Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Assembly Speaker Robin Vos and Assembly Minority Leader Gordon Hintz talk about the budget battle at the state Capitol. Bipartisan support for a loan program designed to train and bring minority teachers into the classroom, and results of the 2019 Kids Count Survey on the well-being of Wisconsin children. It’s “Here & Now” for June 21st.

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Frederica Freyberg:
Next week, the state Legislature is scheduled to vote on the Republican version of the state budget. Ahead of that action, Governor Tony Evers late this week addressed the public, calling on Republicans to, “Do the right thing,” and include expanded Medicaid and an increase in the gas tax.

Tony Evers:
Next week, they will take up the budget and they can still choose to do the right thing. Let’s remember, Republicans got to pick their voters. They got to draw the districts the way they wanted to. And I just add to whoever draws Wisconsin’s next maps, good luck in drawing districts that don’t include 70% of Wisconsinites who support Medicaid expansion, the 74% of Wisconsinites who want to see significant increases in special education funding, or even the 83% of Wisconsinites who believe medical marijuana should be legal. Let’s see if the legislators can listen and will listen to the people. Legislators have the opportunity to amend this budget, to do what the people of Wisconsin have asked us to do. I firmly believe that they — if they ignore the will of the people, they do it at their own peril. Once I see the entire budget, then I’ll make the decision on whether we veto an entire budget.

Frederica Freyberg:
The governor’s press conference preceded the release of a much anticipated decision this morning in Wisconsin’s high court. In a four to three decision, the state Supreme Court upheld the actions of Republican lawmakers during their December lame duck session. That session passed laws limiting the powers of the governor and state attorney general. The court dismissed the argument that the session was called unconstitutionally. In a statement released this morning, Governor Evers said, “Today’s decision is disappointing, and unfortunately, all too predictable,” he said. “It is based on a desired political outcome, not the plain meaning and text of the constitution. The people of Wisconsin deserve better than this.” Republican leaders, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald released a joint statement which said “The court upheld a previously non-controversial legislative practice used by both parties for decades to enact some of the most important laws in the state.” Another case challenging the lame duck session is pending before the high court. Two federal cases are also pending. Continuing now with the ongoing state budget battle, the potential that Governor Evers would veto the entire budget looms, as the Senate and Assembly are scheduled to vote on their version again next week. Earlier, I sat down with Assembly Speaker Robin Vos. I started by asking what kinds of changes to the Joint Finance version of the budget bill, if any, he expects during the floor debate.

Robin Vos:
So I’m very proud of the work that the Joint Finance Committee did. We know that they’ve gone through a very elaborate process. Governor Evers introduced the budget in February. We had listening sessions with over a thousand people attending. We did our own listening sessions all around the state. Thousands of people attended. We did a survey of the state. So I really feel like we’ve done a good job of listening. So the budget that the Joint Finance Committee has put together, I would say it’s 99.9% done. We always have some things that go through a technical process. We also are going to make sure we go through and guarantee that we can minimize the ability for line item vetoes to change our policy. So that will happen between when the budget is put out sometime late in the week and next we can vote on it, so our members can read the actual document. We know that it’s going to be considerably shorter than the ones that were done under Governor Walker because there’s almost no policy in the budget. So I think in a lot of ways, the budget is ready for prime time. I’m proud of what we have and hopefully it will be able to pass this next week.

Frederica Freyberg:
What are your members telling you?

Robin Vos:
Overall they like the budget. Everybody has concerns. You know, of course if Governor Walker was still in office, we would have a budget that looks dramatically different. We would have a different set of tax cuts. We would certainly spend less than we are under Governor Evers but we’ve accepted the fact that whether we like it or not, Tony Evers is the governor of Wisconsin. He had four priorities and we found a way to meet all of his priorities without the spending and the increases in taxes that he proposed.

Frederica Freyberg:
As you know, many conservatives are critical of the Republican version of the budget as spending and borrowing too much for raises taxes even and fees. What is your response to those concerns?

Robin Vos:
First of all, the budget goes up about the same amount as it did under Governor Walker so it’s not dramatically different. If you look at the four pillars as I said, we know Governor Evers wanted to have a dramatic expansion of welfare. We’re funding our healthcare system without doing that. He wanted to raise the gas tax and have it on automatic increases. We’re not doing that. We wanted to have money for schools in a way that we could sustain and afford, we’re doing that. And most importantly, we have an overall level of spending inside the budget that is sustainable because we are not doing all of the policy choices and the tax increases that he proposed.

Frederica Freyberg:
I don’t have to tell you that two Republican state senators have now said that they will vote no on this budget. Now several GOP senators held up the last budget. A time at which you referred to them as “terrorists” for that action. Do you think we’re going to be in the same place this time around?

Robin Vos:
I don’t think so. I mean the best thing is, our caucuses have been working very closely together. Senator Fitzgerald and I meet on a much more regular basis than we have in the past. I think we’re in sync as what our goals are. We know what we want to make sure is that we don’t expand welfare. We don’t raise taxes and we have a reasonable level of spending. If you remember in the last budget, Senator Craig voted against the Walker budget so I think it’s highly unlikely that there was any way he was going to vote for a budget no matter what we would do because he just wouldn’t vote for even Scott Walker’s budget. So I think people have to accept the fact we’re in divided government. I don’t like it but I think we have to find ways to get things done and our budget does that.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you spoken to Senator Fitzgerald as to whether or not he believes that he can hold this to two no-votes?

Robin Vos:
I’m very confident in Senator Fitzgerald’s abilities. I know that in our Assembly Republican caucus, I think we’re going to have near unanimity, if not every single person on the Republican side voting for the budget because, once again, cuts taxes, reasonable level of spending, invests in our priorities of healthcare and schools and we’re actually able to find a long term answer for beginning to fund the transportation system that we all know we’ve been talking about for almost a decade.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now you didn’t want to expand Medicaid or welfare, as you call it, for example, over your dead bodies, but what if Tony Evers takes his veto pen to the budget in a significant way over his signature priorities?

Robin Vos:
He has every right to do that. It’s a constitutional office, of course. The governor has the most powerful line item veto in the country. I have said continually that we have a budget that meets his priorities, albeit in a much more conservative way. So in divided government, nobody gets everything that they want. So if Tony Evers believes that somehow he is going to cow tow the Republican legislature into raising income taxes or expanding welfare, it is never going to happen. So hopefully he accepts that reality and we can work for a budget that all of us can agree on.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you met with him to talk about this?

Robin Vos:
We have not met in a couple weeks. So of course we’re happy to do that, but the priorities that we have set aren’t going to really change because we are not going to expend welfare. We’re not going to raise taxes.

Frederica Freyberg:
What is your message to him further?

Robin Vos:
Well, I think that the budget that we put together is one we can all rally around. Governor Evers’ priorities were focused on more money for special education, we did that. More money for education, we did that. More money for healthcare, we’ve done that. And fixing the damn roads as he says, and we’ve done that too. So if you look at the methodology that we’ve used, it’s conservative. It’s smaller government. It’s trying to have a much more productive long term answer than just raising taxes and expending welfare. So hopefully he would be able to look at that as other governors have done and say you can never get the entire loaf. We’ve accepted that and hopefully he can too.

Frederica Freyberg:
Speaker Robin Vos, thanks very much.

Robin Vos:
Thanks. I appreciate it Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
I spoke with Speaker Vos earlier. We’re joined now by the Assembly Minority Leader Democrat Gordon Hintz, who joins us from Oshkosh. Thank you for doing so.

Gordon Hintz:
Happy to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:
First, what is your reaction to the state Supreme Court ruling today upholding the lame duck legislation that limits the authority of the governor and attorney general?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, it was disappointing as was the actual lame duck session in itself. It’s a scar, really, on our democracy when you have a democratically-elected governor and attorney general who are undermined in terms of their powers before they’re even sworn in. And so maybe with this Supreme Court, it shouldn’t be a surprise but this is something that will be a stain on Wisconsin history for some time.

Frederica Freyberg:
I was going to ask even as other challenges to the lame duck laws are pending, in your mind, what are the implications of that legislation going forward?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I can tell you from the Legislature standpoint, it’s kind of created a toxic political environment. Again, before we even got started, it was clear that the Republican majority was going to do everything possible to thwart this governor and attorney general. Again, democratically-elected by the public. And it’s been consistent in terms of how they’ve operated on the budget and in other things. Obviously in the ability of the governor and attorney general to fulfill what the people elected them to do, the restriction of those powers do have real implications. And so the future decisions hopefully will go better, especially in federal court, than our rubber stamp Supreme Court at this point.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the state budget, there’s obviously a major disconnect between Republicans and the governor over items like Medicaid expansion and a gas tax hike. How does the governor in your mind get what he wants without vetoing the budget?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I think reminding Republicans that it’s not just a disconnect between Republicans and the governor, it’s really a disconnect between Republicans and the public. You have a governor who campaigned on issues. Who was elected on issues. Who said he wasn’t going to be about politics but he was going to invest in the priorities of the state. I think his budget addressed that from transportation to healthcare with the Medicaid expansion, to school funding. What the Republicans have done flies in the face of what we’ve seen public opinion, 70% in support of the Medicaid expansion. And yesterday at the press conference, he reminded folks that, you know, it’s not just about those issues. Part of being in the Legislature and being governor representing the public is being a good steward of those dollars and being financially responsible to maximize the benefit to the state but also the resources that we have. And compared to the governor’s budget, the current budget is such a missed opportunity and fails.

Frederica Freyberg:
I know that Tony Evers says that he has to see the final version before he decides about a full veto. Speaker Vos tells us it’s pretty much in the shape it’s going to be. Knowing what you know, what do you think the governor will do?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I think we can’t really say. It’s not just about — I mean, I don’t think they have the votes right now. We’ve heard there’s at least two votes in the Republican Senate not in support of the budget. And my guess is it will be a busy weekend as they try to solve things behind closed doors. So we can’t say until we see the final budget but it also depends on the form that it ultimately takes when it comes out of the Legislature. What kind of options are available to the governor to actually make improvements. And again, what are the pros and cons of either a full veto or a pretty significant vetoes of entire sections of the budget. I can tell you that there is large constituencies that are advocating for Medicaid expansion, who are calling for just that. But that being said, I trust Governor Evers to do what’s in the best interest of the public. Again he’s been that way throughout his career. He’s campaigned that way and he’s governed that way. And I really trust him to do what he can to make this the best deal for the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
Of all the things the Republican budget changed from the executive plan, what’s of most concern to you?

Gordon Hintz:
Sure, well, what’s most concerning is that the budget seems to be really good for Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota. It just came out yesterday that state taxpayers are going to pay more than a billion dollars in our tax money to those states so they can expand Medicaid expansion and use those resources to pay for those schools. We have a transportation plan that makes sure that we stick it just to Wisconsin drivers, even though 20% of gas tax revenues paid for by out of state people. So one, it’s who they are choosing to ultimately, you know, penalize and that’s Wisconsin residents. The second one is just the — not maximizing the available resources. Even if you have concerns about expanding Medicaid, the resources available to the state to pay for tax cuts, to pay for education, to fund the UW System which got butchered in this budget, you know, is just — it doesn’t make any sense from a fiscal standpoint or really a moral standpoint. And so if you look at the fact — with state resources, the Republican budget and the governor’s budget don’t spend too much differently, but it’s leaving more than a billion dollars on the table of that federal money which really is a missed opportunity.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Minority Leader Gordon Hintz, thanks very much.

Gordon Hintz:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
A student loan forgiveness program for minority school teachers all but dried up following limits to the program enacted two state budgets ago. In tonight’s inside look, a bipartisan effort to once again boost the Minority Teacher Loan Program, which completely forgives loans after four years of teaching, if certain requirements are met. Tonight, we talk with Connie Hutchinson, executive secretary of the Higher Education Aids Board, which administers the loan program. Thanks for being here.

Connie Hutchinson:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
What were the changes that so greatly reduced the number of education majors from taking part in this loan program?

Connie Hutchinson:
Well, the program prior to the changes, you were able to teach in a school district that had I believe it was 29% minority, and that included nearly 40 school districts around the state. The change made it so that you had to teach in the Milwaukee Public Schools in order to have the loan forgiven. Additionally, there had been about $259,000 in that budget for the Minority Teacher Loan and that was cut basically in half. So I think that those two changes in the 15-17 budget really affected how many people applied for the loan.

Frederica Freyberg:
What were the effects of that, then?

Connie Hutchinson:
Well, I think that people really — you know, you had — people who are living in a place such as, let’s say, Green Bay or Shawano. And they’re going to school in Green Bay or in Stevens Point, where they have teacher education programs. To be told that in order to have this be forgiven, you have to teach in the Milwaukee Public Schools, first of all, what if they’re not hired in the Milwaukee Public Schools? There are a lot of other options. A lot of times people are not comfortable moving either from a big city to a small city or a small city to a big city. So I think that really affected the program a lot.

Frederica Freyberg:
I read that in fact, last year only one student who was studying to become a teacher, availed themselves of the program.

Connie Hutchinson:
Yes, just one person applied for the loan. And I’m not sure why it dropped so low, but it is I think — you know, we don’t have that many loans available because of the cut in the budget. And again, people are not interested in being told you have to teach in a district when you’re not even sure you can get a position there.

Frederica Freyberg:
How many different school districts, like 40?

Connie Hutchinson:
Yes. And that was with 29%. Now, with 40% minority, that will open up a lot of school districts too. And I think that we will be attracting a lot more people to get this loan. Additionally, we’ll be reaching out to the schools of education because we work with the financial aid directors. They don’t know what the degrees are that the — the students that they’re helping, they don’t necessarily know what degree, but we will be reaching out to the schools of education to let them know about these good changes.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the aims of this Minority Student Loan Program, why is it important in your mind?

Connie Hutchinson:
Well, I think it’s very important that we see — our state is very diverse. And if you’re going to school and the only people that you see are people who are Caucasian. That doesn’t show the diversity of the state. People think it’s really important for people to see — I’ve been told that this will help minority students, especially, because they can see that they could go into a teaching profession because there are people that look like them. But it’s also important for all students to see that the diversity in the state is reflected not only in their communities but in their schools and in the people who teach them.

Frederica Freyberg:
How would this work exactly? How much student loan is forgiven? How do they get that?

Connie Hutchinson:
The students apply. And they have to be already in a teacher education program. So they have to be accepted. Then they can get up to $10,000 a year with a cap of $30,000. If they teach in the school district, I think it’s $5,000 a year that is forgiven, they can get all of that loan forgiven.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you feel as though there isn’t a lot of awareness about this program?

Connie Hutchinson:
I think the awareness dropped significantly after the changes were put in place. And also it was kind of confusing for the people who are doing the loans out in the schools, the financial aid professionals, because there was a big change. So it was difficult for them to really be — to, say, direct their students to take out these loans because you probably could get a job in Milwaukee. So that’s not a good way to talk to students about — good information for the financial aid directors to have.

Frederica Freyberg:
But again, this is kind of a bipartisan effort to boost this program.

Connie Hutchinson:
It is. It’s a total bipartisan effort. And I really appreciate Representatives Fields and Loudenbeck working together on this. They were the ones who brought it to our attention. We were not the ones who initiated the changes so having this as a bipartisan bill, I think, is very helpful in getting it passed. And also will help us to make sure that we get the correct information out there.

Frederica Freyberg:
We’ll be tracking it. Connie Hutchinson, thanks very much.

Connie Hutchinson:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Minority Teacher Loan Program affords loans to some 13 education majors annually. The annual Kids Count data book measures the health and well-being of children nationwide and in Wisconsin. In tonight’s look ahead, of course we would like to be number one across the board, but the overall rankings for Wisconsin don’t seem terrible. For example, children here rank 7th in the nation in economic well-being, 15th for education, and 14th for health. Children in Wisconsin rank 13th overall. But when the child well-being indicators are disaggregated by race, the picture gets much worse. Tonight, we hear from Erica Nelson, project director for Wisconsin Kids Count and Race to Equity. Thanks very much for being here.

Erica Nelson:
Thank you for having me. Good evening.

Frederica Freyberg:
So how do you regard the overall indicators, for example, 7th in the nation for economic well-being?

Erica Nelson:
Well, I think that that says that people can sort of feel good in the aggregate about where Wisconsin’s children are. However, I think that we can continue to do better. And that with the overall ranking for Kids Count for the state of Wisconsin at 13th, I think that we sort of get in a place of is that good enough for Wisconsin children or can we do better. So we need to sort of combat complacency. And again when we look at it with a disaggregated and racial equity lines, it’s a totally different story.

Frederica Freyberg:
And I want to get to that in a moment, but in terms of 15th for education. Again, that’s top 15, but you suggest that there are some pretty major issues around test scores for 4th and 8th grade.

Erica Nelson:
So for 4th grade reading proficiency, it’s 65% of children — white children in particular are not reading-proficient and then those numbers skyrocket when you look at race. There’s this phrase that says, you know, you learn to read from zero to third grade and from third grade on, you read to learn. So it’s absolutely critical to be there. 8th grade math proficiency, we’re also struggling there. We’re doing fairly well in graduation rates. Failure to graduate is only 11% for the state, but I still think we can do better.

Frederica Freyberg:
Some of scores are pretty stunning considering Wisconsin has always prided itself on its public education system.

Erica Nelson:
Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:
So, getting to this, what are the numbers like for children of color in Wisconsin?

Erica Nelson:
Well, I mean, I think there’s focuses like child poverty, for instance, which is a really important indicator for future well-being. African-American children are — 36% are poor, 33% of Latino children are poor, and 33% of American Indian children are poor and 26% of Latino children are poor. The rate for African-American child poverty is almost four times that of whites. And then like I said a minute ago, the third grade — or fourth grade reading proficiency for African-American kids, 86% are not reading at a proficient level and it’s fairly similar for Latino children as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
And how else does this — do these indicators kind of trickle down to the well-being of these children?

Erica Nelson:
Well, I think when you’re not equipped because you don’t have the educational tools that you need to be successful throughout the rest your academic career, that presents a challenge. And I also think that children in poverty is actually a reflection of larger families, obviously, in poverty. And you need a family that is economically stable, has access to affordable housing, transportation, and healthcare in order to support a young child into their future.

Frederica Freyberg:
So I was about to ask you what the prescriptions are to try to reverse some of these trends and you just mentioned some, but are there specifics?

Erica Nelson:
I think that we really need to focus as a state on targeted policies. And by that, I mean targeted with a racial equity lens. So there’s economic policies that we can think about like expansion of the earned income tax credit, creating a more livable wage and raising the minimum wage. We haven’t done that in the state in over a decade. There are prescriptions about investments in resources and public education towards the distinct districts that are the most in need so that we can level the playing field in particular for kids of color. And expanding healthcare access, I think, because having healthy babies and healthy mothers during — for prenatal care and the like, actually yields greater outcomes because there’s disparities in low birth weights for African-American children as well. So these are some of the key focuses.

Frederica Freyberg:
How has this trended over the years in Wisconsin?

Erica Nelson:
That’s an interesting question. I think that when we’re looking at the aggregate for the Kids Count, we’re sort of sitting in the same spot. I would argue that there’s a little bit of improvement but not much with respect to child poverty for kids of color. There’s a lot more room for us to make progress. And I think there’s progress overall in housing burden costs but when you look at that disaggregated, African-Americans, 55% are spending more than a third of their income towards housing. So I would say that in tiny places, yes, we’re getting better when you look at it but we have a lot of room to grow when you look at it with a racial equity lens.

Frederica Freyberg:
This data book comes out every year and it seems like every year, we’re talking about the very same issues. How frustrating does that get for people like you?

Erica Nelson:
I think it’s frustrating but I also think that every year provides us an opportunity to talk about what we can do. And given that, you know, we’re in a budget cycle right now, there are targeted investments that can be made to address some of these issues. And I think it provides us an opportunity to talk about how systems and institutions and structures are kind of reinforcing these inequities and what we can do to address them. And also just the opportunity to talk about the importance of looking at things with a racial equity lens in the state. So while it’s frustrating, I appreciate the opportunity to bring it up.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Erica Nelson, thanks very much.

Erica Nelson:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
At the Capitol this week, a retirement sendoff for the ages. Retiring Supreme Court Justice Shirley Abrahamson was honored in the rotunda by current and former public officials. Among them, former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Janine Geske, who called Abrahamson a, “national judicial example.” The outgoing justice is the longest-serving member in the court’s history. She will be replaced in August by Brian Hagedorn. Next week, full coverage of the state budget as it makes its way through the Legislature. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided in part by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.