Here & Now

Here & Now for June 24, 2022

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

Abortion advocates brace themselves for a world without Roe. COVID vaccines for the youngest kids get emergency approval and politics heat up nationally and state side.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” reaction to the historic ruling that overturns Roe v. Wade. What parents should know about COVID vaccines for children under 6. Our political panel foreshadows the midterms. It’s “Here & Now” for June 24.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The U.S. Supreme Court today overturned the 50-year precedent case Roe v. Wade in what’s being called a ruling for the ages. And with it, the generation-long fight on the part of anti-abortion advocates and activists to end legal abortions. Laws around access to abortion now turn to the states. We turn to Gracie Skogman, legislative director at Wisconsin Right to Life for her reaction. And thanks very much for being here.

Gracie Skogman:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction to the ruling?

Gracie Skogman:

We are absolutely overjoyed. The pro-life movement has been advocating for the protection of preborn life and the overturning of Roe for decades. So it’s hard to even believe that this day has come.

Frederica Freyberg:

In Wisconsin, we know that there is a law on the books predating Roe that criminalizes abortion. Do you expect to work to tighten that even more?

Gracie Skogman:

Our focus right now is calling on our attorney general and district attorneys to ensure that that law is effective at saving lives. But we are certainly willing and preparing for further action we can take legislatively if more needs to be done to protect preborn lives. But I think our main focus is really on supporting women who are facing these challenging or unexpected pregnancies. We realize that they will be in need of support, potentially medical care, housing, all of those concerns, and we want to increase the efforts of the pregnancy resource centers and maternity homes so that they are able to fill in the gap for those women.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about recent Wisconsin polling that says 31% favor overturning Roe while a full 69% opposed striking it down? Does public opinion matter on this issue to you?

Gracie Skogman:

I think that the extraordinary thing about Roe being overturned is the decision regarding abortion access now returns to the states. So we can have those conversations in Wisconsin and it will certainly be an important issue going into the elections. And our work at Wisconsin Right to Life is to change hearts and minds. So we will continue to educate on the reality of abortion, and hopefully by providing women with loving, supportive options, they will want to choose life.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, a moment ago you spoke to the idea that your first priority is to work with the attorney general, Josh Kaul, to make sure that this law on the books in Wisconsin is enforced. He has said he would not enforce it. What about that?

Gracie Skogman:

We believe and know fundamentally that his role is to enforce our laws. So of course, we’re not shocked that he is saying that. And I think that this will be a longer conversation and battle that we are willing to fight here in Wisconsin if he is not willing to enforce the law. And again, it comes back to the importance of our elections in the fall. There are many pro-life candidates who are running to take his place, to take our governor’s place, and would be willing to protect these children.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Gracie Skogman, Wisconsin Right to Life, thanks very much.

Gracie Skogman:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin Right to Life says it is not in favor of removing the medical emergency exception in Wisconsin law. For advocates of access to legal abortion, the ruling overturning Roe v. Wade is devastating. Tanya Atkinson is president and CEO of Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin and thanks very much for being here.

Tanya Atkinson:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you have called this a devastating ruling that hands women’s healthcare decisions over to politicians. When this ruling came down this morning, what happened in your clinics in Wisconsin?

Tanya Atkinson:

That was exactly what happened. We had people in our waiting room in our health centers and when the ruling came down, our team had to go out into the lobby and let those individuals know that they — excuse me, would not be able to access the healthcare that they needed. Those individuals that had made a decision for themselves, their families, their health, had to be told that rather than making that decision, that they had already made, that instead, someone else had made that decision for them and they wouldn’t be able to access that care. And we worked to try to find them an appointment in other states where abortion is still safe and legal.

Frederica Freyberg:

What were the reactions of the women in the waiting room when told of this news and what it meant for them?

Tanya Atkinson:

Yeah, the reactions — you know, it was — it was — it was traumatic for some people. You know, to be able to — you know, to not be able to access this care that they had contemplated and decided that they needed for their health or their future.

Frederica Freyberg:

What kind of help can Planned Parenthood offer to women seeking abortion services including those who had to be essentially turned away today?

Tanya Atkinson:

Yeah, thank you. We had 70 patients with appointments over the next couple of days. And these are our friends. These are our families. These are our neighbors. And this is the human impact of these policy decisions. Even in the face of the reality that the majority of Wisconsinites think access to abortion should be safe and legal. Thank you for the question, because Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin remains open across the state and if somebody needs an abortion, we ask that they contact us and we can help them in a variety of different ways. We can provide some of the healthcare that is not specifically abortion. We have navigators that specifically can help them both find appointments as well as financial resources that they might need. And we will be there for people when they return home again for any aftercare or any of the array of other services that we provide.

Frederica Freyberg:

Planned Parenthood says it does not believe Wisconsins 1849 abortion law is enforceable and is exploring legal options. Like what?

Tanya Atkinson:

Well, there’s a number of legal options that we’re looking at. And we’re looking at all of them that are available. At this point it is not worth risking the liberty and freedom of our healthcare providers. And so that’s why we paused services.

Frederica Freyberg:

Tanya Atkinson, Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin, thank you very much.

Tanya Atkinson:

Thank you so much, take care.

Frederica Freyberg:

Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin did prepare ahead of today’s ruling. Marisa Wojcik visited one of their clinics on Madison’s east side.

Marisa Wojcik:

Surgical nurses cluster around a table, prepping for a busy day Thursday. The day before the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade. Under different circumstances, it’d be a normal day except Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin took dramatic steps this week to reorient patient care away from abortion in anticipation of the ruling. These nurses have seen many patients, heard many stories.

Nurse A:

We’re just here to support them, whatever they decide.

Nurse B:

I think that’s the best part of this job. As a nurse, my soul purpose is to support what my patient wants and thinks is best for them.

Marisa Wojcik:

Overturning Roe v. Wade reinstates an 1849 Wisconsin law criminalizing abortion.

Nurse C:

On a really selfish level, we’re like, dammit, I love this job. I don’t want to lose this job. And I know right now there’s some discussion and efforts right now for some of us to travel to Illinois to continue to provide abortion services and help with some of the influx of patients that Illinois specifically is anticipated to get.

Marisa Wojcik:

The clinic plans to remain open and boost their early pregnancy assessment and family planning services.

Nurse C:

We’re not getting fired or anything like that. But this is obviously a very special type of care that we do here. And I don’t know. I think that’s tough.

Marisa Wojcik:

For “Here & Now,” I’m Marisa Wojcik in Madison.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin lawmakers also weighed in. Governor Tony Evers said, This is an absolutely disastrous and unconscionable decision by the U.S. Supreme Court. The consequences of which I hope to never see again in my lifetime.” Wisconsin’s Democratic U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin said, “Republicans have taken Wisconsin women back to 1849. And it is Republicans who want to keep us there with support for having politicians interfere in the freedoms of women who will now have fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers have had for decades.” And Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson said, For almost 50 years, the decision of nine unelected justices have prevented a democratically derived consensus on the profound moral issue of abortion to be formed. This decision” he says, “will now allow that democratic process to unfold in each state.”

This week the January 6th Committee investigating the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol found Wisconsin and Senator Ron Johnson figuring prominently in testimony that Donald Trump orchestrated the effort to overturn 2020 election results. The committee focused on the slate of false Republican electors from seven battleground states including Wisconsin, saying the scheme was to have Vice President Pence count their votes instead of those of the state-certified Biden electors. One exhibit showed a text message just before the vice president’s counting of votes on January 6th from Johnsons chief of staff to Pence’s staffer. It said, “Johnson needs to hand something to VPOTUS.” The Pence staffer asked, “what is it?” Johnson’s chief texted, “An alternate slate of electors for Michigan and Wisconsin,” to which Pence’s person said, “Do not give that to him.”

Ron Johnson:

This is a total partisan witch hunt.

Frederica Freyberg:

Following the committee hearing, Johnson told reporters he didn’t know about any of it. One of Wisconsins false electors, former chair of the state Republican Party, Andrew Hitt, was deposed by the committee and said he understood the GOP electors’ votes would only come into play in any of Trump’s legal challenges succeeded.

Andrew Hitt:

That would have been using our electors — well, it would have been using our electors in ways that we weren’t told about. And we wouldn’t have support it.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the 2022 elections, the primary in Wisconsin for governor and U.S. Senate are now just six weeks away on August 9. And Marquette Law School Pollster Charles Franklin took voters’ temperature on the candidates this week. He joins us now with results of his latest statewide poll. And Charles, thanks so much for being here.

Charles Franklin:

Good to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

Before getting into your latest polling, in May your survey found that 69% of respondents did not favor overturning Roe v. Wade. Now this has happened. Where do voters go with that sentiment?

Charles Franklin:

Yeah, and that 69% was in the national survey. So those were voters nationwide. Here in Wisconsin, we’ve consistently found around 59 or 60% favor legal abortion in all or most cases, about 35% say it should be illegal in all or most cases. And those numbers have barely budged over the last decade. I think what the court’s decision today does, though, is it throws abortion policy back to governors and legislatures around the country. And that makes this an issue in which those governors and legislatures have vastly more control than they’ve had for 49 years. That makes it likely that this becomes a really pertinent issue in the fall campaigns.

Frederica Freyberg:

Indeed. Let’s get now then to the results of this week’s political polling. According to your results, Tim Michels has shot up to the top nowt by 1, 27 to 26 over Rebecca Kleefisch. Kevin Nicholson sits at 10% and Tim Ramthun comes in at 3%. It didn’t take Michels long to make it competitive with the frontrunner.

Charles Franklin:

No, it seems really clear there were voters sitting on the sidelines in the Republican primary that did come to him quickly, a little over a month and a half after he got in the race. Kleefisch came down but by just six points from 32 to 26, while Michels picks up 27%. So obviously, most of what he picked up came from “don’t knows,” which came down from nearly half to only about a third now.

Frederica Freyberg:

You can see the full slate of election polling and our extended interview with Charles Franklin on our web page.

Now for a straight-up partisan look at upcoming elections, we turn to our political panelists: Republican Bill McCoshen and Democrat Scot Ross. Thank you both very much for being here. Nice to see you. But Scot, first to you. How does the issue of abortion access play into voters’ decisions in Wisconsin where a standing law on the books criminalizing abortion couldn’t be vetoed by the governor in any case?

Scot Ross:

Yeah, but it’s also why it’s so important that we re-elect Governor Tony Evers because he has been a strong advocate for reproductive freedom for women. He has vetoed nine separate attacks on reproductive freedom that would punish women, that would punish doctors that have been passed by both chambers of the legislature. And remember, the Republican position is – that they’ve staked out – is anathema to what the people want. Over 60% of people support the access to reproductive rights. Only, I think, 11% support what Kleefisch, what Michels, what the Republicans are saying, which is no exceptions for rape and incest. That’s just devastating.

Frederica Freyberg:

Bill, how does abortion play into voters’ decisions at the polls?

Bill McCoshen:

Well, it shifts it from a federal issue to a state issue. So candidates running for the state assembly, state senate, are now going to have to answer that question – what’s your position on abortion, because states will have the ability to modify laws. Wisconsin has an 1849 law on the books. So it’ll — they’ll get asked about that on the campaign trail no question about it. So abortion never used to be a primary issue in general elections. It always has been at least on the Republican side in primaries but now it’s going to be a general election issue for legislative races.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for who’s going to get out and vote, the latest Marquette Law School Poll has Republican voters significantly more enthusiastic to vote than Democrats. So, Scot, to you, what is dragging down the Democrats’ enthusiasm?

Scot Ross:

I think it’s a couple thing. One, we still have a hangover from the pandemic. And Democrats are in charge. Democrats have the governor’s office here and Democrats have control of the governor’s — or the presidency and both chambers of Congress. It’s not a necessarily functional majority. But that’s the problem. You have it. You own it. And that’s why Democrats have to make sure they are articulating these contrasts between the Republicans like we just talked about, abortion.

Frederica Freyberg:

Bill, why are Republicans more pumped in your mind?

Bill McCoshen:

Im going to steal a line from James Carville, the campaign consultant to Bill Clinton in 1992. It’s the economy, stupid. And that’s what’s dragging down Democrats. Republicans are fired up about inflation. It’s at a 41-year high. Gas prices are at the highest any of us can remember in our lifetime. Those are kitchen table issues, Fred, that people talk about day in and day out. And that’s what’s motivating Republicans. They want to see a change. And that environment – we’ll get to that later a little bit later – is going to ultimately help Ron Johnson.

Frederica Freyberg:

I was going to follow up on that. Scot, does Biden own inflation?

Scot Ross:

It’s a tough one because I don’t think a Republican can tell you what they would do to solve it other than tax breaks to rich people because that’s the only elixir they ever have. Oh wait, attacking workers’ rights, that’s the other thing. And that’s not going to solve it. Nobody is talking about what they actually would do. Here’s the thing. Democrats — if the campaign talks about abortion, healthcare, and guns, Democrats will do very well. It’s a little more challenging because of inflation and you know, if it talks about inflation, because Biden is the president and it is challenging.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s talk about Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson. His favorability as we know is way upside down right now in that latest poll. Plus, can someone offer up false electors to the vice president of the United States and get re-elected? I’m asking Bill this first, because he’s your party’s candidate.

Bill McCoshen:

Yeah, let me start with the second part of that. I think that I wouldn’t worry too much about his favorable/unfavorable. I think the environment certainly helps him. Starting with the economy. Starting with how people you know, there are more layoffs coming. People are losing more of their paychecks because inflation is sucking up more of their hard-earned dollars. So those things are ultimately going to work for Johnson, regardless of who his opponent is. On your last point, you know, Ron Johnson has said that he had nothing to do with what happened on January 6th. I’ll take him at his word. He said it was staff to staff. That’s all the evidence we have so far, is that it was staff to staff. So we’ll see if anything else comes to light over the next several weeks.

Scot Ross:

Yeah, please. Ron Johnson wants us to believe that he had a package delivered to the vice president of the United States because a house intern told him to do it. With people like Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene and you know, Josh Hawley, in the Senate, sometimes you say, too stupid to be in Congress but I think in this case, we might be there unless Ron Johnson is lying, the guy who said he wouldn’t run for a third term and the guy who said — gave his donors huge tax breaks. WE have — that guy might be lying.

Frederica Freyberg:

So Bill, just back to that, I mean, what does that look like for his base? That he — his staff, he says he didn’t know about it. But it’s right there on the screen in the committee hearing where they want to hand this package to the vice president. Does that fire up his base?

Bill McCoshen:

His base is fired up. If you went to the state convention a month ago in Middleton, the most popular guy in that building was Ron Johnson. There is no question about that. The Republican base loves him. And he will have their full support throughout this campaign. To win he’s going to need independents as well. And so I mean, that would be the group that Id be worried about, how they feel about all this. But will they accept his explanation or will they look for more? We’ll see. But his base is rock solid.

Scot Ross:

Ron Johnson is the leader of the Republican Party Wisconsin. And he is losing to his opponents. Tony Evers, on the other hand, is beating all of his opponents. Democrats have challenges but, like, our people are ahead in the polls.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just by this much and then that enthusiasm comes in. But meanwhile, in this race for governor, Tim Michels has now overtaken, just barely, Rebecca Kleefisch. Bill, who’s your candidate here?

Bill McCoshen:

The momentum in this race right now is on Michael’s side. He’s got the resources to come out swinging on August 10th after he wins this primary. So you know, if Im the Michels campaign, Im not taking anything for granted. Rebecca Kleefisch works her tail off. She’s invested a lot in this race. And she’s not going to go down without a fight. So this final 45 days will sort of be the contrast phase of that race and I expect there to be some jabs going back and forth. But if you’re placing a bet today, Id place it on Michels because he’s got the momentum.

Frederica Freyberg:

Scot, what do you think about these candidates?

Scot Ross:

Well, they’re all jumping over each other to be as divisive as possible. Meanwhile you’ve got Governor Evers who spent the last three years doing what’s right for Wisconsin to move us forward. We’re better and we are stronger than we were when he took office. And he continues to try and work with the Republican Legislature. Not working so well but he’s talking to Republican voters at the same time about that who may be having trouble with where their party has gone, because it’s gone off the deep end. And you want to talk about where the Republicans are at this point in time? You know, think about one of the biggest challenges facing the country. Gas prices, right? Where are we at with gas prices? Republicans say it’s a big problem for Democrats. The fact is Republicans are in the pocket of big oil.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to give the final word, 30 seconds, to Bill. Go ahead.

Bill McCoshen:

Yeah, let’s go back to Governor Evers. He’s like Mr. Rogers. He’s a likable guy. He’s not polarizing. That is a brand that works for him but history is working against him. Tommy Thompson is the only governor who has won re-election when his party controlled the White House. That was in 1990. I was the communications director on that campaign. Plus the political environment, ultimately, there’s political gravity that will play in here. Right track, wrong direction, is upside down by 20 points. Yes, Evers numbers are good. He’s not going to be easy to beat but history is not on his side.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross, thank you both very much. We’ll have you back soon.

In other news, the FDA this week gave emergency authorization for COVID-19 vaccines in children from 6 months to 5 years old. Marisa Wojcik sat down with pediatric infectious disease specialist Dr. James Conway for more.

Marisa Wojcik:

What have you heard from parents, if any, now that the approval of the COVID-19 vaccine has come out for kids under 5?

James Conway:

Yeah, as with everything throughout the pandemic, it’s a mixed bag. There’s a large group of parents that are actually really excited. They’ve been waiting a long time and are really eager to get their kids signed up and are a little frustrated that there isn’t enough vaccine yet this week. There’s a group, pretty much the largest group I think, that have taken the wait-and-see attitude, although it’s a split group. One group basically doesn’t want to deal with the hassle of it and trying to compete to get slots, so they’re waiting and seeing mostly to be able to get it easily. There’s another group that does want to see a little bit more data come out from larger sections of the population. And then there’s a relatively small group that are fiercely opposed and they’re never going to get it no matter what we ask them to do.

Marisa Wojcik:

There’s a misconception, though, that kids are less vulnerable. Do children and parents of kids of this age group feel left behind?

James Conway:

I won’t argue the fact that most kids do do fine and recover from it. But we are seeing now the same things we see in adults. We’re seeing kids with long COVID. We’re seeing kids with permanent disabilities related to lung and heart injuries or even neurologic problems. So I think we’ve learned a lot more with this last omicron surge just because we had a very different dynamic as far as how behavior was but also who was vulnerable in our communities.

Marisa Wojcik:

Which brands of the vaccines have been approved and at what dosages?

James Conway:

So the Pfizer kids are going to get three doses. When they originally seemed to be getting ready to submit their information back in February and March, people looked at it and said, it doesn’t seem to be effective enough with two doses, and so they continued those studies and basically extended them and decided on three doses. Moderna is coming in initially with just two doses at that 25 micrograms. I think most of the expectations are these groups will eventually need boosters. The same as we’ve added booster now for all the other age groups, including most recently, the 5- to 11-year-olds.

Marisa Wojcik:

Now, you’ve dealt with vaccines in younger humans for quite a while. What is your message to parents or guardians unsure about vaccinating their child between 6 months and 5 years old?

James Conway:

There are a couple things that are really key to remember. One, this virus is unpredictable. And as much as we think we understand it, it does things and it changes that actually then leads to unexpected consequences. Some of which are pretty unfortunate. And so I think it’s a false narrative to convince ourselves that the virus is somehow getting milder or less invasive or less transmissible. I think the other thing is that this virus keeps changing and as it keeps mutating, unfortunately people are not maintaining their immunity. But we can’t let ourselves be fooled by that predicting that then they’re going to be protected and have a milder case or have no infection when it comes around. So we’ve got a tool now that is extraordinarily safe in all these studies that we’ve done. And so I think that’s really where we’re looking at these as being something that’s going to change how we think about this, is trying to give essentially equitable protection to all age groups so that they’re protected against the worst outcomes that can happen, as we continue to learn about this really sort of rapidly changing dynamic of this pandemic in front of us.

Marisa Wojcik:

So if a parent or guardian is out there listening to this and they are really eager to get their child vaccinated, can they just go to the pharmacy, like so many of us have, to get our COVID shot or is there a different procedure for this really younger group?

James Conway:

Yeah, not quite yet. I think that currently the supplies are just starting to roll out and they’re just shipping from the federal government to the state government and then being allocated out. So at this point, I think everybody is going to have to be looking for appointments, whether it’s through pharmacies, whether it’s through public health, or whether it’s through health systems, until there is much more supply available. But I do think that there’s going to be more of an effort now to move the vaccines now out into my primary care offices to make it both easier for people but also to do it in a place where they’re more familiar and comfortable and where they can actually talk to people and get their answers. Under age 3 kids do need a prescription from a provider, why people need to make an appointment because then the pharmacy can reach out to your primary care provider. Under age 3, people do need something that’s provided to the pharmacy that a provider has prescribed it.

Marisa Wojcik:

All right. Dr. James Conway, thank you so much for this information.

James Conway:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. Im Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.