Here & Now

Here & Now for June 26, 2020

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a police reform protest in Madison turns violent. What led us here? An interview with UW-Madison’s Dr. Sami Schalk. Plus, Wisconsin views on the protest movement, the COVID pandemic and this year’s election. Charles Franklin joins us for a look at the poll numbers. Finally, a closer look at presidential politics, as both the president and vice president made stops in Wisconsin. It’s “Here & Now” for June 26.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided for the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

This week the arrest of a black activist in Madison sparked a protest that turned violent. State buildings were targeted, statues toppled and a democratic state senator attacked. Reporter Trevor Keller takes a closer look at what happened and the fallout in the aftermath of the violence.

Trevor Keller:

Wednesday morning saw workers cleaning up damage on the Capitol grounds after a night of violent protests. The protests followed the arrest of activist Devonere Johnson on Tuesday.

Devonere Johnson:

You’re racist! You’re racist!

Trevor Keller:

Video shows Johnson entering the Coopers Tavern on the Capitol square with a bat and megaphone.

Devonere Johnson:

I wouldn’t be in here right now if this town wasn’t racist!

Trevor Keller:

Police were called and video shows several officers detaining and arresting Johnson.

Devonere Johnson:

What am I being arrested for?

Trevor Keller:

He was charged with disorderly conduct while armed, resisting arrest and attempted escape.

Crowd of protesters:

Black lives matter! Black lives matter!

Trevor Keller:

Peaceful protests for racial justice and police reform have been a common sight around the Capitol for several weeks. However, following Johnson’s arrest, a group of protesters took a more aggressive tone on Tuesday night. A firebomb was thrown through a window of the city-county building. Two statues near the Capitol were torn down. State Senator Tim Carpenter says he was attacked while taking video of protesters.

Tim Carpenter:

Leave my phone alone.

Woman:

Delete it!

Trevor Keller:

He was treated by medics and later tweeted he was sore and may have suffered a concussion. Governor Tony Evers issued a response early Wednesday, saying, “I want to be clear. Violence against any person, whether in the middle of the street in broad daylight, at home trying to sleep, going for a run or happening upon a protest as was the case last night, is wrong.” Assembly Republican leadership called for Madison Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway and Governor Evers to take more forceful action against violent protesters.

Robin Vos:

How about if within a matter of hours we’re able to deploy the police so it never happens in the first place? That’s really where it seems like the priorities are upside down. We don’t want to spend the taxpayers’ money just cleaning up the violence. We want to spend the taxpayers’ money protecting the public and ensuring that it never occurs in the first place.

Trevor Keller:

Activist Ebony Anderson-Carter spoke near the base of the statue titled “Forward.” It was torn down Tuesday and she says that’s symbolic.

Ebony Anderson-Carter:

We’re not moving forward. We’re moving backwards. So this don’t need to be here until we’re ready to move forward.

Trevor Keller:

Reporting in Madison for “Here & Now,” I’m Trevor Keller.

Frederica Freyberg:

Tuesday’s protests in Madison is sparking a deeper debate about how far is too far. Dr. Sami Schalk is an associate professor in the Department of Gender and Women’s Studies at the UW-Madison. Her specialty is the intersection of race, gender and disability. She talked to Marisa Wojcik this week on those topics for our online “Noon Wednesday” segment. While not part of Tuesday’s protests, as an activist herself, she also spoke to what likely sparked them.

Marisa Wojcik:

In response to the protest last night at the Capitol, you tweeted this morning people in Madison clutching their pearls as if folks haven’t been protesting and marching in the streets shouting “no justice, no peace.” You don’t seem surprised by the events last night, and you spoke to this a bit. What do you kind of expect going forward?

Sami Schalk:

Yeah. So, I mean, I anticipate that there will be a wave of repression. So I anticipate — Governor Evers already said that he’s prepared to put out the National Guard. Anytime the state kind of tries to push back, people are going to push back more. So rather than saying we hear you and we’re going to do something to address the problem that you are so upset about, that you have been so harmed by. Instead there’s this mass suppression. And whenever that happens, people are going to act out even more. When you put more violence on the people who are upset about violence, you’re going to get violence back. And I don’t personally believe that property destruction is violence. I think that it is a way that people who have been disempowered and have no other way to express their power other than to tear something down express their power. Right, there are things that the mayor and the governor could be doing, but individual people, these like 17 to 25-year-old folks out in the streets, what power do they have besides to scream the streets and to pull down a statue to say we’re here and you need to listen to us. So I anticipate that that’s going to keep happening until things shift in terms of the way that the city responds and the city has really been responding with these placating measures and then going behind our back. I mean that video that came out of the mayor speaking to the police, no one trusts her now. No one believes she’s on our side in any way whatsoever. And, so, yeah, the trust has really been broken in the city between folks who I think really wanted to believe in the liberal progressive ethos of Madison that really thinks of itself as this special little gem, so different than the rest of Wisconsin. And we see that it’s all just a facade. So folks are really fed up. So yeah. I anticipate that what we saw last night is not the end of that. And I think that there will be more pushback from the police and from the National Guard. I anticipate there will probably be gassing occurring again and rubber bullets, because this is the way they respond to people exercising the little bit of power that they have.

Marisa Wojcik:

You are hoping for real, substantive, long-term change as an outcome of all of this. What does that look like specifically to you?

Sami Schalk:

Yep. That looks like getting cops out of schools immediately. That’s an immediate thing that we can do. It’s summer. Before the school year starts, we sign no cops, absolutely no cops in schools. It means defunding the police in this city and redirecting those resources to other areas to provide the kinds of support that we need. We understand in the movement that some of the jobs that cops do are necessary, right? Like we need people who can block traffic sometimes when things are happening. That doesn’t need to be a police officer with a gun. There’s no reason for it. We’re doing it ourselves with our cars. It’s fine. Right? So we understand that those resources, some of those resources need to be redirected into safety and to making sure that there are things to help folks who are having mental health crises. All of that needs to happen, but it doesn’t need to be policing with guns and they have way too much power and way too much control. There needs to be a defunding of police and redirecting those resources into the spaces we actually need to make this city safe and usable for a whole lot of folks. So those are the main things. And then community control. That even when we develop those safety committees or whatever it’s going to look like to create safety, it has to be under community control, meaning that individual people, not paid members who are like working for the state, but individual members of the community are able to say we fire you or we reprimand you or whatever, that they have to be accountable to the community, not to themselves. With the police union, the only people that can reprimand police are people who are police. That makes no sense, makes no sense for them to be the ones that are so-called keeping themselves accountable. There is no way to hold people accountable when they’re just doing it within a group. So there needs to be community control of police. They need to be out of schools. And they need to be defunded. That’s our first kind of major thing. But of course there are all kinds of other things that we would like to see to make sure that we live in a world where people, all people, including white folks, including straight folks like y’all, we want y’all to be okay, too. But in order for that to happen, we have to be okay. That’s why again we send our folks who are most marginalized and are most impacted by oppression to understand what needs to change.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the wake of this week’s protest, Governor Evers once again deployed the Wisconsin National Guard to protect state property. We invited the governor to join us this week, but were told it did not fit into his schedule. The morning after Tuesday’s protest in Madison, Evers released the following statement: “Any single act of injustice against one person is less justice for all of us and the people who committed these acts of violence will be held accountable. My thoughts are with Senator Carpenter who was among the individuals attacked last night and wish him a quick recovery.”

This week, U.S. Senate Republicans and House Democrats could not find common ground on competing police reform bills. Democrats charge Republican policy proposals don’t go far enough. It looks likely the two sides will need to caucus to reconcile differences. Last week, we heard from Democrat Representative Mark Pocan. This week, Zac Schultz caught up with Republican Wisconsin Congressman Glenn Grothman for his reaction.

Glenn Grothman:

Well, the bill Nancy Pelosi is going to put on the floor is a dangerous bill. When you take away the qualified immunity for police officers, you are putting them at risk big time. I mean you wouldn’t be shutting down the police departments, but you could make them very ineffective. You look at the huge increase in murders here in Milwaukee, the increase in murders in Chicago. The last thing we want to do right now is hamstring the police. And I’m saying that from somebody who did try to make it easier to fire the police around 2008. And there are no question it should be easier to remove a bad police officer. But to punish all the police officers is going too far.

Frederica Freyberg:

President Donald Trump on Thursday made a stop at Marinette Marine. Trump toured the shipyard in Marinette that was awarded a $5.5 billion Navy contract to build new frigates. The company is expected to invest more than $200 million and create 1,000 jobs at the shipyard as a result of that contract.

Donald Trump:

But it’s going to be built right here in the American heartland and it’s going to be built by you and it’s going to go on for a long time because it’s up to 20 ships and it might be extended and they’re working on an extension right now and we’ll see. But just go. You’re going to be building your hearts away.

Frederica Freyberg:

That visit comes just two days after Vice President Mike Pence stopped in Waukesha County to kick off his “Faith in America” tour. Senior Political Reporter Zac Schultz was there.

Zac Schultz:

Mike Pence’s opening words were nothing new for a politician.

Mike Pence:

Well, hello, Wisconsin! [cheers and applause] You all look great. Thanks for coming out today.

Zac Schultz:

But “you look great, thanks for coming out” carries additional meaning as the Trump campaign renews in-person rallies in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. Over the weekend Donald Trump met lackluster crowds in Tulsa, Oklahoma, so Pence had to feel good about the 200 people that represented a capacity crowd in Pewaukee.

Mike Pence:

I’m in Wisconsin today for really one reason and one reason only. And that is that Wisconsin and America need four more years of President Donald Trump!

Zac Schultz:

The threat from the coronavirus hung over the whole event. Even if most of the attendees claimed not to worry.

George Lucia:

I haven’t worn a mask at all, ever. There’s 350 million people in this country, so the odds are 350 million to one.

Zac Schultz:

Tickets to the rally required a disclosure statement saying no one would sue the campaign if they became affected. Attendees had their temperatures checked as they walked in and volunteers acted as ushers adjusting socially-distanced chairs to the size of the group. Masks were available and while some wore them on the way in, most took them off once inside.

Man:

They gave me one. I wore it for about half a minute.

Zac Schultz:

A woman who would only identify herself as Lori says she’s had her Trump-themed mask for months even though Trump himself won’t wear one.

Lori:

I’m not wearing it in here because we didn’t have to and we’re social distancing, so I’m good.

Zac Schultz:

COVID-19 has killed at least 119,000 people in the U.S. in just a few months and new cases are on the rise in many southern states. But it’s clear Pence would rather talk about something else. He spent just five minutes out of his forty minute speech talking about COVID-19 and Pence brought up the coronavirus in terms of the economy.

Mike Pence:

The economy alone was on an incredible roll. And then came the worst pandemic in 100 years.

Zac Schultz:

The Trump campaign has said the economy is the key to re-election and Pence highlighted that in his remarks.

Mike Pence:

We see cases that are stable or even declining in 40 states across the country. We have some outbreaks in the south and we’re focusing energy on those. But all 50 states are opening up again.

Zac Schultz:

Reporting from Pewaukee, I’m Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

The Democratic Convention in Milwaukee will move from the Fiserv Arena to a smaller venue and be mostly remote, with delegates being told not to come. Candidate Joe Biden and his running mate, however, are slated to accept the nomination in Milwaukee. This week the Trump and Pence visits to Wisconsin come as their re-election bid heats up against former Vice President Biden. Both candidates hope to claim Wisconsin this November after Trump narrowly won the state in 2016.

This week, a new Marquette Law School Poll gives us an early indication of how that race is taking shape in the Badger state. Poll Director Charles Franklin joins us with those results, and Charles, very nice to see you again.

Charles Franklin:

Good to be here. Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

So as to the race for president in Wisconsin, your polling found that 49% favor Joe Biden to 41% for Donald Trump. How have these numbers trended?

Charles Franklin:

This is a bump up for Biden this month. That eight-point margin this month compares to three points in March and in May and a dead tie in February. So we’ve seen some movement up. But this month in a special bump-up for Biden.

Frederica Freyberg:

And this is trending that way in polls across the country.

Charles Franklin:

We’ve seen it in polling across the country. We’ve seen it in a number of state polls as well, not just national polls. If you think of the last six weeks, two months, they have not been filled with good news for the incumbent administration, whether it’s the protests or the virus or the economy. And so this has not been a good time for the president.

Frederica Freyberg:

You mentioned it just a bit ago, but his approval for his handling of the death of George Floyd and coronavirus is upside down right now.

Charles Franklin:

It’s not just a little upside down on the handling of the protests. There are three crisis issues that are going on right now. In handling the protests, only 30% approve of the job President Trump is doing, 58% disapprove. On handling the virus, 44% approve. That’s unchanged from last month. And on the economy, 50% approve. That’s still his strong suit. But that 50% is down four points from a month ago. So across these three crises, you see his relative weakness and his declining strength on the economy, and with the newest issue, the protests, a kind of remarkably strong net negative, 30 approve, 58 disapprove, basically two-to-one negative.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, in that regard, your polling shows on race and police, shows that overall 61% of respondents approve of mass protests, while 36% disapprove. Is that a surprising number to you?

Charles Franklin:

I think it’s a very interesting number. You’ve heard a lot of people mention the comparison of 1968 with today. But the reaction to the 1968 unrest and riots and civil disturbances in the wake of assassinations was vastly more negative. Today, I think what we’re seeing in this 61% approval number is the sympathy for the situation of black Americans who we have seen in videos dying at the hands of the police repeatedly over the last few years. There’s much bigger differences over what to do about the police, but in this broad sense of sympathy, 61% is a solid majority supporting the protests. And that’s despite the sometimes violent nature of some of those protests.

Frederica Freyberg:

Moving on to Governor Tony Evers’ job approval, you found that among your respondents 54% approve of what he’s been doing and 38% disapprove. Now, that has slipped from a high of 65%? Is that right? In March for Tony Evers?

Charles Franklin:

That’s right. In March it was 65. Then it fell to 59. And now it’s down to the 54. He was at 51% in February, before the virus hit. So he’s just a little bit higher than he was then. But the high watermarks that he had in March and that many governors around the country had has come back down to levels much closer to the normal level of his support before the epidemic arrived.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Charles, we leave it there. Boy, you know these numbers cold and you had lot of questions in this poll. Thank you so much and again nice to have you.

Charles Franklin:

Thank you. Take care.

Frederica Freyberg:

For a closer look at the Marquette Law School Poll and more results, join us online at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab.

Nineteen counties across Wisconsin now have high levels of coronavirus activity. The state health department now has an online dashboard that shows the risk level for every county in the state, with the darkest shades showing where there is the highest current risk. As you can see, central Wisconsin from Green Bay to Eau Claire is at the highest level along with most of southern Wisconsin. The map is updated each Wednesday. More than 25,000 people have tested positive in Wisconsin and more than 760 have died.

Andrea Palm:

We are seeing in a few communities around the state community spread that is not linked to a specific outbreak, which suggests to us that that is the result of reduced social distancing, reduced adherence to these good public health practices that we’ve been talking about since the beginning of the response. And so we certainly, as usual, would encourage folks to be vigilant about keeping themselves safe, practicing physical distancing, remaining home as much as you can to reduce and prevent the spread.

Frederica Freyberg:

New COVID-19 guidelines for Wisconsin schools were released this week for teachers, students and parents. DPI Senior Policy Adviser Jennifer Kammerud provided testimony this week to the Assembly Committee on Education. Jennifer Kammerud joined us earlier this week and thanks very much for doing so.

Jennifer Kammerud:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So your reopening plan is called “Education Forward” and it includes the things that we might expect, like distancing, masks and symptom monitoring. I know it’s up to each district, but for a grade school, for example, how difficult is this going to be to implement?

Jennifer Kammerud:

Well, it’s really going to depend on the conversation that the local school district has with their local health authority and with their parents in terms of how they’re going to operate the school day. So for some school districts, it might not look that different. You might be in school five days a week, just washing hands more, making sure you’re doing your coughing and sneezing etiquette and distancing students some more. You might be altering how you drop off students. And I think probably one of the big differences might be in terms of busing, how you’re getting students to school, just to try to create a transportation situation that is as safe as possible.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet at other districts, it might be more stringent, you’re suggesting, with the masks and the symptom monitoring and that kind of thing?

Jennifer Kammerud:

Absolutely. Again, it’s going to depend on the local health situation and the conversations with the local health authority and, again, what the comfort level and decision-making is at the school district level to provide that environment that is as safe as possible. So some districts will have different procedures in place. They might have required masks. They might have — because of social distancing requirements they’ve decided on, they might have A and B schedules or cohorts of students moving through a school. They might do a four-day week with a fifth day off for cleaning. Those are just all different examples. But really at the end of the day, it’s up to the school district to determine.

Frederica Freyberg:

And the plan calls for some mix of virtual learning as well?

Jennifer Kammerud:

We were wanting to be really up front with school districts about the need to plan for virtual education. There may be situations where because of the decisions you’re making, only part of the student body can be in the school at a particular time. There may be situations where the school is closed again under the order of a local health authority or on the state health authority or the district itself. And there will be students who will be unable to return to school no matter what the situation because of concerns with their own health, underlying health conditions. And so districts really do need to have a plan in place in terms of how they’re going to deliver learning in those different environments.

Frederica Freyberg:

And so in terms of people not being able to return to schools in person, that holds for teachers as well, is that correct, if they are not comfortable or unable under physicians’ orders to return?

Jennifer Kammerud:

Yeah. There may– yes. There will be staff who will have underlying health conditions and concerns, and we are encouraging those staff to talk with their school districts about what modifications can be made and how to approach that situation.

Frederica Freyberg:

What has been the reaction from districts across the state to this plan?

Jennifer Kammerud:

Well, overall, there is a lot in this plan, and we have heard a lot of positives in terms of the comprehensive nature of it, the things to think about. Very little in this plan is required. It’s provided as a conversation starter, jumping-off point, things to think about. There were questions about some of the learning scenarios and we have made it clear that these are all decisions they will need to make. And, again, there is no minimum class size. There is no required way of doing it. Every district has its own unique situation that they’ll need to consider. So really the things that they were looking for were ideas on how to handle transportation, cafeteria food distribution, how to potentially social distance in the school environment, how to attend to the needs of special education students, English learners and gifted and talented students.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what has been the reaction from parents?

Jennifer Kammerud:

So parents I think look at the document differently. This is, again, a complex document. And so a lot of them were I think taking away a lot of different things. We got a lot of questions here at DPI about minimum class sizes and does my school have to do one of these learning modules, learning scenarios and we’ve been telling them, no, that this is really a conversation you should have with your local school district.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Jennifer Kammerud, thanks very much.

Jennifer Kammerud:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you for watching “Here & Now.” Stay well Wisconsin, and we will see you next week. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.