdraw, you’d have a wide-open convention and that you’d have a couple of governors who have been in waiting for the last three years who are going to jump in and then it’s going to be a delegate hunting one by one, trying to persuade these former delegates to vote for them.

Frederica Freyberg:
We’ll see what happens. Mordecai Lee, thank you very much.

Mordecai Lee:
You’re welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:
In the race for U.S. Senate in Wisconsin, the latest Marquette Law Poll showed incumbent Democrat Tammy Baldwin up 52% to 47% over Republican challenger Eric Hovde. The issue of abortion in the race is front and center, and it’s fast moving. The Wisconsin Supreme Court is reportedly poised to take up a lawsuit that seeks to declare that access to abortion is a right protected by the state constitution as health care providers and patients still face legal uncertainty when it comes to abortion. Reporter Steven Potter is covering the U.S. Senate race. He asked candidates Tammy Baldwin and Eric Hovde about their stance and the future of abortion access.

Tammy Baldwin:
I am pro-choice. I believe that politicians and judges shouldn’t be a part of women’s health care. And, I am appalled to see what has happened to folks since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in the Dobbs decision two years ago.

Eric Hovde:
I believe in the beauty of life. I was blessed with two daughters and three grandchildren. And I agree with exception for rape, incest and the health of the mother. I also believe early on in a woman’s pregnancy; she should have a right to choose. But there comes a time when a baby can be born healthy and alive that it’s unconscionable to terminate that baby.

Tammy Baldwin:
The path ahead has to be both a national and a state path. At the national level, we need to pass my Women’s Health Protection Act. That act would codify Roe v. Wade but take the very necessary additional step of telling states like Wisconsin and Texas and Florida and all these states you’ve been reading about that you can’t at the state level, burden access to abortion care that’s inconsistent with Roe v. Wade. That’s what the Women’s Health Protection Act would do. I’m the lead of that on that bill, and we must advance that at the national level. At the state level, not only does Wisconsin have this ban that was — criminal abortion ban that was passed in 1849, we have a lot of other restrictions that are unnecessary: mandatory ultrasound, 24 hour waiting period. Those burden people’s access to health care. And that shouldn’t be the case. And so we have a state level fight too.

Steven Potter:
Why is abortion, in your opinion, a state issue rather than a national one?

Eric Hovde:
To think that it’s going to be done at the federal government level is just ridiculous. You’re going to have to have a president, 60 members of the Senate and control of the Congress for either party to try to get something done at a national level. That’s just not going to happen. We’re too divided of a country, and you would have to have 67 senators to get to that spot. So it’s been put back to the states. You know, I think a lot of issues should be dealt with at the states because there’s certain states that may want to have a more expansive view of when an abortion can happen. And there’s certain states and communities that will have a more restrictive view. So I think we should have our own solution here in Wisconsin. I think the people of Wisconsin should decide this.

Steven Potter:
You have run for this office before. In the past, your opinion was different on abortion. Why did your opinion change?

Eric Hovde:
Well, my position was not fully different. I always agreed with exceptions. If you look to Western Europe, it tends to be in that first trimester period. You know, late end of the first trimester, beginning of the second trimester. So I think that’s probably a pretty reasonable time frame. That should give a younger woman that’s placed in this very difficult position a chance to, you know, make a choice.

Tammy Baldwin:
I think that the path forward has to involve keeping politicians and judges out of the delivery room, out of, out of people’s lives. You know, there’s this debate between should the states decide, should the federal government decide? I believe women should decide. And I think, I think there is common ground to be had.

Frederica Freyberg:
Churches and faith-based organizations across Wisconsin lead efforts to get more people to vote and engage with elected officials. Reporter Murv Seymour tells us more about the historical connection between the church and voter engagement.

Martin Luther King, Jr.:
Then after getting people registered, that is another even greater responsibility.

Murv Seymour:
Echoes in the fight for the right to vote during the civil rights era have long rung out.

Martin Luther King, Jr.:
And that is to go out to vote in the primary.

Murv Seymour:
More than a half a century later…

Martin Luther King, Jr.:
Let us march on ballot boxes.

Murv Seymour:
…the urge to march on continues.

Greg Lewis:
In some areas you see three churches on one block.

Murv Seymour:
It rings from the one place some consider the catalyst for community engagement.

Greg Lewis:
I don’t care where you go, the church is the most powerful entity that we have in our grasp.

Murv Seymour:
The church.

Choir:
Oh happy day, oh happy day.

Murv Seymour:
Reverend Greg Lewis not only preaches…

Greg Lewis:
When I get to heaven, it’s going to be a happy day.

Murv Seymour:
…he also leads the nonprofit, nonpartisan organization Souls to the Polls.

Greg Lewis:
Church, you have work to do.

Murv Seymour:
Its goal…

Greg Lewis:
Talk to your friends, neighbors, relatives. Call them. Tell them. Listen, involve yourself in the process. We have power. We have the numbers. We just need the energy.

Murv Seymour:
Get everyone in his community who’s eligible to vote.

Greg Lewis:
This is something that we can really make home for early voting. Amen?

Crowd:
Yeah.

Angela Lang:
We always intentionally went to the early vote location at midtown.

Murv Seymour:
When the midtown early voting site in Milwaukee unexpectedly shut down…

Greg Lewis:
Let’s work harder to get out and vote early even more than before.

Murv Seymour:
…Souls to the Polls united with more than a half dozen community groups and some of the 400 pastors Lewis says he has in his contact list.

Greg Lewis:
We’re going to make sure that we really push early voting.

Murv Seymour:
The goal: keep an early voting site in this neighborhood.

Greg Lewis:
This is important. This is where we have to start.

Murv Seymour:
In what feels at times like an outdoor sermon, Reverend Greg Lewis preaches the importance of early voting.

Greg Lewis:
This is how we get economics. This is how we get housing. This is how we get jobs. We have to put people in place who will help us do the things that need to be done in this community, and voting is number uno.

Woman:
It’s great to register people, but if they can’t vote, it really hasn’t accomplished much.

Murv Seymour:
A few miles to the south in a residential neighborhood…

Reirin Gumble:
This is the Milwaukee Zen Center, which has been here in this place for over 30 years.

Murv Seymour:
…sits a Buddhist temple.

Reirin Gumble:
We meditate here in the mornings and we take classes.

Murv Seymour:
On this day, it’s a meeting place.

Woman:
Anything the system needs to know, it’s going to ask for.

Murv Seymour:
To learn about registering people to vote.

Reirin Gumble:
Today, we are going to do a voter registration training.

Woman:
To use the online system, someone has to already be 18 years old.

Reirin Gumble:
Every vote counts and it is important that we take care of that.

Murv Seymour:
Organized by Buddhist priest Reirin Gumble and presented by the League of Women Voters…

Woman:
In order to vote, you have to prove who you are but when you’re registering, you have to prove where you live.

Murv Seymour:
…people here anxiously learned about how to best prepare themselves as election workers. Guided by faith, this nonpartisan, nonprofit spiritual center also sends out thousands of written letters before Election Day encouraging people to vote.

Reirin Gumble:
We ask people to very carefully look at the agenda that certain people have and then make a vote according to their own values. And I think, you know, everybody needs to do that for themselves.

Michael Burch:
The vote is one piece of the whole advocacy picture.

Murv Seymour:
In the heart of the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus

Michael Burch:
Faith communities have had a role in advocacy for a long time.

Murv Seymour:
…Reverend Michael Burch at Crossing Ministries looks to educate this college community about political activism.

Michael Burch:
Listening to the students, that’s my main role.

Murv Seymour:
He does so by bringing together students with and without faith.

Michael Burch:
It’s not all about really being on one end of the spectrum or the other but learning to be versed in what you’re advocating for and understanding it and also being willing to move your position.

Bonnie Margulis:
What is it that you want them to do? Be really clear in your ask.

Murv Seymour:
On this night…

Bonnie Margulis:
If you’re on the mailing lists for different organizations, I’m sure you’ve gotten asked to sign this petition, put your signature on this letter.

Murv Seymour:
Rabbi Bonnie Margulis of Wisconsin Faith Voices of Justice schools a small group of students on how to engage with their local politicians and communicate with their voice and their vote.

Bonnie Margulis:
Students really need to understand the power of their voice, and that they really have, not just the right, but also the responsibility to vote, to learn about issues, to look into things that they care about that are important to them, and to build relationships with their elected officials.

Murv Seymour:
Benjamin Dorava listens from the front row with a purpose.

Benjamin Dorava:
Tonight, I hope to learn, sort of, how to take my first few steps in being more active politically aside from just voting in elections.

Bonnie Margulis:
Ask the students to come up with the questions that they want to have asked, have a moderator. Choosing not to vote is a choice as much as choosing to vote and if you don’t vote, then the person who did vote gets to choose for you who your elected official is. So if you want your values and your beliefs to be reflected in who gets elected, then you need to exercise your right to vote.

Greg Lewis:
We picked up folks here at the church and took them out to vote. We had folks who they went to their homes and they took them to vote.

Murv Seymour:
Without a doubt…

Bonnie Margulis:
All of these faith communities have long histories of speaking truth to power.

Murv Seymour:
…this election cycle, influence from faith and church groups will likely play a huge role.

Greg Lewis:
We can’t let anybody take care of our business, y’all. It’s got to be people we can trust.

Murv Seymour:
And who wins and loses at the ballot.

Bonnie Margulis:
Clergy and faith leaders are trusted messengers. Whether you’re at temple on Friday night or the mosque Friday afternoon or church Sunday morning, clergy have kind of a captive audience.

Michael Burch:
Without faith community involvement in these issues, the entire picture is different.

Murv Seymour:
Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Murv Seymour.

Frederica Freyberg:
In other news, here’s an eye-popping, wallet-busting number. With the NFL draft coming to Green Bay next spring, an Airbnb near Lambeau Field is going for nearly $18,000 a night according to local headlines. Turning single family homes into short-term rentals is on the rise because of that kind of payoff, or even much more modest rental income potential. In response to the growth of such rentals in hot tourist towns like Ashwaubenon near Lambeau, locals are enacting new ordinances putting restrictions in place to protect neighbors and neighborhoods. New rules are slated to go into effect July 1st in Ashwaubenon. Mary Kardoskee is the village president and she joins us now. Thanks so much for being here.

Mary Kardoskee:
Thank you for inviting me. Good to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:
So with the NFL draft coming to Green Bay next spring, how crazy has the short-term rental business become near you?

Mary Kardoskee:
Well, you know, we hear the same thing you hear. You know, the $18,000 a night, $45,000 for the week. You know, I — if people want to rent out their homes, you know, there are rules and regulations that have been put in place that they have to follow. And we, you know, are trying our best to make sure that they follow those rules to keep everybody safe, especially the visitors coming to the area. We have a lot of Airbnb-licensed people. Every Packer game, of course, is very busy. And, yeah, we do surround Lambeau Field on three sides. So there is a lot of, a lot of, rentals going on in our community.

Frederica Freyberg:
What does that look like in a single-family neighborhood when the crowds aren’t there?

Mary Kardoskee:
Well, for the 100% of the time, Airbnb rental homes, you know, your neighborhood is dark. There’s not people out and about and walking the dogs and saying hello when they’re putting their garbage out in the morning and kids running around on bicycles. And so that’s what you lose. You lose the fabric of your community as you get more and more and more.

Frederica Freyberg:
How do outside investors hike the value of single-family homes and what does that mean for people who live there or want to live there and their taxes?

Mary Kardoskee:
Well, you know, every time a home is sold and I’m just going to use this. A three-bedroom ranch with a two-stall attached garage that’s probably assessed at about $260,000. That home may sell for $400,000 $500,000. And then we have the one-offs with the $1.2 million. And, you know, $600,000 and those do change the makeup of your community. The state gives you every year the amount of what your village is worth. And then our assessor has to divvy that up. So of course, it makes the taxes go up for those homeowners around there.

Frederica Freyberg:
You’ve said you’re “trying to protect the community.” Again, how so?

Mary Kardoskee:
So when the short term rental statutes were put into effect in 2017, in the statute it states that you can have a six night minimum seven day, six night minimum for each rental. And it could be 180 consecutive days. That was not originally in our original ordinance, but we did put that in about a year and a half ago. And so we did grandfather some of the previous owners in, licensed owners in for one year. But, other than the 180 consecutive days they now will have to, as of July 1, follow the six night minimum.

Frederica Freyberg:
And how do all of those rules kind of offer this protection of which you speak?

Mary Kardoskee:
Well, it, it makes it a little less attractive because you’re not able to garner as many rentals and makes your — probably your profit margin go down a little bit. They’ll have to probably change up their business plan a bit, because they can only rent once in a six night period. So they’ll have to figure that out.

Frederica Freyberg:
And what kind of opposition are you hearing to that from the people who own these kind of investment, short term rental properties?

Mary Kardoskee:
So originally, they were upset with the six night minimum, 180 consecutive days. A lot of the ones who were licensed by June 30th of 2023 found out that the 180 consecutive days only applies to the new rentals as of July 1 of 2023. So they were opposed to the six night minimum, but our board decided last Tuesday night that they were going to hold up the six night minimum.

Frederica Freyberg:
So the village is kind of trying to thread this needle between protecting the neighborhood and allowing short term rentals, which are in such demand.

Mary Kardoskee:
Correct, correct.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Mary Kardoskee, village president of Ashwaubenon. Thanks so much.

Mary Kardoskee:
Thank you for having me. Have a great day.

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our web site at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. To see all of our election coverage, visit WisconsinVote.org. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.